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Thread: Je Suis Charlie

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Je Suis Charlie

    More than 1,000 French nationals have gathered in Sydney's Martin Place in tribute to the victims of the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris.


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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    http://mic.com/articles/107926/one-t...bout-terrorism

    "Muslim shooter = entire religion guilty

    Black shooter = entire race guilty

    White shooter = mentally troubled lone wolf"

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    http://mic.com/articles/107926/one-t...bout-terrorism
    "Muslim shooter = entire religion guilty
    Black shooter = entire race guilty
    White shooter = mentally troubled lone wolf"
    Your point being? Please provide context or refrain from dropping 'few liners' here, especially when it is about very sensitive topics. Do pay attention to the forum guidelines.
    EOS

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    One thing is for certain we have many groups of people all over the face of Earth who are protesting something or another which seems to me to not be a very healthy proposition. We are living in crazy times bros!

    No man is spared his sinning self sometimes...regardless of his skin color, ethnicity, nationality, or whatever it may be.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 13th January 2015 at 01:06 PM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

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    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    http://mic.com/articles/107926/one-t...bout-terrorism

    "Muslim shooter = entire religion guilty

    Black shooter = entire race guilty

    White shooter = mentally troubled lone wolf"
    Please light a candle and pray for the innocent victims.

  6. #6
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Your point being? Please provide context or refrain from dropping 'few liners' here, especially when it is about very sensitive topics. Do pay attention to the forum guidelines.
    The article (supposedly) exposes the inconsistency with which violence is covered in the main stream media, at least in the West - "the terms we (in the West) use to describe the violent actions of men are incredibly racialized."

    In the positive sense, it is alerting readers of the stereotyping that should not be there.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 13th January 2015 at 01:39 PM.

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    The article (supposedly) exposes the inconsistency with which violence is covered in the main stream media, at least in the West.
    I sort of hate to say it...but I tend to agree with a lot of what the article is saying but perhaps it is a little sensational and provocative. It is really hard to say who is to blame for all of this brain washing hogwash we are fed most of the time. At least that is how it seems where I am. They put just enough truth in it to make it sell and then the mass public buys it hook line and sinker.

    It is a great tragedy these events in France. There are many great tragedies in our world nowadays.

    Should we mind our own business or should we help in someway? What does one do to change these terrible things?
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 13th January 2015 at 01:48 PM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

  8. #8
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    I sort of hate to say it...but I tend to agree with a lot of what the article is saying but perhaps it is a little sensational and provocative. It is really hard to say who is to blame for all of this brain washing hogwash we are fed most of the time. At least that is how it seems where I am. They put just enough truth in it to make it sell and then the mass public buys it hook line and sinker.
    Already in the 1930's the German writer Kurt Tucholsky recommended reading at least three different newspapers, once from each political spectrum. This way the reader can form his own opinion and it becomes obvious which paper emphasizes or drops certain aspects or entire events / topics. Today we have even more sources to compare news and information. Do we do it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    It is a great tragedy these events in France. There are many great tragedies in our world nowadays.
    Should we mind our own business or should we help in someway? What does one do to change these terrible things?
    Few of us get the opportunity to appear on stage in important events and few of these big events actually have a noticeable impact. It is the wishful thinking of humans that a single action / single hero can really turn around the table.
    The phrase "Think global, act local" applies, imho. We all can spot behaviour and prejudices in our immediate neighborhood that can lead to such tragedies. I know about people who welcome the weird anti-immigrant demonstrations happening in Germany right now. I challenge this thinking and try to cut through the demagogic rubbish that sits in their minds. Because this rubbish sounds shockingly similar to what people shouted in the early 1930s in Germany.. History must not repeat.
    EOS

  9. #9

    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Killing is wrong, and deliberately provocative behavior is foolish.
    Last edited by zaren; 13th January 2015 at 11:31 PM.

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    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by zaren View Post
    Killing is wrong, and deliberately provocative behavior is foolish.


    Freedom of speach does not mean you can say whatever you want. Being hurt by a remark does not permit you to kill. When 2 extreme meet, it is war. If both got to struggle to find the next meal and drink, then there is. O problem to start with.

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Freedom of speach does not mean you can say whatever you want. Being hurt by a remark does not permit you to kill. When 2 extreme meet, it is war. If both got to struggle to find the next meal and drink, then there is. O problem to start with.
    From a friend: "Freedom of speech means I can say whatever I want - nice or true or otherwise - and you cannot touch me."

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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    From a friend: "Freedom of speech means I can say whatever I want - nice or true or otherwise - and you cannot touch me."

    Freedom of Speech must comes with Responsibility of the Speech... if your 'speech' start/cause death/hurt/war...

    As the saying goes, ability to do something... doesn't mean you should...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Freedom of Speech must comes with Responsibility of the Speech... if your 'speech' start/cause death/hurt/war...

    As the saying goes, ability to do something... doesn't mean you should...
    My friend's argument - "there cannot be limits to freedom - that's an oxymoron."

    Yes, "ability to do something doesn't mean you should" - but that decision (by my friend's argument - and yes, I had a long argument with him over FB) is entirely with the speaker.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Let's not forget the cultural context. In France and many western countries the freedom of speech is an achievement of the political revolutions which were triggered the the oppressive kings and whatever tyrants were on the throne. To speak without fear is a freedom. This freedom has an important role in these societies.
    In Asia with its own culture and history this looks different and I understand that this concept causes irritations. But then again: let's accept and respect the cultural diversity, although we might have a different opinion about it.
    One thing should be clear to all of us: different opinions never justify violence. We all have the freedom to ignore, not to watch, not to listen.
    EOS

  15. #15

    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    My friend's argument - "there cannot be limits to freedom - that's an oxymoron."

    Yes, "ability to do something doesn't mean you should" - but that decision (by my friend's argument - and yes, I had a long argument with him over FB) is entirely with the speaker.
    it works both ways. the cartoonists were exercising their freedom to draw. the killers were exercising their freedom to avenge their prophet.
    sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

    if everyone in the world exercised their freedom to do or say anything they want, there will be total anarchy.
    that's why there's such a much maligned and outmoded concept called "civilised behaviour".
    Last edited by zaren; 15th January 2015 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    My friend's argument - "there cannot be limits to freedom - that's an oxymoron."

    Yes, "ability to do something doesn't mean you should" - but that decision (by my friend's argument - and yes, I had a long argument with him over FB) is entirely with the speaker.

    There IS and MUST, be a limit to 'Freedom'.

    If my 'FREEDOM' to do as I like affect Your 'FREEDOM' and well being ??

    What if my free speech/action/ideas lead to genocide ?? There is enough example in History...

    * Hitler's hate speech against the Jew...
    * Hutu genocide of Tutsi in Rwandan...
    * ISIS believed in their 'God' given rights to force girls, that are non-believer, into Sex Slaves...

    You (and your 'friend') have, of course, the right to think and said as you wish... but should also be ready to take responsibility of the outcome...

    Edz Ello (the Filipino nurse at TTSH)... why Singaporean get angry... if its his right to free speech ?? Or that fellow (can't remember his name) that in his Facebook, said taking MRT Train leave a stink on him and his son... did anyone here proclaim he has the right to said so....

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    did anyone here proclaim he has the right to said so....
    Old wise saying in the USA -

    You can't fix stupid.



    Even the big holy is weighing in and he says there are limits on free expression.

    http://news.yahoo.com/pope-charlie-h...121639260.html
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 15th January 2015 at 11:11 PM.
    Expand your mind or get left behind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Let's not forget the cultural context. In France and many western countries the freedom of speech is an achievement of the political revolutions which were triggered the the oppressive kings and whatever tyrants were on the throne. To speak without fear is a freedom. This freedom has an important role in these societies.
    In Asia with its own culture and history this looks different and I understand that this concept causes irritations. But then again: let's accept and respect the cultural diversity, although we might have a different opinion about it.
    One thing should be clear to all of us: different opinions never justify violence. We all have the freedom to ignore, not to watch, not to listen.
    Yeah true. But then again, freedom comes with a cost. No one should have the thinking that he can say or do anything he likes and gets away with it.

  19. #19
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Je Suis Charlie

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Yeah true. But then again, freedom comes with a cost. No one should have the thinking that he can say or do anything he likes and gets away with it.
    There is a difference between saying / drawing / printing something (where people have the choice to look the other way / ignore it) and enforcing one's views violently onto others resulting in their death. The gunmen obviously didn't recognize this difference, similar to many others sailing under the same flag or sitting in the desert trying to setup some fancy medieval state.
    Secondly (but I suspect this point is lost anyway on many fanatics): the cartoons depicted questionable behaviour and views of followers of all religions, sects and other ways of thinking. It was food for thoughts, but heavily spiced and and heated up. The prophet and other characters were only used as 'vessels' for the message. An intellectual dialog over 3 pages published in a weekly magazine wouldn't have such a reach. Pictures and punchlines are still one of the most effective ways to drive home a message. Even local newspapers use this form.
    I'm glad to see that many people in the world recognize these two points and are able to differentiate between messenger and message, can reflect peacefully about critical voices and can have a verbal discourse about the points raised. Because that's what needs to be done.
    EOS

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    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default

    Not justifying sympathizing with anyone or anything but Both sides are paying the price for their beliefs

    Push a button long enough and it will go BOOM one day
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

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