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Thread: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

  1. #1

    Question Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    As per the title, have you ever gave a thought about it? I understand that many people do not care because they think that they will not live to see to that.

    As we all know, buying a HDB is like renting an apartment from the government with 99 years lease tenure.

    Singapore is celebrating its 50 years birthday this year. In another 50 years time, a least 5-10% of the HDB flats would have matured or expired in terms of lease especially those mature estates.

    I have asked some experts' opinions on - what will happen to these flats? Really zero value since the tenure is up?

    There are different views. First of all, some said that HDB will enbloc those HDB flats before they reach the 99 years lease, maybe when the flats are 30-40 years old. In this way, existing flat owners will be compensated; and they can take the money to buy another HDB flats; and this cycle will carry on and on.

    Another view is that HDB will lapse the lease term, that is zero value. Existing owners will have zero value. HDB will reprocess these flats, either demolish them and rebuild new ones, or renovate the flats (subject to struture approval from BCA give that these flats are already 99 years old) and resell to new buyers.

    What are your views?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    This is ever-changing Singapore. Not many buildings will last 99 years, especially the ubiquitous HDB flats. Those cash-for-deeds(whatever they call it) policies were formulated to "repossess" flats even well before their tenure is up. So if you asked me what will happen to HDB flats after 99 years? I'll bet my last dollar that 99% will not last that long, kept for the conserved ones.

  3. #3
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    TS... you think you/we can live (you couldn't have got the HDB in birth) or the building is still structurally safe after 99yrs ??

    Most likely the block will be torn down and make way for a newer designed HDB flat that will replace it for another near 99yrs. If you are still alive (or have brought a resale that is near the end its 99yrs leases)... most likely HDB will give you/we priority in your/our new/next HDB unit and 'buy' back the remaining lease of your/our Unit from you/us...
    Last edited by diver-hloc; 13th January 2015 at 07:31 AM.

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Buy only freehold landed properties with everything you have got so that ungrateful children have something to fight over.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 13th January 2015 at 07:58 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    If they decide to take it away, freehold or not means very little.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    are SIT flats in tiong bahru under the same 99 yr lease?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Those flats were built in the 1930s so if they are on a 99-year lease, the tenure will end soon. However, some of those pre war blocks were gazetted by URA for conservation. I am already seeing some of those units turned into retail shops. They should be around for some time to come.
    Last edited by Kit; 13th January 2015 at 11:27 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    On a somewhat related note:

    http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realti...ref_map=%5B%5D

    A 242 sq. feet unit is sold for HK$3.85m. (SGD663K, USD500K). After some simple calculation, it's the total 32 years of salary of a normal HK person, namely, almost your whole working life from your graduation to your retirement. SGD$2,740 psf. Are we getting there?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    What is the loan repayment period? Perhaps they can consider handing the loan to their kids.

  10. #10

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    No HDB flat will be standing until 99years. Structurally and mortgage point of view, its not viable.

    In SG, any property, HDB or private, with less than 60yrs old lease, bank will not lend money for buyer to buy. So this already creates a problem for old properties. There is no market value unless buyers can pay in full cash.

    Structurally, there will be problems with old properties.

    So who will buy old HDB without bank loan and comes with structural problems? The group of buyers will become very small. And unless the flat is under some special conservation Program, no one will look at an old HDB flat

    Thirdly, garment is very smart. The land that the old block is sitting on is worth millions. So why should they keep the old block sitting for too long? Garment will tear it down, sell the land to private developers for millions. Or garment will build new BTO flats and sell at higher prices.

    SG land is very precious and limited. No old property will sit there for too long

    And the above applies to private condo as well, not just HDB. As long as its leasehold, garment will do something about it when right time comes.
    Last edited by donut88; 13th January 2015 at 01:02 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Those flats were built in the 1930s so if they are on a 99-year lease, the tenure will end soon. However, some of those pre war blocks were gazetted by URA for conservation. I am already seeing some of those units turned into retail shops. They should be around for some time to come.
    i dont trust ura, look at china town, does it look like china town?
    Objection !!!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    i dont trust ura, look at china town, does it look like china town?
    As far as the government is concerned, conservation means it's going to be retained and be turned into a money making machine. Whether it looks like what it used to be or what you and me would like it to be is secondary.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    On a somewhat related note:

    http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realti...ref_map=%5B%5D

    A 242 sq. feet unit is sold for HK$3.85m. (SGD663K, USD500K). After some simple calculation, it's the total 32 years of salary of a normal HK person, namely, almost your whole working life from your graduation to your retirement. SGD$2,740 psf. Are we getting there?
    Hmmm... Was this a private apartment? Unless it's public housing, don't think it's very related. I would think private apartments are pretty out of reach for average folks in most cities. Anyway, according to this post, we have surpassed $2740psf for pte apts

    The most expensive shoebox ever sold was a unit at Robinson Suites that was sold for $1.68m, or $3,399psf. The smallest shoebox ever sold was a mere 258 sq ft (the size of two and a half carpark lots) at Suites @ Guillemard.

    https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market.../shoebox-units
    It sounds like the majority in Shatin District live in public housing:

    Today, about 65% of the district's population live in public rental housing, housing under Hong Kong's Tenants Purchase Scheme, or Home Ownership Scheme.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Ownership_Scheme
    And they seem to be restarting their HDB-like scheme soon:

    Nearly 50,000 Hongkongers flocked to get information on some 2,000 Home Ownership Scheme flats yesterday - the first day it was on offer - after a decade-long halt to the policy and at a time when the private market is out of reach for many.

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/a...home-ownership
    Last edited by kandinsky; 13th January 2015 at 05:08 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    This is ever-changing Singapore. Not many buildings will last 99 years, especially the ubiquitous HDB flats. Those cash-for-deeds(whatever they call it) policies were formulated to "repossess" flats even well before their tenure is up. So if you asked me what will happen to HDB flats after 99 years? I'll bet my last dollar that 99% will not last that long, kept for the conserved ones.
    As stated in my original posting, it is perceived that HDB will reprocess those HDB flats which are 30-40 years from exiting owners. Compensate them and they will buy another newer HDB flats. Those old flats shall be demolished to make way for new BTOs or sell to private developers. This cycle will continue on and on.

    I guess that most people would go along this line that there won't be any super old HDB flats around.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    As far as the government is concerned, conservation means it's going to be retained and be turned into a money making machine. Whether it looks like what it used to be or what you and me would like it to be is secondary.
    This is always the case. No money, no honey.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    No HDB flat will be standing until 99years. Structurally and mortgage point of view, its not viable.

    In SG, any property, HDB or private, with less than 60yrs old lease, bank will not lend money for buyer to buy. So this already creates a problem for old properties. There is no market value unless buyers can pay in full cash.

    Structurally, there will be problems with old properties.

    So who will buy old HDB without bank loan and comes with structural problems? The group of buyers will become very small. And unless the flat is under some special conservation Program, no one will look at an old HDB flat

    Thirdly, garment is very smart. The land that the old block is sitting on is worth millions. So why should they keep the old block sitting for too long? Garment will tear it down, sell the land to private developers for millions. Or garment will build new BTO flats and sell at higher prices.

    SG land is very precious and limited. No old property will sit there for too long

    And the above applies to private condo as well, not just HDB. As long as its leasehold, garment will do something about it when right time comes.
    I guess that most people will think along this line. This means that your HDB flats will never have zero value because the government won't take back your HDB flats upon 99 years lease term is up. If the government take back your HDB flats when they are around 40 years old, you will receive some money (based on market valuation or some kind of formula) so that you can use the money to buy the next flats.

  17. #17

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    This model will work if the country is growing and there is need for space. But if there is decline and land price drops, then govt or developers will not buy back at a premium.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Have you ever thought what will happen to your HDB flat after 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    I guess that most people will think along this line. This means that your HDB flats will never have zero value because the government won't take back your HDB flats upon 99 years lease term is up. If the government take back your HDB flats when they are around 40 years old, you will receive some money (based on market valuation or some kind of formula) so that you can use the money to buy the next flats.
    let me tell you, you know the HDB being en-bloc opposite zouk (zion rd). The garman do not pay the same as market evaluation but below instead. The garman tell the existing owner that they are being relocated with newly build HDB but has to pay an additional sum. So if the age of the owner is about 40-50 with no children to support, imagine they gt to work and pay of the outstanding sum or they can choose to move to a more out of town location with cheaper and smaller HDB. We singaporean got no say unless you are rich and well off.
    Last edited by undercoverone; 14th January 2015 at 12:12 PM.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by undercoverone View Post

    let me tell you, you know the HDB being en-bloc opposite zouk (zion rd). The garman do not pay the same as market evaluation but below instead. The garman tell the existing owner that they are being relocated with newly build HDB but has to pay an additional sum. So if the age of the owner is about 40-50 with no children to support, imagine they gt to work and pay of the outstanding sum or they can choose to move to a more out of town location with cheaper and smaller HDB. We singaporean got no say unless you are rich and well off.
    Well, land is leasehold. It belongs to ah gong. Ah gong has no obligation to pay market value

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