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Thread: Snobbish Esplanade?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by shuy
    isn't dressing up a form of respect? i mean, if u were performing some classy performance, u wouldn't really want people to come in tshirts n berms n popcorn. u'd probably expect them to treat the performance as seriously as u do, coming in more formal attire. of course, your clothes doesn't show how much u are able to appreciate the music. but it's more a form of courtesy for the performers than anything else. hmm... courtesy... singapore... they don't seem to match very well
    Haizzz....... read my post again. I do not dispute rules should be laid down to respect an event but not stupid restrictions like not being able to take photos even on the outside compound.

    Btw, if I'm a performer, and my audiences will only come in berms then so be it. I would rather have someone who appreciate what I do then a tuxedosam trying to please me. Just me.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NitroTech
    Think you guys are just not getting Kit's point. Sheeeesh......
    As usual............

  3. #23
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    Hi

    actually, a true arts lover / artist probably wouldn't give 2 hoots about wat they wear. Sure u gotta maintain a standard of decent dressing. In today's society, the standard of decent dressing seems to be less is more. Maintaining that standard doesn't seem to be that hard, as long as you have some kind of cloth covering your body.

    Why should art lovers be well dressed to appreciate art? most art lovers / arts pple i know have weird hairdos, wear funny ear rings, wear bermudas and shirts with plenty of holes in them, singlets and wat nots.

    they also speak funny; some with weird effeminate gestures.

    Some of the well dressed, high brow, well heeled audience attending artfests are more often than not self proclaimed art connoisseur wannabes who want to act like they are into the arts, when all they are at is really a form of high class, high powered social gathering not unlike primal gatherings of a group of monkeys.

    More often than not these group of people belong to the ranks of the social elite who just have to be seen at places.

    They are the ones more likely to have handphones ringing off the hook almost every min of performances.

    The shabbly dressed grandmother fervent for traditional TeoChew Opera has no less appreciation for arts than any of the well dressed primates lining up the hallways of an expensive establishment.

    let the flaming begin.....
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Goondu
    This is a sensitive time. Better be safe than sorry.
    I agree, but is it a good enough reason to restrict freedom?

  5. #25
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    Originally posted by Bluestrike

    maybe you using ISO6400 ones.....
    hehehhahahaaa
    Eh? Don't quite get you leh..........

  6. #26
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    what is high art? It is the form which is classical in nature, such as operas and stuff. By having a grand structure for this, exposure to traditional high art is increased. And please, if you hired some top-end opera troupe and they came performing to a bunch of people who happy happy shoot flash in their faces and wear Malibu t-shirts you can be sure they will NEVER come back. And photography, how can u be sure that even if u urself do not do something overboard, that some campy tourist might not restrain him/herself and end up damaging something? or as I had pointed out before, harmless it may seem to be photographing some lobby with a coat of hair, other nefarious ppl may be shooting for electrcial conduits, lifts specifications and whatnot.
    yes art can exist even without a flattering audience, but the durian is to be a flagship, to command respect in sheer scale. They could have just converted CCs into art centres as well, but the negative associations are there. always.
    of course I see the surface of things, I have my own interests and I am not a savant to all knowledge big and small. So are many more people like me.
    I do agree that the current durian system is doomed to failure, like all govt projects, it's the second season of 2-5 years later that the actual finetuning or reinvention takes place for a wider appeal. And Guggenheim has been here since the 60s? How do you compare?
    Unlike technical things which u so like to despise, art + culture is more like wine making, no? you can learn the technique, buy the best vats the best breeds but u need time to accumulate enough ppl + mindset to get it really flying.
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  7. #27

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    Originally posted by Red Dawn

    they also speak funny; some with weird effeminate gestures.
    are u sure they are art freaks or just freaks?

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by Kit


    I agree, but is it a good enough reason to restrict freedom?
    do you fence in your sheep when a wolf pack is loose? even if they can graze less well?
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by maddog


    are u sure they are art freaks or just freaks?
    yeah if u pay $350 for a gala you must be rich and famous, mingling with other elites and being patrons of the arts... LOL
    as for dressing, take it or leave it? no one forces you to wear tux into a performance, whether the thugs will let you in is another matter. more like u are willing to wear anything as long as u get to see them?
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  10. #30
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    Originally posted by Kit


    Haizzz....... read my post again. I do not dispute rules should be laid down to respect an event but not stupid restrictions like not being able to take photos even on the outside compound.

    Btw, if I'm a performer, and my audiences will only come in berms then so be it. I would rather have someone who appreciate what I do then a tuxedosam trying to please me. Just me.
    hmm, i missed the point abt taking the photos. well, it's dumb imo and i dun think u can be sued or anything as long as u don't publicly broadcast the photos.

    i know it's easy to say "hey, i don't care what my audience wears, it doesn't make a difference." but i'm sure it's a nice gesture to wear something formal to show appreciation for the performance. it's all abt courtesy, not pleasing the performer. like saying please and thank you, it's like the way to behave.

  11. #31

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    I think all the management is saying is to do the following:
    - Dont let annoying devices beep during performances
    - No plastic bags cos it makes annoying loud noises
    - Dress decently. I can dress quite decently for about 100 bucks. If we can afford to pay for non bulk roll slides, I'm sure we can dress decently.

    I think any Singaporean, rich or poor can at least achieve this minimum standard can't they? No need for Gucci. I don't think the ushers check your label so please don't exaggerate the standards. If you wear bermudas and slippers to a performance, I think you're just out to make a statement. A very crude one.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by denizenx
    what is high art? It is the form which is classical in nature, such as operas and stuff. By having a grand structure for this, exposure to traditional high art is increased. And please, if you hired some top-end opera troupe and they came performing to a bunch of people who happy happy shoot flash in their faces and wear Malibu t-shirts you can be sure they will NEVER come back. And photography, how can u be sure that even if u urself do not do something overboard, that some campy tourist might not restrain him/herself and end up damaging something? or as I had pointed out before, harmless it may seem to be photographing some lobby with a coat of hair, other nefarious ppl may be shooting for electrcial conduits, lifts specifications and whatnot.
    yes art can exist even without a flattering audience, but the durian is to be a flagship, to command respect in sheer scale. They could have just converted CCs into art centres as well, but the negative associations are there. always.
    of course I see the surface of things, I have my own interests and I am not a savant to all knowledge big and small. So are many more people like me.
    I do agree that the current durian system is doomed to failure, like all govt projects, it's the second season of 2-5 years later that the actual finetuning or reinvention takes place for a wider appeal. And Guggenheim has been here since the 60s? How do you compare?
    Unlike technical things which u so like to despise, art + culture is more like wine making, no? you can learn the technique, buy the best vats the best breeds but u need time to accumulate enough ppl + mindset to get it really flying.
    Again, the bloody single mindset sets in. Who told you that art has to happen in elaborated venues? Associating status with arts is both snobbish and unworkable. Period.

    Worrying about people shooting electrcial conduits, lifts specifications?? YOu obviously don't know much about building services and regulations do you? In any case, Building services are designed to be out of sight and out of reach to the public. You wouldn't expect a 600 million building to be otherwise.

    What makes the durian a flagship? The way it makes people think its a flagship or how people actually use the building. Like an Nikon F5, its a flagship but its how you use it that determines it worth.

    The Guggenheim Museum of Bilbao by Frank Gehry was completed in 2000. Do not confused it with the Guggenheim Museum in New York by Frank Llyod Wright.

    On the contrary, I love technical stuff. You wouldn't have the slightest idea how much I'm not building construction and details.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by denizenx


    do you fence in your sheep when a wolf pack is loose? even if they can graze less well?
    As with everything, efforts have to be made to ensure the quality of life for my sheeps while remaining safe. There's risk in everything we do. How well you do it depends on how well you manage risk.

  14. #34
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    Originally posted by shuy


    hmm, i missed the point abt taking the photos. well, it's dumb imo and i dun think u can be sued or anything as long as u don't publicly broadcast the photos.

    i know it's easy to say "hey, i don't care what my audience wears, it doesn't make a difference." but i'm sure it's a nice gesture to wear something formal to show appreciation for the performance. it's all abt courtesy, not pleasing the performer. like saying please and thank you, it's like the way to behave.
    Like I said, its just me.

  15. #35
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    Originally posted by maddog
    I think all the management is saying is to do the following:
    - Dont let annoying devices beep during performances
    - No plastic bags cos it makes annoying loud noises
    - Dress decently. I can dress quite decently for about 100 bucks. If we can afford to pay for non bulk roll slides, I'm sure we can dress decently.

    I think any Singaporean, rich or poor can at least achieve this minimum standard can't they? No need for Gucci. I don't think the ushers check your label so please don't exaggerate the standards. If you wear bermudas and slippers to a performance, I think you're just out to make a statement. A very crude one.
    Without doubts most Singaporeans can do it. I've got to say this one more time. Rules should be there but not stupid restrictions. I'm not making a statement wearing bermudas and I won't wear them if rules don't allow me to. But I sure wants to be in comfort.

  16. #36
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    Originally posted by Red Dawn
    Hi

    actually, a true arts lover / artist probably wouldn't give 2 hoots about wat they wear. Sure u gotta maintain a standard of decent dressing. In today's society, the standard of decent dressing seems to be less is more. Maintaining that standard doesn't seem to be that hard, as long as you have some kind of cloth covering your body.

    Why should art lovers be well dressed to appreciate art? most art lovers / arts pple i know have weird hairdos, wear funny ear rings, wear bermudas and shirts with plenty of holes in them, singlets and wat nots.

    they also speak funny; some with weird effeminate gestures.

    Some of the well dressed, high brow, well heeled audience attending artfests are more often than not self proclaimed art connoisseur wannabes who want to act like they are into the arts, when all they are at is really a form of high class, high powered social gathering not unlike primal gatherings of a group of monkeys.

    More often than not these group of people belong to the ranks of the social elite who just have to be seen at places.

    They are the ones more likely to have handphones ringing off the hook almost every min of performances.

    The shabbly dressed grandmother fervent for traditional TeoChew Opera has no less appreciation for arts than any of the well dressed primates lining up the hallways of an expensive establishment.

    let the flaming begin.....
    i feel what u said has some truth, but it's an exaggerated stereotype of the social elite. many do really appreciate art, though some r just wannabes. and u gotta understand it's this atereotyped view that causes any social elitist trying to pick up art and music as a hobby to be branded as a poseur. c'mon man, what's wrong with that?

    art has many forms, and in my vocab, classes. from street busking to classical orchestras. many truly talented people look and act peculiar, that i don't deny. but nobody's crisicizing them or belittling them, so there's no need to defend them. what i feel is that the durians were constructed primarily for a (again in my vocab) higher class of art. not higher as in better, but i use that word as it sufficiently describes the forms of art i'm talking about, like classical music and opera. the durians therefore naturally houses the people who appreciate (or try to) this category of art. so what's the fuss? it's just different. nobody's saying it's better or worse than the street circus performers from china or the chinese operas at void decks.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by shuy


    i feel what u said has some truth, but it's an exaggerated stereotype of the social elite. many do really appreciate art, though some r just wannabes. and u gotta understand it's this atereotyped view that causes any social elitist trying to pick up art and music as a hobby to be branded as a poseur. c'mon man, what's wrong with that?

    art has many forms, and in my vocab, classes. from street busking to classical orchestras. many truly talented people look and act peculiar, that i don't deny. but nobody's crisicizing them or belittling them, so there's no need to defend them. what i feel is that the durians were constructed primarily for a (again in my vocab) higher class of art. not higher as in better, but i use that word as it sufficiently describes the forms of art i'm talking about, like classical music and opera. the durians therefore naturally houses the people who appreciate (or try to) this category of art. so what's the fuss? it's just different. nobody's saying it's better or worse than the street circus performers from china or the chinese operas at void decks.
    Yes, they're different. Should the durians be equipped to cater for a single artform or be a well rounded venue? I think the answer is pretty darn obvious.

  18. #38
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    Originally posted by Kit


    Without doubts most Singaporeans can do it. I've got to say this one more time. Rules should be there but not stupid restrictions. I'm not making a statement wearing bermudas and I won't wear them if rules don't allow me to. But I sure wants to be in comfort.
    hmm... what restriction are u talking abt now? berms or taking photos? i'm sure i love berms as much, if not more than u do. i haven't worn a pair of long pants or jeans in months, cos i'm schooling rite now. i normally think it's ridiculous to wear pants out in a hot place in singapore. but when it comes to performances, it's only polite to wear something formal. just like it is to switch off your mobiles n beepers. in both cases, u lose that bit of convenience for the sake of courtesy and respect to the performance.

  19. #39
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    Originally posted by Kit


    Again, the bloody single mindset sets in. Who told you that art has to happen in elaborated venues? Associating status with arts is both snobbish and unworkable. Period.

    Worrying about people shooting electrcial conduits, lifts specifications?? YOu obviously don't know much about building services and regulations do you? In any case, Building services are designed to be out of sight and out of reach to the public. You wouldn't expect a 600 million building to be otherwise.

    What makes the durian a flagship? The way it makes people think its a flagship or how people actually use the building. Like an Nikon F5, its a flagship but its how you use it that determines it worth.

    The Guggenheim Museum of Bilbao by Frank Gehry was completed in 2000. Do not confused it with the Guggenheim Museum in New York by Frank Llyod Wright.

    On the contrary, I love technical stuff. You wouldn't have the slightest idea how much I'm not building construction and details.
    I only said some art, not ALL art, has to be performed in exquisite theatres.
    I knew you were in constructions. Hence the examples. I only need to know enough, not everything about the building. Trying to sound like a crappy spy movie, I just need shots of where to go and where to get out.
    Why is the HDB buidling so grand?
    If the quality vs sustainability of life in an immediate sense is in question, I'll let you out next time. LOL
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  20. #40
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by shuy


    hmm... what restriction are u talking abt now? berms or taking photos? i'm sure i love berms as much, if not more than u do. i haven't worn a pair of long pants or jeans in months, cos i'm schooling rite now. i normally think it's ridiculous to wear pants out in a hot place in singapore. but when it comes to performances, it's only polite to wear something formal. just like it is to switch off your mobiles n beepers. in both cases, u lose that bit of convenience for the sake of courtesy and respect to the performance.
    That's exactly what I said in the last post.

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