View Poll Results: After reading this, will you still donate to NKF?

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  • Yes, why not?

    13 5.33%
  • No, not any more

    207 84.84%
  • Not sure now

    24 9.84%
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Thread: Consolidated NKF Thread

  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    eh... i think u shouldn't put words in his mouth...

    anyway i also believe that, when you pay peanuts you get monkeys.. in the business world.. cos everyone is out for the money.. this model however does not work on the those highly motivated for the good of others like charitable organisations and spiritual followers. but i've seen that nowadays money really makes wonders that even those who should not have such greed have fallen...
    Just kidding, but seriously, there are plenty of folks who run charitable organisations in Singapore and the world over and DON'T get paid much, yet do a wonderful job. For charities, it really isn't true that you get a monkey when you pay peanuts. These folks don't get the recognition they deserve, because charities aren't too 'sexy', but they do good work without expecting material rewards.

  2. #242

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    Don't know about you guys, but I'm certainly eager to see how the public reacts to donation calls at the next NKF show.

  3. #243

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    From another forum I heard that there was quite a long queue at the banks to cancel donations to NKF. But apparently, the banks said that in order to cancel, it must be done from NKF side. So one was they did was to transfer all the money into another account leaving $1 left...

  4. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfhuang
    Don't know about you guys, but I'm certainly eager to see how the public reacts to donation calls at the next NKF show.
    It'll do well, I should think.

  5. #245

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    dont know about you guys...but the NEXT show, if there be one, i will be ringing the phones. 2 reasons..

    1. the charge per call will dip for sure

    2. lesser call-ins...mean higher chance to win EVEN HIGHER PRIZES now!!!.. hahaha

    good. very singaporean. very opportunistic.

  6. #246

    Lightbulb

    why from NKF side? $ are deducted from donors' accounts. certainly, donors do not need their NKF's consent to cancel future donations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    From another forum I heard that there was quite a long queue at the banks to cancel donations to NKF. But apparently, the banks said that in order to cancel, it must be done from NKF side. So one was they did was to transfer all the money into another account leaving $1 left...

  7. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    why from NKF side? $ are deducted from donors' accounts. certainly, donors do not need their NKF's consent to cancel future donations.
    Dunno, but apparently when they asked to cancel the monthly Giro deductions, the banks said it wasn't Giro, so had to cancel from NKF side... and they're not picking up the phones today...

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa
    I got this from the NKF's site :-

    "We have set up an independent Audit Committee to provide advice on enhancing existing cost-effective measures and implement new ones. The NKFS is the first and only charity in Singapore to set up such a committee, although charities in Singapore are not required to do so.

    Finance Committee

    We have instituted an independent Finance Committee comprising experts from the financial services sector to provide sound financial advice, oversee all major financial decisions and evaluate investment alternatives. "

    And http://www.nkfs.org/finance%20data.htm is their Financial summery.

    I think this is more than what a charitable organization would have done.
    Nonsense. The Financial summary is all about fudging. If you read carefully you will see that there are TWO salary expenditures, one for $27m (at the bottom) presumably for the 996 employees they have at the various centres, and ANOTHER $8m expenditure which states (includes salary cost). Where does this extra money go? To the NKF top management? Obviously.

    And I find it ridiculous that people are comparing Durai's work with that of a CEO and saying that he should be paid for "managing" a large fund. THESE ARE NOT INVESTMENTS. Investments are monies put in by shareholders/investors with their "eyes open" with the intent to realise some profit. NKF monies given by the public who were misled into thinking the bulk would go to kidney patients. If NKF told you up front how much Durai was earning would you still donate so much? He has abused the goodwill and trust of the public and deceived people who are trying to help others. How about the lawsuits against people who made remarks about the air travel? He is not only a liar, he is vindictive and not fit to be in charge of public money. The key word is TRUST. People trusted NKF to use their money properly. Durai has demonstrated that he, and that Board of Directors of his, are not to be trusted!

  9. #249

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    A private man's $600,000 pay - is it of public interest?

    SENIOR Counsel Davinder Singh spent some time probing chief executive officer T.T. Durai on the NKF's reluctance since 1999 to disclose the salaries of its senior people.

    Mr Durai confirmed that the issue never went away, and that the organisation's position was that it would not disclose.

    He said salaries are a very personal thing, and as a private person he did not want his disclosed.

    Also, revealing top officers' pay would have made it difficult to recruit people.

    He also saw no legal requirement to disclose his pay.

    Mr Singh pointed out that even though there was no legal requirement to release all the information included in the NKF's investment report to the donors, that had been done.

    Counsel said that the absence of legal obligations was therefore not an obstacle.

    Mr Durai replied: 'It is a personal matter.'

    Counsel remarked: 'I do understand some of that because that is why people travel first class and have a lavish suite for their privacy.'

    He then asked Mr Durai if he thought the public ought to be told if a charity decided to pay its chief executive $25 million a year - funded by donations.

    Mr Durai said at first that he could not comment. But asked repeatedly, he said it would be up to the board of directors. He also said he would go along with the decision not to disclose even if the $25 million was, as Mr Singh put it, 'grossly, grossly exorbitant'.

    'I report to the board,' Mr Durai said.

    Counsel then moved on to the issue of Mr Durai's pay.


    Davinder Singh: In your affidavit, you liken yourself to CEOs of companies and ministers in government, right? Would you agree with me that like ministers in the government, you are being paid out of people's money? Would you agree with me that ministers' salaries are transparent?

    T.T. Durai: Yes.


    Davinder Singh: Would you agree with me that CEOs of listed companies have their salaries published in the newspapers?

    T.T. Durai: Yes.


    Davinder Singh: And you have likened yourself to CEOs of public companies. Why are you not publishing your own information?

    T.T. Durai: I like my salary to remain private. My board members know that. My senior colleagues know that.


    Davinder Singh: We all like our salaries to be private. But if it's funded by the public, which takes precedence? The right of the public to know how much of their money goes to you, or your preference for privacy?

    T.T. Durai: I think it is for the board to decide. The public doesn't control the organisation.


    Davinder Singh: Exactly. Exactly. You see, Mr Durai, the public does not control, it doesn't have access to information. So doesn't that place on you a responsibility?

    T.T. Durai: We comply with all the regulatory requirements. If the regulatory authorities imposed a condition that we have to disclose salaries, we would.


    Davinder Singh: Mr Durai, can you tell this court what your salary and bonuses were for 2002?

    T.T. Durai: I was earning a monthly salary of $25,000.


    Davinder Singh: And your bonus?

    T.T. Durai: Performance bonus was 10 months.


    Davinder Singh: Ten months' bonus! $250,000 bonus. This is for 2002.

    T.T. Durai: I cannot recall the exact figure.


    Davinder Singh: So, if it is $25,000 a month, multiply that by 12, your total package was $550,000 in 2002.

    T.T. Durai: I believe so.


    Davinder Singh: 2003, please?

    T.T. Durai: You have the numbers. I don't have the numbers offhand.


    Davinder Singh: Tell us, please, so that we don't waste time.

    T.T. Durai: About the same I think. I cannot tell you offhand now.


    Davinder Singh: About the same, meaning $550,000 or slightly higher?

    T.T. Durai: About that.


    Davinder Singh: How many months' bonus did you get in 2003?

    T.T. Durai: Twelve months.


    Davinder Singh: In 2004, what was the bonus?

    T.T. Durai: Same bonus.


    Davinder Singh: Twelve months at $25,000 a month.

    T.T. Durai: Yes.


    Davinder Singh: So for the past three years you have earned about $1.8 million from the NKF.

    T.T. Durai: Yes.


    Davinder Singh: And the man who earns $1,000 a month who takes out $50 of his pay packet every month thinking that it is going to save lives, should he not know that that is the kind of money you earn?

    T.T. Durai: There is nothing wrong with the money I earn.


    Davinder Singh: $1.8 million, I wonder what is wrong. $1.8 million. Should the man who takes $50 out of his pay packet of $1,000, leaving $950 for him, his wife and his children, with no savings, should he not know that some of that money is going or has gone into a $500,000 to $600,000 pay package for you?

    T.T. Durai: Surely he knows.


    Davinder Singh: Tell me, how does he know?

    T.T. Durai: Let me explain. People donate money to the NKF to run a dialysis programme that saves lives. We have built a dialysis programme. We run...

    Judge: Please answer the question.


    Davinder Singh: You said: 'Surely he knows.'

    T.T. Durai: No, I am saying a person who contributes to the foundation knows that there are people working in the institution.

    Judge: No. The question is, should that person know that you are earning $500,000, $600,000 a year? It is a simple question.

    T.T. Durai: No, your honour, I do not see a need for him to know.


    Davinder Singh: Thank you. It has nothing to do with privacy. It is about embarrassment, is it not?

    T.T. Durai: No.


    Davinder Singh: You would lose all authority, all moral authority to look at him in his eyes, isn't that right?

    T.T. Durai: That is not true.


    Davinder Singh: If he knew that you were flying first class on his money, you could not look him in his eyes, isn't that true?

    T.T. Durai: It is not true.


    Davinder Singh: If he knew that his salary couldn't even buy the bathroom fittings in your private office suite, you couldn't look him in his eyes.

    T.T. Durai: That is not true.


    Davinder Singh: We now understand why you say the $990 tap is not expensive. Well, coming from you at $600,000 a year, we now know why you say it is not expensive. But tell us, for that man with $1,000/$2,000, is it expensive?

    T.T. Durai: Yes, he may consider it expensive.


    Davinder Singh: He may, or is it? Tell us the truth.

    T.T. Durai: I cannot speak for him. It depends on the type of building, the use of the item.


    Davinder Singh: The man in his HDB one-room, two-room, three-room flat, earning a salary of $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 - would he find that tap at $990 plus 10 per cent discount expensive?

    T.T. Durai: He may consider it expensive, yes.


    Davinder Singh: He may, or will he?

    T.T. Durai: If he is an educated person, if he knows the use of the particular office, for what purpose, he may probably think it is something reasonable.

  10. #250
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    For the time being, NKF will patients will not suffer even if donations stop coming in.
    A true test of NKF will be if they do not get enough funds for the year and they still use their reserves of S$189M to help their paitents something, which I'm sure they will, and must do.
    That's why I stopped donating to them and channel my donations to others like Ren Ci Hospital who, also appear on TV for donations, and are still able to raise $5m+ without lucky draws.
    From what I know, NKF patients have to use up all their monies before NKF will help them. Ren Ci only charge their hospital patients around $18/- a day for bed, med. and treatment reguardless of who or how rich you are. This is what I consider true charity.
    Last edited by yqt; 12th July 2005 at 02:53 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  11. #251

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    Now NKF is suing SPH, not the other way round. So I want to ask, if NKF is to be counter-sued, who would do it in the public's interest to make NKF accountable?

  12. #252
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    The problem here is honesty and humbleness. First class is first class, it doesn't matter what airlines it is. If he had good intention he will travell at business class at other airline with cheaper rate and pass the saving to help more kidney patient. I just do not understand what is the sin of business class travel, it way better than some of use who can only travel on economy class or on budget airlines.
    I still do not believe he paid the difference to get the first class........
    W204FL

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    Luckily you did not donate through your debit/credit card. One of my friend did donate using this way. Guest what! After his card has expired, it stops of course. When his new card arrived, it starts all over again?! How the hell they know his new debit/credit card number?
    One of my friend only wrote his NRIC number on the donation card - no address, no hp num, and guess what, he received a letter from NKF to thank him for the donation.

    Apparently they had some ways to get his address.

  14. #254

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    thnks sfhuang for putting all that up...i read it like the best seller novel i have [never] read [until now]...word for word.

    anymore!? anymore?!..

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Gimme example, the CEO who have those options this few years. The CEO whose bonus exceeds the basic of the WHOLE YEAR.
    Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    From another forum I heard that there was quite a long queue at the banks to cancel donations to NKF. But apparently, the banks said that in order to cancel, it must be done from NKF side. So one was they did was to transfer all the money into another account leaving $1 left...
    No true,
    I just cancel my monthy donations to NKF deduction from my account, thru internet banking and it clearly stated that it was a giro order.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampthing
    I believe that a charity in Singapore must use 70% of funds raised for the needy. Not sure if it's a guideline.
    What the rules state is that 70% of the expenses must be for the usage of the purpose (ie for NKF is the kidney patients, for NAC etc will be for the artist etc). This criteria is more for tax purposes and it's difficult to prove otherwise. For example, staff costs (which is the biggest expense item) will be allocated almost 100% to these Kidney patients eventhough it is not direct costs...

  18. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.
    hello??? Jackson Tai and Wee Cho Yow do not send you exploitative colour brochures with pictures of children with disabilities begging you to part with your money!

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    Well... IIRC Lee Hsien Loong (Singtel) and Jackson Tai (DBS) earned much more than their basic salary as their bonuses are tied to the share performance and other KPIs. Wee Cho Yow earns much more as well.... esp since you ahve not taken into account his profit sharing/dividends etc.
    Yes but all of them are from companies that provide a service to a paying customer. For NKF their monies come from people who donate for the sole purpose of helping the sick.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  20. #260

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    i think i might start my GIRO donation to NKF end of this week..i am going to get King's treatment despite my $1 goodwill..becos then i be the last few remaining 'loyalists'

    who knows maybe i get VIP seats to the next [emtpy] NKF show!

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