View Poll Results: After reading this, will you still donate to NKF?

Voters
244. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, why not?

    13 5.33%
  • No, not any more

    207 84.84%
  • Not sure now

    24 9.84%
Page 16 of 99 FirstFirst ... 611141516171821264166 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 1973

Thread: Consolidated NKF Thread

  1. #301
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redStX
    err....1st person named is the PM ley!!
    hehe... opppsss shd be Lee Hsien Yang...

  2. #302
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poohbear
    I understand your pt , but i guess it's time the BOD and the regulatory authority starts to review the whole thing. TOo much money for them to play around liao ....
    yah.. totally agreed. I almost joined them as Internal Auditor... heng ah....

  3. #303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    So what you saying is because it's a charity, you cannot pay for staffs (all must be volunteer?) or just not overpaid?

    I believe NKF have some guidelines on how much they can pay (assuming their finance/audit committee and BOD is doing their job).

    All i can say is how much he has paid is irrelavant. Impt is how much he has contributed and is he overpaid or paid fairly.
    Of course they have to pay staff, but not overpay them. And please, NKF guidelines? The Board is obviously as well paid as Durai so don't expect them to make any noise about these excesses.

    How much he is paid is not only relevant, it is PUBLIC INTEREST. Even CEOs and Ministers have to disclose their salaries, who is Durai that he should be given such special privacy treatment?? If the public knew that NKF could pay him $600k and send him on first class travel, they would use their hard earned money to give to OTHER charities who would use it for wheelchairs and hearing aids, etc.

    You seem to advocate that the ends justify the means. They do not. And many poorer Singaporeans who still give of their hard-earned money to help the needy will not appreciate Durai's excesses when clearly NKF has more money than it can properly dispense.

    That's why NKF moved into cancer fund - after the reserves issue blew up, people realised that the money they were hoarding and using for "admin expenses" was greatly disproportionate to the pool of kidney beneficiaries, so NKF has to create a new pool of supposed beneficiaries to justify the huge reserves.

  4. #304
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East of Singapore
    Posts
    1,750

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    yqt... he being blantly honest lah... in short... we are all stupid...
    yah lor, so stupid to donate to NKF.
    So does that means that he's good at raising money not because he's good at his job but because we're stupid? Aiyah!!! too stupid to fig. it out. Can help me or not?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  5. #305
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Not really, for Singtel's CEO Mr Lee is paid $2.3 million annually. He received S$2.1 million - came in the form of cash and other benefits. Mr Lee was also granted performance shares worth about S$1.8 million.

    If you don't lump the shares(valuation would change according to market) and other options together, they not more than the basic of a yearly income.
    My friend, 2.1m in cash and other benefits includes bonus share etc... It is not what he earns from shares. What it means is the cost to the company to give him the option and thus what he earns is much more than his basic salary.

    Imagine it's worse in US, Claria Forlani, the ousted CEO of HP is still getting something like US$49m after being sacked! that's overpayment.

  6. #306

    Default

    Since it is a charitable organisation, the issue is about balancing the diverging interests of various stakeholders which are critical to good governance.

    The key elements of good governance are F.A.R.T.
    These four values are :
    1) Fairness
    2) Accountability
    3) Responsibility and
    4) Transparency

    Compare and contrast these four values to what have been written on the NKF's website :

    What sets us apart

    "We have followed the practices and policies of world-renowned successful institutions and of our own government. These include values such as DISCIPLINE, PERSISTENCE, THRIFT and DYNAMISM. We have put in place strong fundamentals in every aspect of our management. Our results are contingent upon our PRUDENT POLICIES, SOUND ADMINISTRATION and TRANSPARENCY. The achievements and the accolades that have come our way in the last 36 years belong to our donors and the people of Singapore."

    What do we do

    "The answer is simple. We do it with public support, with COMPLETE HONESTY, DISCIPLINE and DEDICATION. We donít believe in charity as supplication. We believe in charity as social enterprise. We believe in innovation and in the principles of total quality management and kaizen. This is why we inculcate a lot of corporate strategies in our operations."
    Last edited by AEC; 12th July 2005 at 05:05 PM.

  7. #307
    Senior Member poohbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Sengkang
    Posts
    1,163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungPAP
    We got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Though i do not like it that my donations intended to fund the dialysis patients are used in parts to pay the bonuses of the management, we have to accept that in this world, we got to reward performance with money. You have to judge for your self if a ggod job has been done. However it would be a great gesture if those who benefits, give back in money or in kinds or in organs to the company that gives them.
    Reward performance with monetary awards , fair ! but 12 months ??!! work 1 year free 1 year ah ??

  8. #308
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    Of course they have to pay staff, but not overpay them. And please, NKF guidelines? The Board is obviously as well paid as Durai so don't expect them to make any noise about these excesses.

    How much he is paid is not only relevant, it is PUBLIC INTEREST. Even CEOs and Ministers have to disclose their salaries, who is Durai that he should be given such special privacy treatment?? If the public knew that NKF could pay him $600k and send him on first class travel, they would use their hard earned money to give to OTHER charities who would use it for wheelchairs and hearing aids, etc.

    You seem to advocate that the ends justify the means. They do not. And many poorer Singaporeans who still give of their hard-earned money to help the needy will not appreciate Durai's excesses when clearly NKF has more money than it can properly dispense.

    That's why NKF moved into cancer fund - after the reserves issue blew up, people realised that the money they were hoarding and using for "admin expenses" was greatly disproportionate to the pool of kidney beneficiaries, so NKF has to create a new pool of supposed beneficiaries to justify the huge reserves.
    Thats where you are wrong... If i am not wrong, BOD mostly are volunteers... even if they are paid, they will be paid less than CEO as they will prob get a director fee or honorarium...

  9. #309
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East of Singapore
    Posts
    1,750

    Default

    [QUOTE=XPeriment626]
    Quote Originally Posted by Goondoo
    A friend over the other forum did a summarisation.../QUOTE]

    Don't think this comparison is accurate. Remember, the NKF financial statement shows two different items of expenditure that include salary costs. The salary of the NKF top management will definitely skew the average way off so it has probably been moved to be hidden under "Administrative Costs" (which in their financial statement they admit does include salaries). Thus the figure in the comparison above only refers to the rank-and-file salaried workers at the dialysis centres, not the folks who get to use $900 taps.
    If this is true that the question will be " why do you need to hide? " and " what else are you hidding "
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  10. #310
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    My friend, 2.1m in cash and other benefits includes bonus share etc... It is not what he earns from shares. What it means is the cost to the company to give him the option and thus what he earns is much more than his basic salary.

    Imagine it's worse in US, Claria Forlani, the ousted CEO of HP is still getting something like US$49m after being sacked! that's overpayment.
    My friend, his BASIC IS S$2.3 million. Get it? 2.1 million is cash and other benefits.

  11. #311
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    How much he is paid is not only relevant, it is PUBLIC INTEREST. Even CEOs and Ministers have to disclose their salaries, who is Durai that he should be given such special privacy treatment?? If the public knew that NKF could pay him $600k and send him on first class travel, they would use their hard earned money to give to OTHER charities who would use it for wheelchairs and hearing aids, etc.
    Yes, it's in public interest but voluntary disclosure since no law states that. Do you see CEO of say KDF/Community Chest/SGH etc disclose his salary? Where did you get the salary of Ministers? It is not disclosed, all we know if the range...

    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    You seem to advocate that the ends justify the means. They do not. And many poorer Singaporeans who still give of their hard-earned money to help the needy will not appreciate Durai's excesses when clearly NKF has more money than it can properly dispense.

    That's why NKF moved into cancer fund - after the reserves issue blew up, people realised that the money they were hoarding and using for "admin expenses" was greatly disproportionate to the pool of kidney beneficiaries, so NKF has to create a new pool of supposed beneficiaries to justify the huge reserves.
    Does the ends justify the means? I guess so. Just like would anyone question how much LKY is paid so long as he does a good job to change SG? Not likely. As for why they moved into cancer fund, i am not sure and will not know.

    Donation is a big pie, i do not agree them using TV shows to attract donations. I rather see someone like NCSS to be the chief donation organisation and for them to allocate funds. That way there's more accountablity. As it is, some deservedly organisations may not get sufficient funding as they do not have things like TV shows.

  12. #312
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    My friend, his BASIC IS S$2.3 million. Get it? 2.1 million is cash and other benefits.
    Ok. i misunderstood your wordings but isnt that 100% already or almost? equivalent to 10-12mths bonus right?

  13. #313

    Default

    I now jobless, just sent in a resume to NKF for a job...

    I requested for only $5k per mth, 3 mths bonus, for the job of CEO. Hope u all dun undercut me pls...

  14. #314
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East of Singapore
    Posts
    1,750

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    There is no statutory requirement to let u know how much the CEO earns or how much NKF saved each year as it's not listed. This is the same case as Temasek Holdings, there is no need for disclosure. Unless the govt acted on it, they are entitled to disclose whatever details them wanted to.

    Even for listed companies, the CEO salary need not be disclosed to public, just disclosing the band, say how many execs earn 100-500k, 500k-1m, 1m and above etc. So still subject to your interpretation.

    When you donate, you already know you have to pay for the staff salary, rental, advertising etc. For the tV show, they prob need to get sponsors from OSim etc.

    As for the tap, i agree thats a bit extravagant.... but maybe you did not visit the building.... i can tell you the tap is nothing compared to the building and reno....
    Yeah, I guess it boils down to them to tell us the figs.

    Buy the way, All of us better pray hard that NKF win the court case, if not, it will be our doantions, again, that will fund this court case.

    What a bummer.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  15. #315
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    [QUOTE=yqt]
    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626

    If this is true that the question will be " why do you need to hide? " and " what else are you hidding "
    It may not be a conscientious effort to hide lah... Accounting standards sometimes makes it difficult to see the whole pic. If you have the full financial statements, usually a full disclousre of total staff costs is required (for listed companies) but not sure if it applies for Charities... I don't think so as i audited quite a few before....

  16. #316
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    There is no statutory requirement to let u know how much the CEO earns or how much NKF saved each year as it's not listed. This is the same case as Temasek Holdings, there is no need for disclosure. Unless the govt acted on it, they are entitled to disclose whatever details them wanted to.

    Even for listed companies, the CEO salary need not be disclosed to public, just disclosing the band, say how many execs earn 100-500k, 500k-1m, 1m and above etc. So still subject to your interpretation.

    When you donate, you already know you have to pay for the staff salary, rental, advertising etc. For the tV show, they prob need to get sponsors from OSim etc.

    As for the tap, i agree thats a bit extravagant.... but maybe you did not visit the building.... i can tell you the tap is nothing compared to the building and reno....
    I think its not fair to compare NFK with other "commercial" corporation since the "profit" are generated differently. I would prefer to compare with a priest becoming a millionaire from donations. If I give money to SingNet, I get the service I want so again, comparison is misleading.

    And I agree that staff needs to be paid but 25K monthly salary with 12 months bonus (around 50K per month)? And then imagine yourself donating $50, along with the heartache of giving up your hardearned money, you are also proud of knowing you made a difference to someone... and now you realize it ended up as a bathroom tap. Hmm... does that mean we are shareholder of that tap?

  17. #317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    I now jobless, just sent in a resume to NKF for a job...

    I requested for only $5k per mth, 3 mths bonus, for the job of CEO. Hope u all dun undercut me pls...
    darn u beat me to it.

  18. #318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Thats where you are wrong... If i am not wrong, BOD mostly are volunteers... even if they are paid, they will be paid less than CEO as they will prob get a director fee or honorarium...
    cmon, you think all those MDs and GMs from big companies will "volunteer" their extremely expensive time to be board members for nothing. They obviously get large directors' fees as well. The guy who was sued in 1998 by NKF, he said that the board of directors also flew first-class. Surely you don't think Durai can get away with these excesses if the Board weren't so well paid at the same time?


    on a (slightly) unrelated point:
    http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...dpost&p=421188

  19. #319
    Senior Member poohbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Sengkang
    Posts
    1,163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    There is no statutory requirement to let u know how much the CEO earns or how much NKF saved each year as it's not listed. This is the same case as Temasek Holdings, there is no need for disclosure. Unless the govt acted on it, they are entitled to disclose whatever details them wanted to.
    Well ... if NKF's supposed charity organisation is a biz modal like temasek holdings , I got nothing to say liao ...Mrs Lee is not using my money so I wouldn't care how much she earns , but if durai/NKF BOD is using public's money aka yours and mine $$ to fund his perks, then I think the public has the right to know.

  20. #320
    Deregistered
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Planet Nikon
    Posts
    21,905

    Default

    So how?

    Support the "Buy espn a D2X" fund. Come come!!!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •