View Poll Results: After reading this, will you still donate to NKF?

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Thread: Consolidated NKF Thread

  1. #261
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.
    What's their basic?

  2. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by itisnottheendorg
    i think i might start my GIRO donation to NKF end of this week..i am going to get King's treatment despite my $1 goodwill..becos then i be the last few remaining 'loyalists'

    who knows maybe i get VIP seats to the next [emtpy] NKF show!
    Excellent idea! Finally I have a chance to win BIG prizes on the monthly lottery (some call it charity) shows! hurray ....

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin


    i beg to differ, if he truely wants to save for the organisation, should not he consider flying business class with the airlines that offer the lower price range?

    by quoting the cost of flying business class on an expensive airline, is not one trying to spend as much as possible?
    If he wants to save money for the organisation, he can take economy.

    For example, when i fly, i can theortically fly business class if it exceeds 5hrs but usually i won't as i dun see the need to fly business class unless it's a long flight to say London/US etc.

    In his situation, his entitlement is clearly stated as Business class for SIA (Not sure which idiot sets it, but still it's wthin his rights). By asking him to not fly business class is also not right. By asking him to fly another airlines is also not right.

    If he choose a cheaper option, it is within his rights as long as NKF don't pay more.

    Different co. have different policy. A very famous MNC co. that i audited before, they have the so called best economic fare. they will compare the fares and take into consideration other factors before deciding what airlines to take. (ie. safety, schedule etc).

    A lot of time, it's easy for non-business travelor to critise without considering other factors. I am not defending him but rather point out the facts.

    For example, if he suppose to meet a foreign donor (Say can donate 1m/year) in US, the meeting is schedule say at 8am in the morning (busy donor think bill gates/george bush) and not a minute late. If SIA business class have seats but can only reach there at 9am, it's of no use to him. On the other hand, if Northwest airlines 1st class have seat (assume business class is sold out) and can reach there at 6am. Which do you think the BOD will put him into?

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    hello??? Jackson Tai and Wee Cho Yow do not send you exploitative colour brochures with pictures of children with disabilities begging you to part with your money!


    i really gotta agree with you on this... really spot on!
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  5. #265

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    Did you guys know that a similar case had happened in 1998? Here's the 1998 article (from http://www.dpa.org.sg/news/news_december_1998-4.htm):

    --

    NKF chief gets public apology

    AN AERO-MODELLING instructor has apologised in two newspapers today for making "false and defamatory allegations" against the chief executive officer of the National Kidney Foundation (NKF).
    In a statement yesterday, NKF said the man who placed the notices, Mr Piragasam Singaravelu, had alleged that he saw the NKF CEO, Mr T. T. Durai, travelling first-class on Singapore Airlines and had insinuated that Mr Durai had used NKF funds meant for patients.

    In the apology notice,which appears in The Straits Times and Lianhe Zaobao today, Mr Piragasam admitted that he had lied and "concocted false allegations" against Mr Durai.

    He also retracted his statements, which he described as "mean, laced with venom" and "calculated to insult and humiliate Mr Durai without any just cause whatsoever and without any regard to the truth".

    Mr Piragasam had scrawled his statements in an NKF appeal letter to him for donations dated March 16. On it, he said he had seen Mr Durai in SIA's First Class cabin, adding: "Now,if you could travel economy like some CEOs do, then you may not have to beg so much! Kidney patients would benefit through your sacrifice. Get it?"

    The foundation received his reply on March 18. It was circulated in the office before reaching Mr Durai.

    NKF said that Mr Durai then asked his secretary to inform Mr Piragasam that the allegations were untrue.

    Mr Alwyn Lim, the NKF's finance committee chairman, contacted Mr Piragasam and offered him access to NKF's financial accounts.

    Both times, Mr Piragasam did not apologise or retract his allegations. Nor did he take up the offer to inspect NKF's accounts. Mr Durai then initiated legal action against Mr Piragasam.

    Last month, Mr Piragasam admitted he had lied and paid an undisclosed sum in damages and legal costs to Mr Durai, which the CEO has donated to NKF.

    In the NKF statement, Mr Durai said he had taken action against Mr Piragasam because it was not simply a personal attack on his character. Left unchallenged, such allegations would erode the foundation's status and affect the care of its patients.

    "Public sympathy towards the foundation would diminish, and along with it, crucial donations vital to its operation," said Mr Durai.

    This is not the first time that the NKF chief has received a public apology.

    An ex-volunteer, Mr Archie Ong Liang Gay, took out a notice in two newspapers earlier this year for making the same allegation: That Mr Durai abused public donations to travel first-class.

    An NKF spokesman said Mr Durai does not travel first-class. He flies economy on short-haul flights and business class on long-haul flights.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    hello??? Jackson Tai and Wee Cho Yow do not send you exploitative colour brochures with pictures of children with disabilities begging you to part with your money!
    True... But do not forget the fact that one is charity and the other is not. I do agree that paying him the kind of money is excessive but the KEY is does he deserve it?

    If he can get 100m donation a year and earn 600k a year whereas another CEO can only get 50m donation a year and earns 50k. I will still hire him. One needs to look at the big picture.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Yes but all of them are from companies that provide a service to a paying customer. For NKF their monies come from people who donate for the sole purpose of helping the sick.
    Yup, i know that. But how many of us also know that by sending a cheque, NKF gets 100% of the funds whereas by donating thru phones during TV shows whereby Zoe Tay performs, Singtel also get a cut per call?

    When u make a donation, you know that part of it will not go to the patients/ultimate user. Thats why i only donate directly or give directly say to those visually-impaired or buy tissues from those old people. You help them directly and only them.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    What's their basic?
    Cannot recall by in excess of S$1m i think...

  9. #269
    Senior Member poohbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    .

    A lot of time, it's easy for non-business travelor to critise without considering other factors. I am not defending him but rather point out the facts.

    For example, if he suppose to meet a foreign donor (Say can donate 1m/year) in US, the meeting is schedule say at 8am in the morning (busy donor think bill gates/george bush) and not a minute late. If SIA business class have seats but can only reach there at 9am, it's of no use to him. On the other hand, if Northwest airlines 1st class have seat (assume business class is sold out) and can reach there at 6am. Which do you think the BOD will put him into?
    SO u think that's the case here ?? He going on 1st class to meet potential donor of a million dollars ?? Who knows , nobody knows , maybe maybe not , but the rationale behind is that he did indeed travel 1st class. If referring to your case , why can't he opt for the economy class , why must upgrade instead of going down ? U see , he answered himself , it's his entitlement and it's not the assumed situation as describe above.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    True... But do not forget the fact that one is charity and the other is not. I do agree that paying him the kind of money is excessive but the KEY is does he deserve it?

    If he can get 100m donation a year and earn 600k a year whereas another CEO can only get 50m donation a year and earns 50k. I will still hire him. One needs to look at the big picture.
    actually the point now is... if he work for the private sector, i guess his pay is justified, but he is in the charitable organisation, its not a place where you are rewarded more for the more donations you can get... if i think we can get commision from donations, y not make NKF a MLM?
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  11. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Excellent idea! Finally I have a chance to win BIG prizes on the monthly lottery (some call it charity) shows! hurray ....

    heyhey DONT fight with me lei...give me the poor man with 2-room flat, never seen business flights (but take them before then again you ask seen, NOT taken right?) a winning chance once la...never won 4d toto...

    shucks should have kept quiet like N*F CEO when he took 1st class flights...

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by poohbear
    SO u think that's the case here ?? He going on 1st class to meet potential donor of a million dollars ?? Who knows , nobody knows , maybe maybe not , but the rationale behind is that he did indeed travel 1st class. If referring to your case , why can't he opt for the economy class , why must upgrade instead of going down ? U see , he answered himself , it's his entitlement and it's not the assumed situation as describe above.
    Yup, it's his entitlement and thus within his rights.

    Just like my leave entitlement is 14 days and if my boss ask me to forfeit one day, i will request for compensation.

    For his case, i believe even by flying 1st class, he still pay less than or equal to flying SIA business class (yes, it's that overpriced) so he did save money. As for why he chooses to do so, only he can answer but it is well within his rights unless his contract states that he can only FLY BUSINESS CLASS.

    anyway, a disclaimer, i donno him and not defending him. I just looked at things objectively (occupational hazard) and says what i think is right from business/accounting perspective. Morally, maybe he shd fly economy and not have salary!

  13. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    True... But do not forget the fact that one is charity and the other is not. I do agree that paying him the kind of money is excessive but the KEY is does he deserve it?

    If he can get 100m donation a year and earn 600k a year whereas another CEO can only get 50m donation a year and earns 50k. I will still hire him. One needs to look at the big picture.
    If he can get 100m donation a year, and uses 10m for kidney patients, and another can only get 50m a year but uses 30m for kidney patients, I would like the first guy to be fired. The key is whether the board who hires the CEO thinks that "more money raised, less going to beneficiaries" is better or "less money raised, but more goes to beneficiaries". This is a charity, not a profit-driven business. And it is taking our money not for investment or profit generation, otherwise we would have "invested" elsewhere. Using deception to raise more money for his own luxurious lifestyle does not make him a good CEO.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.
    Did they ask for your money for the sake of the needy with tears?

  15. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    From another forum I heard that there was quite a long queue at the banks to cancel donations to NKF. But apparently, the banks said that in order to cancel, it must be done from NKF side. So one was they did was to transfer all the money into another account leaving $1 left...

    Not true...

    I have just terminate it ...

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    actually the point now is... if he work for the private sector, i guess his pay is justified, but he is in the charitable organisation, its not a place where you are rewarded more for the more donations you can get... if i think we can get commision from donations, y not make NKF a MLM?
    it doesn't work that way, i think as CEO, his task is not solicit funds/donation directly.

    How it works is he prob need to get a patron (in this case i think is SM GOH) to gives the cause legitimacy. If it's you and me, you think you can get SM GOH to be patron?

    Also, he will need to hire and fire staffs, give general directions (even donation targets for all we know), plan the events/publicity etc.

    All these are commercial in nature.If you can find any organisation thats 100% volunteer-staffed, i will be very surprised.

  17. #277
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    Orignal question:
    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Davinder Singh: $1.8 million, I wonder what is wrong. $1.8 million. Should the man who takes $50 out of his pay packet of $1,000, leaving $950 for him, his wife and his children, with no savings, should he not know that some of that money is going or has gone into a $500,000 to $600,000 pay package for you?
    The reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Judge: No. The question is, should that person know that you are earning $500,000, $600,000 a year? It is a simple question.

    T.T. Durai: No, your honour, I do not see a need for him to know.
    Someone need to take him down from his high horse and plant his feet firmly on the ground.



    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Davinder Singh: You would lose all authority, all moral authority to look at him in his eyes, isn't that right?

    T.T. Durai: That is not true.


    Davinder Singh: If he knew that you were flying first class on his money, you could not look him in his eyes, isn't that true?

    T.T. Durai: It is not true.


    Davinder Singh: If he knew that his salary couldn't even buy the bathroom fittings in your private office suite, you couldn't look him in his eyes.

    T.T. Durai: That is not true.
    After all this, he still can look you in the eyes and say:
    " Yes, I earn $600K a year for the last 3 years, from your donation."
    " Yes, I fly first class on your donation."
    " Yes, I use a $990 tap using your donation."
    Oh man.....



    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Davinder Singh: The man in his HDB one-room, two-room, three-room flat, earning a salary of $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 - would he find that tap at $990 plus 10 per cent discount expensive?

    T.T. Durai: He may consider it expensive, yes.


    Davinder Singh: He may, or will he?

    T.T. Durai: If he is an educated person, if he knows the use of the particular office, for what purpose, he may probably think it is something reasonable.
    So now all of us who think he's wrong for using a $990 tap is uneducated.

    NKF needs to seriouslly relook at themself and us donators need to do the same.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  18. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitkat
    Not true...

    I have just terminate it ...
    oki, thx for clearing that up

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPeriment626
    If he can get 100m donation a year, and uses 10m for kidney patients, and another can only get 50m a year but uses 30m for kidney patients, I would like the first guy to be fired. The key is whether the board who hires the CEO thinks that "more money raised, less going to beneficiaries" is better or "less money raised, but more goes to beneficiaries". This is a charity, not a profit-driven business. And it is taking our money not for investment or profit generation, otherwise we would have "invested" elsewhere. Using deception to raise more money for his own luxurious lifestyle does not make him a good CEO.
    Yes, if the amt used on patients is the way you say, i would also fired him. But likelihood is the more he raised, more will go to patient (due to 70% requirement for all charitable organisations).

  20. #280
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    From an ordinary man on the street, the trust is broken...
    I lup SG, but SG don't love me...

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