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Thread: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

  1. #1

    Default "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    ...I love debacle even more!!

    TODAY Newspaper, 26 August 2005

    THE bold suggestion by reader Wilson Wong ("Time to replace marriage with a cohabitation contract?", Aug 23) that the physical element in fidelity can be decoupled from the emotional has generated the controversy he predicted it would.

    Also predictable, but most disappointing, was that none of the men whose reactions were published had any stomach to address the far more significant point made by the same reader — that marriage offers nothing to Singapore men.

    Sexist double-standards apply even before marriage.

    Women are seen as savvy for insisting that prospective husbands must earn enough to foot the bills, never mind that this reflects a materialistic, selfish and sexist mindset. Men who want wives who are docile are, on the other hand, derided for being insecure and sexist.

    Upon marriage, men are expected to be the main providers. Naturally, then, the bigger share of nurturing and care-giving should fall on women.

    Yet, men have had to put up with a female chauvinistic ideology that "spins" this division of labour as a manifestation of the oppression of women by men.

    A man's role in providing is easily quantifiable, in terms of dollars and cents, with women having ready recourse in the form of the maintenance summons.

    What, on the other hand, can a man do if his spouse is an indifferent wife or mother? What can he do if his spouse is seldom interested in physical contact but demands fidelity as a matter of right?

    Beyond filing for divorce, Singapore men can do absolutely nothing.

    Filing for divorce isn't easy for men, as the system and society are too ready to blame our gender for the breakdown of marriages. Given the general conditioning by female chauvinistic influences to see men as rogues, will such complaints by men get a fair hearing?

    Our division of matrimonial assets in divorce is sexist and unfair towards men.

    Wives are primary care-givers and secondary providers, while men are main providers and secondary care-givers. In deciding on the division of matrimonial assets, the woman's financial contributions are rightly considered.

    However, even the most indifferent wife and mother will be able to rely on a virtual presumption by the Courts that she had made substantial non-financial contributions.

    The point is, both spouses have borne the stress and sacrifice in discharging their roles, so why should a wife be awarded a premium for being the primary care-giver, when the husband gets none for faithfully discharging his role as main provider?

    And for all the talk about asking men to do more housework, a husband who has done just that will have a hard time proving it in court.

    The practice of almost automatically awarding sole custody of any child of the marriage to the wife is also sexist, outdated and unfair to men.

    The bond formed with a child by living with him or her daily is likely to be a lot closer than anything achievable with access only on weekends, no matter how hard a man tries. Effectively, divorce means that a man loses his children to his wife.

    The much-welcome decision by a High Court judge to award joint custody will hopefully portend a more enlightened trend.

    Of course, a wife is entitled to maintenance from her husband for herself, which is separate from maintenance for the children.

    The question that men and the media in this country don't seem to have the guts to ask often enough is why the modern, confident, independent woman is not half as enthusiastic about removing what should be seen as a patronising provision of the law as she is about demanding equal benefits.

    Let's face it: For Singapore men, marriage stinks. And the gathering female chauvinist campaign — that which forces men to do more housework while women retain the right to decide whether they want to reciprocate by paying more of the bills — stinks to high heaven.

    But it seems to me that unless Singapore men find the guts to stand up and demand fair treatment for themselves, they will deserve only the scraps the female chauvinists deign to give.
    Last edited by itisnottheendorg; 26th August 2005 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    So... that seems to spell the end of man kind in singapore....


    Just my 1/3 f-stop...

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Life was never fair. Divorce is costly, you end up giving everything you have to somebody else. Why get married? Flings and ONS are much better

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    hmm... seems like there is an invisible waves of Don'T Don'T Don'T (Get married... echoes...)

    hmm i think even thou male species over saturate the amount of female species in Singapore... i think the reason y there is more unmarried woman might be due to such reasons...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    hmm... seems like there is an invisible waves of Don'T Don'T Don'T (Get married... echoes...)

    hmm i think even thou male species over saturate the amount of female species in Singapore... i think the reason y there is more unmarried woman might be due to such reasons...
    I always thought there are more women in spore than men.
    Something about polluted environment being detrimental to the production of males.
    One day, females will reproduce asexually....
    ;P

    Just my 1/3 f-stop...

  6. #6

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    I Want To Hear From The Ladies Here..!!!

    better make it big big
    Last edited by itisnottheendorg; 26th August 2005 at 10:41 AM.

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    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    What, on the other hand, can a man do if his spouse is an indifferent wife or mother? What can he do if his spouse is seldom interested in physical contact but demands fidelity as a matter of right?
    Yep this is a tough situation to be in. It's mental torture, like having a D2X without any lens to shoot with.

    I think the only way is marriage counselling if wife is unwilling to perform her duties and that is one way to get some sort of leverage in custody cases if at the end is the only way out. So, wife has to learn that it is not one way in this relationship, takes both hands to clap. Don't wished this on anyone at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    The practice of almost automatically awarding sole custody of any child of the marriage to the wife is also sexist, outdated and unfair to men.
    It is sad that almost always the wife gains custody, I think is antiquated and archaic thinking, a fairer appraoch should be found, but it is very tough, because the child is more attached to the mother, well in most cases and if a father really loves the child and setting bad feelings with to be former wife aside, he would not bare to separate the mother and child, unless mother is totally hopeless case.


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    Of course, a wife is entitled to maintenance from her husband for herself, which is separate from maintenance for the children.
    Well, only until she re-marries, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    Let's face it: For Singapore men, marriage stinks. And the gathering female chauvinist campaign that which forces men to do more housework while women retain the right to decide whether they want to reciprocate by paying more of the bills stinks to high heaven.
    That is generalising it a bit. Marriage don't stink... not at all. If you get the wrong partner or somehow don't know how to make a relationship work, yes any kind of relationship stinks in that case.

    Life has a lessons for everyone of us and whatever deal we've been dealt, have to make the best of it and turn it around, we have but one life and we owe it to ourselves to make it work and be happy.

    My 2 cents.

    ../azul123

  8. #8

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Definitely that it suxs to be a guy in Singapore.
    The laws do protect the woman population more than they would for the men.

    Then.. maybe the men should find male partners.... equal standing in terms of law?

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    I always thought there are more women in spore than men.
    Something about polluted environment being detrimental to the production of males.
    One day, females will reproduce asexually....
    ;P

    Just my 1/3 f-stop...
    The ratio is 3:1, that's why there's so many divorces and guys prefer to cohabit because divorces are expensive, alimony and giving $ away for nothing

  10. #10

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Well, it's a whole mindset thingie, which sometimes can be overblown by the press. Articles feature interviews which help them write what they want to write. Articles are written with an end in mind, and doesn't always, if ever, reflect on the everyday reality that we live.

    But if you choose to believe otherwise, there's this comic quote from Jurassic Park that I'll always remember:

    God makes dinosaurs.
    God makes men.
    Dinosaurs eat men.
    And women takes over the world

    Space out. Men and Women are made to compliment each other. The real reality we live in reflects this complementary partnership more often than the exaggeration of press and columnists.

  11. #11

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    So... that seems to spell the end of man kind in singapore....


    Just my 1/3 f-stop...
    Not only Singapore. I think the modern society has changed the roles of both genders disrupting the intended segregation of duty. I am not down playing woman's role of duty but I think the point was well made on woman's protection under the Charter. Then again if you are not seeking to break up, it doesn't really matter.

    Was at the zoo and seen the lions' exhibit. Many females with only one male in sight. Isn't it great that the male role is only to mate, while the female bears off springs, brings back its prey and raises the cub?

  12. #12

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    So... that seems to spell the end of man kind in singapore....


    Just my 1/3 f-stop...
    Not only Singapore. I think the modern society has changed the roles of both genders disrupting the intended segregation of duty. I am not down playing woman's role of duty but I think the point was well made on woman's protection under the Charter. Then again if you are not seeking to break up, it doesn't really matter.

    Was at the zoo and seen the lions' exhibit. Many females with only one male in sight. Isn't it great that the male role is only to mate, while the female bears off springs, brings back its prey and raises the cub?

    My 1/8000 shutter speed.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    All I can say guys, if i ever became the PM of Singapore, I'd abolish the women's charter and draft women but put in laws that helps encourage equlity for BOTH men and women. You might not have to worry about the women's charter till you divorce, however, it's the principal of the matter. Just because you're not affected by racists or sexcists laws doesn't make it ok for those laws to be in place.

  14. #14
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by ckuang
    All I can say guys, if i ever became the PM of Singapore, I'd abolish the women's charter and draft women but put in laws that helps encourage equlity for BOTH men and women. You might not have to worry about the women's charter till you divorce, however, it's the principal of the matter. Just because you're not affected by racists or sexcists laws doesn't make it ok for those laws to be in place.
    Then you have to ask women to grow a prick and have equivalent muscle and strength to fight for themselves so that they are not abused by their violent husbands.

    There is no such thing as fair. Fair is from which point of view you are looking from.

    ../azul123
    Last edited by azul123; 26th August 2005 at 11:45 AM.

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by litefoot
    Was at the zoo and seen the lions' exhibit. Many females with only one male in sight. Isn't it great that the male role is only to mate, while the female bears off springs, brings back its prey and raises the cub?

    My 1/8000 shutter speed.
    Hahaha! Well, in the past, harems and concubines were in vogue!


    But if you are a black widow spider or praying mantis male... then its really sad. Mate and be eaten.

    I guess mammals are polygamous by nature. Hahaa! Of course, man are considered of a higher order then mammals and I guess thats where the rules don't apply.... Or... wait was it a female scam right frm the start??


    Just my 1/3 f-stop...

  16. #16

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by ckuang
    All I can say guys, if i ever became the PM of Singapore, I'd abolish the women's charter and draft women but put in laws that helps encourage equlity for BOTH men and women. You might not have to worry about the women's charter till you divorce, however, it's the principal of the matter. Just because you're not affected by racists or sexcists laws doesn't make it ok for those laws to be in place.

    In reality , there is no such thing as equality .

    Each of us have different values, and perceives things differently. Even between both genders, we play a role to compliment each other. We can have law to deem it as "equal" . However, in practise , such matters differs according to individuals.
    Last edited by kitkat; 26th August 2005 at 11:51 AM.

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    well.. if you look at it from a finance pt of view, perhaps the woman does 'benefit' IF there's divorce. thing is, if you have the mindset to divorce, why even get married in the 1st place? isnt marriage for life ?

    however if one look from a woman's pt of view.. after divorce ...guess what? who's 'market value' drops more? a 40 year olds guy or a 40 years old woman? ever wonder how we women suffered monthly for the pms, menstrual cramp, endured 10 mths to give birth, menopause and not forgetting more complications at different stage of life.

    sg women are quite pai mia. our grandmothers and mothers mostly stayed at home, sg women have to go out to work, juggle housework, look after kids and keep husbands happy

    think again, if you think guys are on the losing end, as to why there's a Women Chapter to protect us lor.

    marriage isnt about romance, it's about commitment & responsibilities. i heard it's becos you owed each other in your previous lives, it's about paying back the debts this life time.



    wahhhh i wrote so much
    爱是要时间慢慢培养的。。

  18. #18

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    "Everyone Is Equal, Some More Equal Than The Others."

  19. #19

    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    "Everyone Is Equal, Some More Equal Than The Others."

    "Two legs good , four legs are better " - Quote Animal Farm , George Owell

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    Default Re: "MARRIAGE? laws are A RAW DEAL FOR MEN"

    Quote Originally Posted by furrycake
    however if one look from a woman's pt of view.. after divorce ...guess what? who's 'market value' drops more? a 40 year olds guy or a 40 years old woman? ever wonder how we women suffered monthly for the pms, menstrual cramp, endured 10 mths to give birth, menopause and not forgetting more complications at different stage of life.
    So, let's say hypothetically, that there is one woman out to abuse the system....

    Marries at 22 to some rich dude... have a kid... divorce at 27 (<- about 1/2 below 40 so mkt value retains... assume pretty so retains even more,... ). Then for the rest of her life, she gets paid!!!!

    And now I am reading young gals selling their virginity.... (their justification is that "Hey! If I am gonna lose it to some guy who will walk out on me... might as well earn some money!") sorrry pal... welcome to the real world... it aint the same as your ole grandma dayz.....

    Times are a changin!

    Just my 1/3 f-stop...
    Last edited by Zplus; 26th August 2005 at 12:08 PM.

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