View Poll Results: After reading this, will you still donate to NKF?

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Thread: Consolidated NKF Thread

  1. #161
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    Leadership: Steve Job announced that he will be paid minimum salary (US$1 per year) until he turns Apple around. I have heard of church pastors who, while being pegged to civil servants, saw their own salaries rise to levels much higher than their church members (obviously doing a good job, and certainly deserving a high pay) but decides to limit ther own pay for the good of the church.

    NKF shouldn't be such a difficult organisation to run that you need a $25,000/mth CEO. And 12 months bonus for performance? For organising monkey-shows?

    I have stopped giving to most 'un-disclosing' organisations since the case when I was asked to buy a 'food discount voucher' for donatin to Rainbow Club. I dig into the 'seller' and he knew no details. Then I checked and found out: $10 voucher will give total $15 of food discounts (if you go and eat at those places within 1 month), pays the distributing (voucher-selling) company $5.00, and donated $1 to Rainbow Club! $1 out of $10!!!! I should just walk to Rainbow Club's door and give them the $10. Similarly now NKF.

    From Hommie's post on the Kidney Dialysis Foundation, http://www.kdf.org.sg/reports.htm the average salary of their staff of 20 (considering 3 months bonus) is about $1600 per month.

    BTW, 3 month's bonus would be GREAT news to me. I had never had more than 1 month in the 7 years that I have worked.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    Does everyone here realize that by not donating to the NKF anymore, it is the kidney patients that suffer the most? Yes, I agree the management has to get their things done correctly, but don't let this serious matter judge your emotions........the matter has been brought into the limelight and these people will hopefully be dealt with, and changes made.

    My father was a kidney patient for 12 years, I have seen how it can wreck your body and your mind as well.......take a look at the kidney treatment centers, it could be more important to you to see the patients who are saved! This awareness may be more important than just your dollars.........

    Hong Sien
    They still have 189Million in the reserve.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellery
    I wonder if it is a reasonable thing for a public charity to pay so much and is it a moral thing to accpet so much.
    It's kinda double edge sword.... The key i think is if he's really responsible for the money raised? Is it directly attributable to him or how much of a part he played in.

    NKF is no different from any org. Only difference is it comprise of both professionals (workers, salaried staffs) and volunteer. The CEO is not a volunteer. He deserves to be paid the market compensation. It has nothing to do with moral.

    For example, i ever went to NKF for interview and i would not hesitate to ask for my deserved salary (market rate) as i am entitled to do so. I am not applying for volunteer services.

    As for the CEO, i rather NKF pays him 12 mths bonus (which is variable and i give them benefit of the doubt that the high bonus is related to his performance.) than high salary.

    From accounting perspective,
    a) say assume now he earns 25k a month and 12 mths bonus (variable). With the bonus, he will get 600k/year. However, his guaranteed payout is only 25k a mth and he will prob be more motivated to work harder to earn high bonus. This is no difference from the low basic salary (although 25k is not low lah) for salesmen, Insurance agents etc...

    b) On the other hand, if his salary is say 40k per mth and 3 mth bonus (variable but more reasonable right?), his guaranteed payout is 40k per mth and he still still earns 600k per year. However, in this case, he already have 480k safely in pocket and thus less motivation to work harder.

    Which is more desirable? I shd think option a.

    However, like i say, the key is whether he deserves it for the work he does. Thats another issue that we cannot determine (except for his superior, the BOD of NKF).

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by therat
    They still have 189Million in the reserve.
    Reserves are money kept for future. How they managed the reserves is the impt part.

    NKF may have (i don't know) a policy whereby they consiously build up reserves. For example, for every million donated, 20% will be saved as reserves and not used. That left 800k for use.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    $25K a month!
    ppl work 1 yr, he just need to work 1 mth
    ppl work 12 yrs, to match his 1 yrs salary
    ppl need to work 24 yrs , to match his 1 yrs salary+ 12mth bonus.

    No wonder, the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    I don't mind paying $1million annually to a guy who can generate a $100 million for me in return. I don't understand what's the "hypes" about. The money from donations are re-invested. Pirority is to save more patients who can't afford their treatments.

    Society always support the underdogs. This is no exceptional.
    How about donating $100 millions to a person who pockets $99 millions?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by yowch
    Leadership: Steve Job announced that he will be paid minimum salary (US$1 per year) until he turns Apple around. I have heard of church pastors who, while being pegged to civil servants, saw their own salaries rise to levels much higher than their church members (obviously doing a good job, and certainly deserving a high pay) but decides to limit ther own pay for the good of the church.

    NKF shouldn't be such a difficult organisation to run that you need a $25,000/mth CEO. And 12 months bonus for performance? For organising monkey-shows?

    I have stopped giving to most 'un-disclosing' organisations since the case when I was asked to buy a 'food discount voucher' for donatin to Rainbow Club. I dig into the 'seller' and he knew no details. Then I checked and found out: $10 voucher will give total $15 of food discounts (if you go and eat at those places within 1 month), pays the distributing (voucher-selling) company $5.00, and donated $1 to Rainbow Club! $1 out of $10!!!! I should just walk to Rainbow Club's door and give them the $10. Similarly now NKF.

    From Hommie's post on the Kidney Dialysis Foundation, http://www.kdf.org.sg/reports.htm the average salary of their staff of 20 (considering 3 months bonus) is about $1600 per month.

    BTW, 3 month's bonus would be GREAT news to me. I had never had more than 1 month in the 7 years that I have worked.
    Steve job is not a good example. He may be paid $1 until Apple is profitable but do not forget that his motivation is not so much in salary and bonus but rather the shares he owns in APPLE. if APPLE do well, his fortune soars and he will prob get a big dividend payout as well. Similarly, Bill gates is prob not the most well paid guy as well.

    Those that earns big moneys are professional managers, hired guns to do the job. People like Jack Welch etc.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by therat
    ppl work 1 yr, he just need to work 1 mth
    ppl work 12 yrs, to match his 1 yrs salary
    ppl need to work 24 yrs , to match his 1 yrs salary+ 12mth bonus.

    No wonder, the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger.
    think u forget to calculate expenditure as well... hehehe... a production operator can only dream of having his 1 mth pay in savings...

    i am also curious if he have all his expenditure covered by NKF...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa
    I got this from the NKF's site :-

    "We have set up an independent Audit Committee to provide advice on enhancing existing cost-effective measures and implement new ones. The NKFS is the first and only charity in Singapore to set up such a committee, although charities in Singapore are not required to do so.

    Finance Committee

    We have instituted an independent Finance Committee comprising experts from the financial services sector to provide sound financial advice, oversee all major financial decisions and evaluate investment alternatives. "

    And http://www.nkfs.org/finance%20data.htm is their Financial summery.

    I think this is more than what a charitable organization would have done.
    It is nice that the NKF has set this up.

    Now, when I first migrated here in 1998, I was very surprised to see that a charity is being put up for public flogging. I was to learn later that this was due to a very serious problem, an absolute lack of transparency in the process of funds handling in the charity. Put this same situation in where I came from, and this charity would be dead in less than a week from lawsuits.

    Would the NKF have been better served in the first place if they came totally clean or transparent in their accounts? Would we have needed the NKF to set up these committees for better transparency? It's nagging issues like these that continue to make the public doubt them.

    Mind you, setting up these committees don't come free. It's more administrative costs for NKF to run these committees.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman
    thats why when i heard that their staff got alot of pay from my friend who work inside b4, i stop donating. my friend also cannot tahan the pay system that she left, because those money was 4 needy, not inside their pocket.

    But my friend say, the staff strongly feel they deserve such pay, y? Cos, they crack their brains to get those money and event etc going...........WHAT A LOUSY EXCUSE.
    staff... marketing and sale guy arrr....

    service ppl crack what head..

  11. #171

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    I also stop donated to NKF like one year ago.

    Quite obvious already then that they had TOO MUCH money already...

  12. #172
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    i still cannot understand why a charitable organisation NEEDS to run like a commercial business entity. when it comes to business, who talks about charity?

  13. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    i still cannot understand why a charitable organisation NEEDS to run like a commercial business entity. when it comes to business, who talks about charity?
    no pun, but think you might have inadvertently answered your own question.

    precisely in business NO ONE talks about charity, that Charity needs to be run like a business to get that attention/respect.

    looking at the report today, paid $600K annual for a $100mil income. actually not TOO bad. both ways that is, as in from the earner as well as from the org.
    Last edited by itisnottheendorg; 12th July 2005 at 11:39 AM.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    no pun, but think you might have inadvertently answered your own question.

    precisely in business NO ONE talks about charity, that Charity needs to be run like a business to get that attention.

    looking at the report today, paid $600K annual for a $100mil income. actually not TOO bad. both ways that is.
    huh? i totally disagree.

    this is indirectly saying that Singapore is a society based totally on business sense and no room for Charities to survive unless they adopt the money-making model. are we such a society? if that is the case something is seriously wrong.
    Last edited by eikin; 12th July 2005 at 11:42 AM.

  15. #175

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    lets not misunderstand my approach..

    1. singapore is one the last place where charity is a free lunch. this been ingrained into our entire culture at all levels. perhaps a agenda of fear is whats driving them on. then again taps and first class flights and 12mths bonus blew the confidence away and puts the integrity on examination..precsiely whats happening now in court.

    2. 600k is great for a earner..ANY earner.

    3. Paying out 600k in return for a 100mil income (or maybe lesser, say 1/5 that, ard 20mil conservatively) is still a good odds for an org…ANY org. that’s a but 3% payout. Would any businessman loves that ratio to someone they knew can bring in the rest 97?

    4. the whole matter is blown out of proportion in precisely how they wanted to hold down the lid on their expenditure, esp pay structure. Becos every man and woman whos a donor on the street will TEND directly equate/relate his or her $50 to that 600k pool going to a single guy and not the larger 19.4mil that inevidently came in together.
    Last edited by itisnottheendorg; 12th July 2005 at 11:56 AM.

  16. #176
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa
    They are transparent, they posted a financial report.
    ST suffers because there are half truths about the report.
    Hahahaha, wonder how Enron happened?

  17. #177
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    So how? Is the "Buy espn a D2X" fund going to happen?

  18. #178

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    Given the "gambler-instinct" in Singaporeans, it's not that difficult to raise money through all these "charity" shows. Pardon me, but are Singaporeans *truly* charitable? Or are they attracted by the lucky draws? To many "donors", it's like buying 4D (you are in fact buying a lucky draw ticket). If you are truly donating, you are entitled to tax deduction against your assessable income, but these lucky draws are not donations. I have always been irked by celebrities' comments that "woah, singaporeans very charitable"... sounds like mockery to me (when you know the ugly truths)...

    Personally, I have always donated directly to the charities, never through these shows and I encourage all Singaporeans to do so. Please kindly take a look at the list of IPCs in Singapore (with links to their websites):
    http://www.iras.gov.sg/esvportal/oth...ty/ipcList.asp

    Donating to these charities is easy - it comes down to whether or not you want to do it. Simply send in a cheque. Many also accept credit card payments (some even online). And you will be truly donating to the needy - not betting on some lucky draws or feeding the pockets of the undeserving...

    For those donating to Community Chest, you may like to note the following:
    How much of my donation actually goes to help the disadvantaged?
    All donations go to the charities under the Community Chest. Our longstanding partner, Singapore Pools, covers the administrative and operating costs incurred by the Community Chest. So, when you support the Community Chest, you can be assured that every dollar raised goes to benefit someone in need.

    P/S: The NKF Cancer Fund is the most ridiculous thing that can ever happen. Do we not already have the Singapore Cancer Society? Do we need "competition"?

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Steve job is not a good example. He may be paid $1 until Apple is profitable but do not forget that his motivation is not so much in salary and bonus but rather the shares he owns in APPLE. if APPLE do well, his fortune soars and he will prob get a big dividend payout as well. Similarly, Bill gates is prob not the most well paid guy as well.

    Those that earns big moneys are professional managers, hired guns to do the job. People like Jack Welch etc.
    Yup, but you hit my point - motivation.

    Durai was not only drawing a high salary (which I don't care if he really deserves it, or earned it, or whatever) or a high bonus (I confess, I do envy this), he was sueing people who commented that he was spending out of his entitlement. He is entitled to second-class air tickets, but he used the most expensive second class ticket as a base, then pays for the cheaper first-class ticket. This is also the judge's judgement. His motivation is to gain for himself - and I hope that is not NKF's idea. With a leader of such motivation, surely NKF is steered towards self-centeredness (amassing large fortunes), not something we expect out of a charity. When he was questioned, he says that his pay is private, not quite the transparency that NKF claims.

    I have mentioned that the 20 staff of KDF draws about $1600/mth. NKF's 996 staff draws an average of about $1500/mth according to their report, and that's quite standard. Obviously, the top is being paid very well, probably representative of a business, not necessarily for a charity.

  20. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    ...this is indirectly saying that Singapore is a society based totally on business sense and no room for Charities to survive unless they adopt the money-making model.
    no pun really, but short of saying Y*S, do anyone wants to try a hand at tackling this?..

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