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Thread: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

  1. #61
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    however there is nothing unethical about a fully disclosed and formal subcontracting relationship. that's good business for everyone.
    Yep, that's ok for the client, if they are aware of the arrangements, then what remains is whether the fee being paid to the subcontracted person is fair. Of course that's very debatable, but as we always say, it's a free market, right.

  2. #62
    Senior Member richiemccaw1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    If I recall correctly, there were several instances where sharpshooter was not very transparent about his dealings and even appeared evasive at times. TS mentioned sharpshooter appeared to avoid talking about the details of the events which the former nicely accepted, assuming it was a simple job since it only pays $10/hour.

    When the ballgame changed later, i.e. the job scope turned out to be more than what he had assumed, an expectations gap thus arose since TS expected to be paid more for a job which sharpshooter did not share enough about in the first place. This may well be a case of misrepresentation.

    There is nothing wrong with being able to obtain a good rate for oneself as the middleman and then subcontract the job out at market/near-market rates. That's how the world operates anyway.

    However there seems to be a niggling sense that sharpshooter appears to be looking for student and assistant photographers to shoot events solo, i.e. take on quite a bit of responsibility. If he can take the risk that the hired guns would not deliver to the satisfaction of his clients, then fair enough to him. After all, you get what you pay for in most cases. He is taking a bigger profit for taking such a risk.

    Whether the rates he is offering are reasonable, as long as there is someone willing to 'pay school fees' and take less to pick up experience, we cannot stop this since the forum is not in the business of playing judge and policing such offers. Photographers do not have to accept the low rates which in itself is not wrong. The community needs to as a whole stop taking up such low fee paying jobs so that buyers are forced to improve their offers.

  3. #63
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    I have told Amos aka sharpshooter22 about this thread, he can sort things out with Esper if he want to,
    He contacted Esper, but Esper told him that he prefer to communication with him through this thread,
    instead of sort it out with Esper, Amos aka sharpshooter22 phone me, sms me whatapps me, private message me many times to ask me to delete the post,
    claiming this has affected him and his business, I told him NO, I will not abuse the power of a moderator to cover it up for him.
    I also told him that when he decided to a business, he have face with this kind of situations and deal with it.

    I replied his private message this morning, told him that if he chose not to respond to the thread is his choice, I won't question that.
    But keep contacting me to delete the post is already consider harassment. I ask him to stop doing this else I will degistered him.

    and yet I still receive one whatapps message and one phone call from him, so I decide let everyone know about this before my next action.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  4. #64
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    You can block him on Whatsapp..

    As for phone calls, there are ways to block too.

  5. #65
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    You can block him on Whatsapp..

    As for phone calls, there are ways to block too.
    if block already still can screen capture the content?
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    if block already still can screen capture the content?
    Yes, can. So long as you don't delete the message log, it will still be there.

  7. #67
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    if block already still can screen capture the content?
    Oh, you mean if he sends you subsequent messages?

    I don't think so, not for Whatsapp. My phone has a SMS/call block feature where it will just treat the SMS/call like how webmail clients treat junk mail. They're there, just that I never get to get bothered by them, and I can see what they msged at my own leisure. I don't think iPhone has this feature built-in though..

  8. #68

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    so desperate to close this thread?

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleveninth View Post
    so desperate to close this thread?
    hv to what. he already told catchlights that it is affecting his name/biz.

    the more he dont explain his story here, i think it will hurt even more.

  10. #70
    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence Quek View Post
    hv to what. he already told catchlights that it is affecting his name/biz.

    the more he dont explain his story here, i think it will hurt even more.
    That is his choice. A public explanation will allow the thread to be closed by mod.

  11. #71
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    ......jeez.....a 3 (THREE) HOUR RoM all-jpeg bang bang bang shoot is at least $250-300 nowadays for pocket-money hobbyists .....

    Thank you for bringing this up and sharing for all to take a lesson from your 'adventure'
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  12. #72
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  13. #73

    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    LOL. yeah. it's that easy

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    and new mobile number

  15. #75
    Moderator John Teoh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper View Post
    Yes, can. So long as you don't delete the message log, it will still be there.
    Or send the conversation as email to backup in case you accidentally delete.

  16. #76
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    We have many members sharing their experiences on business practise over the years and we put them into sticky threads. that really help many members who are keen to venture into photography business.

    but making money from providing photography services is not as rosy as many might think, there is a lot of blood, toil, tears and sweat alone the way.

    We only get to see the most glamour side, hear all the success stories most of the time, seldom people willing to show the world about their failure.

    What thread starter (Esper) has encountered is just a real life example, I appreciate thread starter (Esper) willing to come forward to share his story.

    The moderator team think this thread is sticky thread worthy. Hope this thread will help other aspiring photographers to make their career path less bumpy.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  17. #77
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Teoh View Post
    Or send the conversation as email to backup in case you accidentally delete.
    A screenshot is probably better, since the conversation as email can be "edited" and leaves some room for doubt.

    Of course screenshots can also be doctored, but it is less likely and there is limited scope to do so.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Chanced upon this thread while browsing the forum main page. I want to thank TS for being brave and exposing people like sharpshooter, and highlighting the plight of many hobbyist and enthusiasts trying to make some money out of this passion (most likely to fund camera gear). As much as this is part of a learning curve for new photographers, it isn't pleasant when a fellow photographer gets mistreated. Because he definitely isn't alone, and he is so young!

    So kudos to TS for highlighting this issue, and to the mods for their swift response and action!

  19. #79
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    To sharpshooter22 - kindly stop messaging/calling the moderators to delete this thread because it 'hurts your business'. There are many questions you are choosing to avoid answering, and harassing us to delete the thread raises more questions about your behaviour.

    Anymore spamming of PMs will result in your deregistration... and your thread will still be here for all to see and be warned.

    as an aside - demanding that i call you just because no one else is responding to your messages is probably the worst idea in the history of bad ideas... and if you have an iota of IQ, you should reflect upon yourself why people are ignoring you.
    Last edited by nightwolf75; 11th September 2014 at 01:56 PM.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  20. #80

    Default Re: Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    To sharpshooter22 - kindly stop messaging/calling the moderators to delete this thread because it 'hurts your business'. There are many questions you are choosing to avoid answering, and harassing us to delete the thread raises more questions about your behaviour.

    Anymore spamming of PMs will result in your deregistration... and your thread will still be here for all to see and be warned.

    as an aside - demanding that i call you just because no one else is responding to your messages is probably the worst idea in the history of bad ideas... and if you have an iota of IQ, you should reflect upon yourself why people are ignoring you.

    lol. This really shows his character.

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