View Poll Results: Made in Japan: Big deal?

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  • Yes

    114 67.06%
  • No

    25 14.71%
  • Not sure

    6 3.53%
  • Don't care

    25 14.71%
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Thread: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Been to a Toyota Production Plant in Toyota City, Nagoya. The QC is jaw dropping. That place doesn't look like a factory. It looks like a huge mall.

    To me, there will always be ppl who insist that subcontracted countries produce just as good stocks. But when ppl look at defected batches of goods, tech problems, recalls, they attack the parent company, and rarely (if ever) question where the goods are made. Not to say MIJ products are perfect of course. But in my lifespan, the incidences are far lower than those made in most other parts of Asia, especially for electronic goods.

  2. #22
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken
    To me, there will always be ppl who insist that subcontracted countries produce just as good stocks. But when ppl look at defected batches of goods, tech problems, recalls, they attack the parent company, and rarely (if ever) question where the goods are made.
    Isn't that what the brand name is for? to maintain the quality regardless of where it is made, if defect is found the onus falls back to the brand owner. Don't get your point really... are you saying that we should not blame the parent company and complain directly to the subcontracted countries? does not make sense to me.

    If I buy Toyota, then I expect Toyota to recall the defects or make good all the defects regardless of where they are made, period.

    ../azul123

  3. #23

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    The point of this thread is to ask whether to a consumer whether "Made in Japan" matters? And my point is "Yes it does"? I know it's implicit, but I thought that was obvious enough.

    I'm not in disagreement that the onus of a defect batch is on the brand owner. That has never been my point. My point is, refering back to the thread, look at the country of origin - which is a determinent of the level of QC. Would you be able to discern the extrapolation I have made?

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123
    Isn't that what the brand name is for? to maintain the quality regardless of where it is made, if defect is found the onus falls back to the brand owner. Don't get your point really... are you saying that we should not blame the parent company and complain directly to the subcontracted countries? does not make sense to me.

    If I buy Toyota, then I expect Toyota to recall the defects or make good all the defects regardless of where they are made, period.

    ../azul123

  4. #24
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken
    The point of this thread is to ask whether to a consumer whether "Made in Japan" matters? And my point is "Yes it does"? I know it's implicit, but I thought that was obvious enough.

    I'm not in disagreement that the onus of a defect batch is on the brand owner. That has never been my point. My point is, refering back to the thread, look at the country of origin - which is a determinent of the level of QC. Would you be able to discern the extrapolation I have made?
    Ok, noted.. I agree.

    OT abit. Some companies are "maximising" "made in Japan" by now stating "assembled in Japan". Example, finished products could be made is Thailand but put together in Japan and thus assembled in Japan.

    With FTA... these things happen quite a lot and my take is... less and less products are fully produced in one country anymore, parts and pieces are now being done everywhere.

    So, really QA falls back to brand owner regardless of where it is made. As compared to original thread when whole production from start to finish made in Japan, I will agree their QA is .

    Just wanted to draw correlation between the two.

    ../azul123

  5. #25

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Totally agree. The branding process has become a profiteering process. As a consumer, it should not matter which country produces the good, since I would tend to rely on the brand name to establish my faith and make my decision to purchase. Plus the "assembled in" tag is misleading in nature. The correlation undoubtedly exists. I also feel the need to bind the integrity of branding with QC, irregardless of country of produce

    Sorry to OT as well Just wanna clarify my stand on the whole issue.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    The Japanese are not known as 'King of Marketing' for nothing.

    Quality comes at a price I believe.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  7. #27

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Actually
    I have had a series of camera failures all MADE IN JAPAN. I was told the
    subcontract was to blame but 'consumers don't understand'.

    Recently my camera failed while it was brand new causing me lots of
    grief... due to a subcon problem... however I asked if the subcon problem
    has been rectified.. I was told I was the first to notice the problem.

    Which means that there will be thousands of EQUALLY DEFECTIVE PARTS in
    thousands of these cameras.

    In fact , I have a series of failures from this very famous brand brand and the failures seem to be consistent with Quality Controlled Failures.. since 1 part was designed in a
    flawed manner, all these parts would be flawed thanks to the QC and ISO9XXXXX

    So do I still trust made in Japan? I am not sure now as even Made in Japan has
    a lot of parts made in China. My Olympus E-300 has so many chemical stains on
    it BRAND NEW. I choose the best out of 4 before I was satisfied the least of all
    evils. I showed the problem to the Olmpus SG rep, he says no one takes photos
    like that.. sure enough the stains appeared on macro shots. It was made in China.

    At the end of the day, all this is a gamble.. Some countries are worst for quality
    some countries have very good QC but unskilled workers.. The Japanese culture of
    jobs for life /loyalty are already dying out rapidly.. so who would care if the next manufacturing stage screws up?

    You can have good products made in China and bad products made in Japan
    we all need to pick up the grapevine .. not too many people want to share the
    problem with camera's publicly.


    The best is try not to be the first .
    Allan

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Well, if you have lots of $$$ & don't know where to spend. Be the first, but not me.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    I've worked for Jap and non-Jap company in the manufacturing line. Same industry but the QC and strictness of implementation really differs between the two.

    I remember having "culture shock" when i first joined the non-Jap company. Seeing the way the products are handled almost sent me into fits. Actions which confirm lead to immediate dismissal when done in the Jap company. My colleagues who went to our Jap plant said the QC is lagi strict there.

    Well, as you've guessed....it's a dog's life working in the Jap company.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Yeah dude! I'm working in one now.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    The Japanese are not known as 'King of Marketing' for nothing.

    Quality comes at a price I believe.
    hahaha remind me of a statement my prof said........

    "in US, people would always deliver buggy products just to make it in time for launch date... After that when consumer complains, they will give all sort of patches and fixes and updates. As for the japanese, they will make sure the problem is "bug-free" when they release. Unfortunately, when there is a major problem, nobody knows what the hell is going on.... so too bad for consumers, they have to live with it."

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    i believe that the workmanship and quality is better.
    but if parts are made in japan and assembled in some other countries (which is almost always the case now due to high labour costs in japan), that is still acceptable.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    This reminds me of what the Russian astronaut said in the show "Armageddon" :No matter it is American space station or Russian Space station, they are all Made in Taiwan"...

    I thin even the set is so called made in jpn, the parts inside are not however, the assembly part is important. Will still try to go for Made in Japan if possible.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    If I am paying S$2000 and above for a DSLR, I will make sure it's made in Japan.
    Can you imagine if you were to get a Canon 20D or Nikon 2HS and realised it wasn't made in Japan?

  15. #35

    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstone
    If I am paying S$2000 and above for a DSLR, I will make sure it's made in Japan.
    Can you imagine if you were to get a Canon 20D or Nikon 2HS and realised it wasn't made in Japan?
    Why not? On our sunny island, we get our Alfa Romeos from Thailand, BMWs from South Africa. Nowadays even Toyotas are made in Thailand. I'm sure there're lots of others who can add to the list whereby we actually pay for the brand, and not the country of production. Despite the high price we pay.

    Used to be the fact that we are paying for the precision engineering and workmanship. Now we are merely paying for the brand.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Ya, but this is a fact that companies want to cut down on labor cost so what to do?

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Vitacon filters have "Made in Japan" printed on their boxes. How many people choose Hoya's?

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by West_ray
    i believe if d70 isnt made in thailand .. the cost obviously would be higher ...

    to me, as long as it can bring down the cost, i wouldnt mind if it's made elsewhere ...
    hahah...

    Its The company trying to get more profit. Price of the camera can stilll be the same. The cost of parts and labour cost is probably only a portion of what you are paying...To maximise profit...hence the low cost location...

    rgds,
    sulhan

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken
    Why not? On our sunny island, we get our Alfa Romeos from Thailand, BMWs from South Africa. Nowadays even Toyotas are made in Thailand. I'm sure there're lots of others who can add to the list whereby we actually pay for the brand, and not the country of production. Despite the high price we pay.

    Used to be the fact that we are paying for the precision engineering and workmanship. Now we are merely paying for the brand.
    Just go across to JB and you can see Merc assembly plant...

    rgds,
    sulhan

  20. #40
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Made in Japan: Does it matter to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstone
    If I am paying S$2000 and above for a DSLR, I will make sure it's made in Japan.
    Can you imagine if you were to get a Canon 20D or Nikon 2HS and realised it wasn't made in Japan?

    Just a thot....given what you say S$2000 and above. BUt what if making it IN JAPAN will nowcost you S$4,000 and above for the D70s for example. Would you still want to buy it or have Nikon priced you out of the market of a DSLR?

    The days ( daze ) of that kind of ideology is over at least 2-3 decade ago. Back then in my days...anything Made in Japan was lousy...it has to be Made in the USA or Some country in Europe.! Look at the cars brands...there was a time Japanese car is about being cheap ( and it show in the use of material and features in them) but today some of the best japanese brands are giving European and US car brands a big fight for the pie and beating them at their game. Japan has come a long way and so have other countries or should I add some countries has even gone 'downward' in terms of quality.

    The famous Apple IPOD is made in China. Not all the main components of a Boeing 747 is made in USA. Nike for years like Addidas has been made in South America, Taiwan, Malaysia,China ..etc(including their high end shoes models). At the end of the day it is about pride in your products as a brand owner. To protect your brand and keep producing the best products with the best equipment and material..it is about QC, being discerning about where you outsource for parts, material, services, manufacturing processes...and that included taking advantage of any countries special economic policies, taxation, politics and skill level of those workers in that country...all this, to bring you a product that you can afford for whatever class of equipment quality you are aiming for.

    If a D70 can be built to the same quality and spec tolerance both in Japan and Thailand then why not do it in Thailand? Take advantage of the cheaper labour cost, lower cost of living standards, tax incentives and most importantly gain more profit from the cost saving and sales of the product to us. A factory worker in Tokyo Japan might cost $2000 per month while a person of similar skill in Thailand might cost $800. If the work is basically assembling and running semi or fully automated machineries to put the D70 together..transporting those machines to Thailand and training the local workforce to put those D70 together is as easy as in Japn BUT alot cheaper. In this modern world which is getting smaller, products made these day definitely contain parts outsource from all over the world and brought to one place to be put together....so long as it meet their specification, quality and most importantly, increase saving & profit.

    Why some high end stuff are still made in their country of origin? Simple...small production quantity which means its more cost effective to produce them locally as oppose to oversea factories. Using high end material and components which they might not be buying in bulk for better price control as oppose to more mass marketing high volume products ( Nikon sells alot more D70s then D2Xs etc), higher price products mean it can justify higher skill/salary demand (in Japan for example) ... and yes there is also the marketing and physcological advantage of using that 'old fashion' thinking that some of you still harbour regarding paying more if it's "Made in Japan"

    All this and more... when you think it over is why you end up paying a high(or higher premium) price for a high end lens. This is just a basis idealogy..expand on it and you will find, it really does not matter where a big brand name makes a product geographically. Any company who wants to keep their brand strong and uphold their reputation will ensure it is always well made. Well....at least to whatever price you are willing to pay or what category of products you buy. eg..entry level, intermediate to advance high class components..etc.
    If tomorrow for whatever reason, Nikon in Thailand decides to shut down it's plant, take all the machineries and material back to Japan and carry on producing those D70 and lens ...do you think now those D70s and lens are far more superior just because they are now made in Japan??? I don't think so...but I am sure...it will COST ME MORE given the standard of living there and higher cost of running a business.


    Just my two cents.....
    Last edited by sammy888; 8th September 2005 at 06:18 PM.

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