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Thread: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

  1. #1

    Default Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    So i pretty much a complete noob in camera since the day i got my first digital camera. Well till now, i still using only my phone and a cheap sony camera to take picture (last night i found out that this camera is a type call compact).

    actually last evening, my daughter, 15 this year, come up to me and asked if i can buy her a camera, since she started developing interest in photography( went for those 3 or days workshop, go out take some pictures and such). She is asking for a Canon EOS 1200D. she dont even know the price clearly, obviously thinking that i should give up one month saving because she done well in exam. Anyway, i didnt agree. i try looking online and in the forum, realised it can cost anywhere between 600-800, depending on the lens.

    Anyway, as i know peanuts about camera, i tried to do some search online. I do know that it is a DSLR, entry level, and consider cheap among DSLR. Further digging pop up 2 terms that seems to be hybirds and crossbreeds of DSLR and compact:
    CSC, to me its something like a compact with extra lens
    Bridge, to me its something like a smaller DSLR without extra lens
    i seriously dont know how true is my understanding, but generally, except on rare case, DSLR>> hybirds>>compact

    The thing about my daughter is, i know her characteristics. she started an online shop and closed it 6 months after that. she tried to join me for mountaineering but gave up after 4 hikes. she also learned ballet and played badminton for her primary school, but she isnt doing any of them anymore.

    so i wonder if it is even worth buying her an 800 dollars camera just for her to play for 6 months. the design of CSC seems to caught me because it seems possible for ordinary usage.

    so any recommendation?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Hi! Welcome to CS.

    Actually, I do agree that it will(may) be hard to spend ~$800 for something that you know that may not last even 1 year. The most important thing for you now, may be the consideration of the Cost and Size/Weight of the camera (Since I doubt you will want a big camera)

    You might want to look at some of the PnS and Mirrorless camera.

    At the moment, those compact point and shoot camera (PnS) like Canon G7X, Sony RX100 still cost at least ~$750. And while some of those Mirrorless camera like E-PL6 have came down to around $600. I think I saw EOS-M (Mirrorless) going for $500+


    * PnS: Camera that dun need to change lens. If you don't want the hassle of changing lens, this will be nice.
    * Mirrorless: still can change lens, so it's like a 'mini' DSLR. It's bigger than PnS, so it's not very pocketable and will get heavier when you start buying accessories or lens.



    **btw for the cost of EOS1200, I think you got many other options that are cheaper and better..
    **If you are thinking of those PnS camera < $300, I personally will say, forget it and use a camera phone instead. The camera phone nowadays is pretty impressive.
    Last edited by SkyStrike; 28th November 2014 at 11:37 AM.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  3. #3

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    The thing about my daughter is, i know her characteristics. she started an online shop and closed it 6 months after that. she tried to join me for mountaineering but gave up after 4 hikes. she also learned ballet and played badminton for her primary school, but she isnt doing any of them anymore.

    so i wonder if it is even worth buying her an 800 dollars camera just for her to play for 6 months. the design of CSC seems to caught me because it seems possible for ordinary usage.

    so any recommendation?
    I actually think it's great that she's adventurous and willing to try new things. I'd still give her the benefit of the doubt, and try to support her if its within your means... cos you never know if this is the fad that ends up sticking around. Better than a kid who asks for money to buy a branded bag... or maybe she's not at that stage yet. Haha.

    That said, to be prudent, you can explore the Marketplace section for deals, or look to older models even. Tell her this is what we can spend, if you show me you're serious about this, let's talk about upgrading in a year or two, etc.

    Examples:
    There's a new 1200D with kit lens listed for $550 — http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1472339
    450D + kit lens $200 — http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471906

    -------

    You're right in thinking that a CSC might be a suitable option. You could end up using it as a family camera as they are mostly less bulky compared to DSLRs. But realistically speaking, if nobody in your family picks up the interest/hobby, it's very likely that even a CSC will be considered too bulky and inconvenient to bring out, especially compared to a cellphone.
    Last edited by kandinsky; 28th November 2014 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member alwaysjerricky's Avatar
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    Default

    Actually there are some used 550d-700d (xxxD series) going about 400-500. If you don't want to spend that much on a hobby you're not sure your daughter is going to be committed to, you can try them out. Just be sure to check that everything functions properly.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    Hi! Welcome to CS.

    Actually, I do agree that it will(may) be hard to spend ~$800 for something that you know that may not last even 1 year. The most important thing for you now, may be the consideration of the Cost and Size/Weight of the camera (Since I doubt you will want a big camera)

    You might want to look at some of the PnS and Mirrorless camera.

    At the moment, those compact point and shoot camera (PnS) like Canon G7X, Sony RX100 still cost at least ~$750. And while some of those Mirrorless camera like E-PL6 have came down to around $600. I think I saw EOS-M (Mirrorless) going for $500+


    * PnS: Camera that dun need to change lens. If you don't want the hassle of changing lens, this will be nice.
    * Mirrorless: still can change lens, so it's like a 'mini' DSLR. It's bigger than PnS, so it's not very pocketable and will get heavier when you start buying accessories or lens.



    **btw for the cost of EOS1200, I think you got many other options that are cheaper and better..
    **If you are thinking of those PnS camera < $300, I personally will say, forget it and use a camera phone instead. The camera phone nowadays is pretty impressive.
    well, thanks for the contribution. PnS less than $300 as you said, is being push away. i dont think i will get a more expensive PnS though. she made it clear to me. I am currently looking for a suitable Mirrorless. But is still cluessless.

    are the models here ok?
    Olympus PEN E-PM2
    Fujifilm X-M1
    Sony NEX-3N
    Samsung NX2000
    Fujifilm X-A1
    Nikon 1 J3
    Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6
    Pentax Q7
    Nikon 1 S1
    Sony a3000
    Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
    i know that some of them are being replaced by newer version, but generally, are they good?

    question about lens: are lens of different product interchangeable? or the are built specifically per model? for example can a sony made NEX-3N fit into a nikon J3? if not possible, what about a nikon J3 lens fitting into a nikon S1 lens?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by kandinsky View Post
    I actually think it's great that she's adventurous and willing to try new things. I'd still give her the benefit of the doubt, and try to support her if its within your means... cos you never know if this is the fad that ends up sticking around. Better than a kid who asks for money to buy a branded bag... or maybe she's not at that stage yet. Haha.

    That said, to be prudent, you can explore the Marketplace section for deals, or look to older models even. Tell her this is what we can spend, if you show me you're serious about this, let's talk about upgrading in a year or two, etc.

    -------

    You're right in thinking that a CSC might be a suitable option. You could end up using it as a family camera as they are mostly less bulky compared to DSLRs. But realistically speaking, if nobody in your family picks up the interest/hobby, it's very likely that even a CSC will be considered too bulky and inconvenient to bring out, especially compared to a cellphone.
    only thing is i can take out the lens and use it as a normal compact... at least it is still lightweight (although not that lightweight)

    thanks for the links anyway. they are great.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    question about lens: are lens of different product interchangeable? or the are built specifically per model? for example can a sony made NEX-3N fit into a nikon J3? if not possible, what about a nikon J3 lens fitting into a nikon S1 lens?
    Each brand has its own proprietary mount so they are brand-specific except for Olympus and Panasonic, which share the same Micro Four Thirds mount.

    As of 2014, several MILC camera systems were available. In chronological order (by their introduction) and referring to the adopted lens-mount type, they are:
    Epson R-D1 using Leica M mount in 2004;
    Leica itself in 2006;
    Micro Four Thirds mount for Olympus and Panasonic MILCs;
    Samsung NX-mount for Samsung MILCs;
    Sony E-mount for Sony MILCs;
    Nikon 1-mount for Nikon MILCs;
    Pentax Q mount for Pentax small-sensor MILC (Pentax Q);
    K-mount for both Pentax DSLRs and Pentax large-sensor MILC;
    X-mount for Fujifilm MILCs; and
    Canon EF-M mount for Canon MILCs.

    (Sony's full-frame MILCs, introduced in late 2013, use the same E-mount as the company's APS-C MILCs, but require "FE" lenses for full-frame coverage.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorl...le-lens_camera

  8. #8

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    only thing is i can take out the lens and use it as a normal compact... at least it is still lightweight (although not that lightweight)

    thanks for the links anyway. they are great.
    You're welcome. FYI, if you 'take out the lens' on a CSC, you're left with just the camera body! You won't be able to use it as a 'normal compact' without a lens.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    well, thanks for the contribution. PnS less than $300 as you said, is being push away. i dont think i will get a more expensive PnS though. she made it clear to me. I am currently looking for a suitable Mirrorless. But is still cluessless.

    are the models here ok?
    Olympus PEN E-PM2
    Fujifilm X-M1
    Sony NEX-3N
    Samsung NX2000
    Fujifilm X-A1
    Nikon 1 J3
    Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6
    Pentax Q7
    Nikon 1 S1
    Sony a3000
    Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
    i know that some of them are being replaced by newer version, but generally, are they good?

    question about lens: are lens of different product interchangeable? or the are built specifically per model? for example can a sony made NEX-3N fit into a nikon J3? if not possible, what about a nikon J3 lens fitting into a nikon S1 lens?
    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    only thing is i can take out the lens and use it as a normal compact... at least it is still lightweight (although not that lightweight)

    thanks for the links anyway. they are great.
    Well, as said, when you take out the lens from a Camera that needs a lens, you just have a body and you can't shoot anything with it...

    For illustration.... borrowing some images from Google / BH

    A body only mirrorless camera.. You can't shoot anything without the lens.

    As for the models of the camera, generally, most will be good enough (I've never used any of those cameras listed there thou)... but I'll prefer those that have at least 1 inch sized sensor.

    Also, as mentioned by another, you can try exploring the buy and sell section and get some 2nd hand cameras instead.. Those will be usually cheaper than those brand new latest models in the market.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  10. #10

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    ok, now i see that what it means by mirrorless.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    ok, now i see that what it means by mirrorless.
    In short, mirrorless is similar to DSLR except the technology or mechanism inside the body is different. Thus, mirrorless can be slightly lighter and smaller than DLSR.

    Will you be using the camera as well or just purely for your daughter?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by renol View Post
    In short, mirrorless is similar to DSLR except the technology or mechanism inside the body is different. Thus, mirrorless can be slightly lighter and smaller than DLSR.

    Will you be using the camera as well or just purely for your daughter?
    just my daughter

  13. #13
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Actually... it is really not easy for any of us to give you excellent advise and which model of cameras to go to (be it mirrorless interchangeable lens camera, DSLR or advance compact/ Bridge camera) because none of us is actually your daughter and we do not know what she is looking for in a camera except that we know to a certain extend that compact camera, phone camera and bridge cameras are out of the questions. So that left DSLR and mirrorless interchangeable lens camera.

    Basically at the moment, if you can include the price range that you are actually looking at, then maybe we can better advises you on the type of camera you might be looking into. Like what others had already mentioned, mirrorless interchangeable lens camera are smaller most of the time (with some exception though) as compared to DSLR. The main difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera is that the mirrorless camera didn't have the mirror in its body (thus the term mirrorless) and so it didn't have optical viewfinder too (too technical here, I sense).

    Basically at the moment, if you are looking for a small, APS-C sensor sized mirrorless interchangeable lens camera, the Canon EOS-M is going off at a pretty neat price of around S$5xx with lens. Yes, it didn't have the fastest AF (in fact I will be truthful to you... the AF is pretty slow as compared to other mirrorless camera), but at that price, it is hard to beat.

    All the other cameras that you have listed are good too, no complains over them. However, you really need to bring your daughter down the shop and let her has a feel of those cameras that you have shortlisted and see if she like any of them.

    The simplest way to do it is to send emails to shops asking for equote, then dump those cameras that you find too expensive for your taste, and shortlist two or three models, then bring your daughter down to test these cameras.

    Attached is a list of shops that most of us CSers visited for our photography hobby.

    AP-F: Alan Photo, #02-07 Funan The IT Mall | 6883-0922 | alanfoto@singnet.com.sg
    AP-S: Alan Photo, #01-38 Sim Lim Square | 6336-0922 | alanfoto@singnet.com.sg
    CP-1: Cathay Photo, #01-11, 14 Peninsula Plaza (Main) | 6337-4274 | email@cathayphoto.com.sg
    CP-2: Cathay Photo, Peninsula (Printer Section) | 6338-7783 | email@cathayphoto.com.sg
    CP-3: Cathay Photo, Peninsula (Tripod Section) | 6338-0451 | email@cathayphoto.com.sg
    CP-M: Cathay Photo, #02-215, Marina Square | 6339-6188 | email@cathayphoto.com.sg
    JO: John 3:16, #05-37 Funan Digitalife Mall | 6337-2877 | 6337-1897 | j316ps@gmail.com
    MS: MS Color (Main), 711 Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8, #01-3501C | 6457-6380 | sales@mscolor.com.sg
    MS: MS Color (AMK Hub), 53 Ang Mo Kio Ave 3 #02-24 | 6452-2828 | sales@mscolor.com.sg
    OP: Orient Photo, #06-31 | 53 Sim Lim Square | 6339-1035 | sales@orientfoto.com.sg
    SLRR: SLR Revolution, #05-K7 Funan Digitalife Mall | 6336-8767 | slr.revo@gmail.com
    TK: T.K. Foto Technic, #02-14 Funan Digitalife Mall | 6292-4533 | www.tkfoto.com.sg

    You can send them email for the latest price.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  14. #14

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Actually... it is really not easy for any of us to give you excellent advise and which model of cameras to go to (be it mirrorless interchangeable lens camera, DSLR or advance compact/ Bridge camera) because none of us is actually your daughter and we do not know what she is looking for in a camera except that we know to a certain extend that compact camera, phone camera and bridge cameras are out of the questions. So that left DSLR and mirrorless interchangeable lens camera.

    Basically at the moment, if you can include the price range that you are actually looking at, then maybe we can better advises you on the type of camera you might be looking into. Like what others had already mentioned, mirrorless interchangeable lens camera are smaller most of the time (with some exception though) as compared to DSLR. The main difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera is that the mirrorless camera didn't have the mirror in its body (thus the term mirrorless) and so it didn't have optical viewfinder too (too technical here, I sense).

    Basically at the moment, if you are looking for a small, APS-C sensor sized mirrorless interchangeable lens camera, the Canon EOS-M is going off at a pretty neat price of around S$5xx with lens. Yes, it didn't have the fastest AF (in fact I will be truthful to you... the AF is pretty slow as compared to other mirrorless camera), but at that price, it is hard to beat.

    All the other cameras that you have listed are good too, no complains over them. However, you really need to bring your daughter down the shop and let her has a feel of those cameras that you have shortlisted and see if she like any of them.

    The simplest way to do it is to send emails to shops asking for equote, then dump those cameras that you find too expensive for your taste, and shortlist two or three models, then bring your daughter down to test these cameras.

    Attached is a list of shops that most of us CSers visited for our photography hobby.


    You can send them email for the latest price.
    thank you very much for the information. indeed i do not know much about camera, and if i told my daughter to pick herself, she will without any hesitation, picked the most powerful one without consideration of the price. Your suggestion is very nice and feasible. really thank you.

  15. #15
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieveindevil View Post
    thank you very much for the information. indeed i do not know much about camera, and if i told my daughter to pick herself, she will without any hesitation, picked the most powerful one without consideration of the price. Your suggestion is very nice and feasible. really thank you.
    You might want to go to the shops alone, in advance. But be aware: sales man are sellers, not consultants or advisers. Have a look at the prices for yourself and set a limit to what you want to spend. One thing you can fix in your mind: in daylight, all cameras will perform well and it is a challenge to tell them apart from the pictures taken. Once you have shortlisted a few get your daughter to accompany you and see which camera she likes form the handling. Aspects like handling, weight, buttons and menu are more relevant than brands, technical specs and glam factor
    One thing is for sure: you will buy consumer electronics. Prices fall by the months and it is best to write off the price completely. If your daughter quits photography in 6 months the resale value is maybe 50%. A few dents or scratches and it's even less.
    EOS

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    My father bought me my first camera and I've never looked back since then~

  17. #17

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    If my father wana buy me a camera, i will request for d810 + 24-70 f2.8 + 14-28 f2.8 n 70 -200 f2.8

    + 400mm f2.8 cw teleconverter 1.7
    Last edited by Bart Tan; 28th November 2014 at 08:24 PM.
    D800E / Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 / 150-600 Tamron

  18. #18

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    You might want to go to the shops alone, in advance. But be aware: sales man are sellers, not consultants or advisers.
    +1. A self-confessed "know peanuts about camera" father, shopping for a camera with his daughter in tow, may very likely end up being a prime target for unscrupulous sales folks.

    ---------------

    @ibelieveindevil: Whatever you do, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT purchase ANYTHING that you have not researched beforehand. This especially applies to accessories like "0.5X wide angle converter", but applies to cameras and lenses too.

    If anything other than what you have already researched is recommended to you on the spot, take note of it, go back home, research features/market price, then decide whether to purchase. Just be very careful. All the best in your shopping.

    Cautionary tales:
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1351219
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1193157
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817635
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437540
    http://youtu.be/PauEkvcbQEc
    Last edited by kandinsky; 29th November 2014 at 11:34 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Canon 1200D is an excellent choice. just get the cam for your daughter and let her explore her hobby.
    if it doesn't work out you can always sell the camera 2nd hand.

    one of our clubsnappers started out by using a humble Canon 400D as an amateur and is now an excellent pro wedding photographer.

    good luck with your decision.
    Last edited by zaren; 28th November 2014 at 09:05 PM.

  20. #20
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help, complete noob needs to buy a cam for my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart Tan View Post
    If my father wana buy me a camera, i will request for d810 + 24-70 f2.8 + 14-28 f2.8 n 70 -200 f2.8
    + 400mm f2.8 cw teleconverter 1.7
    You are asking for a smack left right center?
    This is newbies corner, not Kopitiam. Be helpful.
    EOS

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