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Thread: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

  1. #141
    vince123123
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    In addition, I would think that Mr Steven Yee should in the light of these posts, get the HPB to come in and respond rather than just come in and say that we should ask HPB privately. The people here asked a question, it is only reasonable that you (since you can't speak for the rules), get the right person in HPB to respond, as those who have asked the question will not have the ability to contact the person at HPB which I'm sure you can.

  2. #142
    vince123123
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    No legal team will advise the other side on how strong its rights are. They will simply tell you to find your own legal advisers. Someone can try to ask HPB and see what happens, but I think HPB, if it is really interested to clarify, should come in and clarify. I don't see why this has to be a private official letter to HPB when this is a topic of public interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Very interesting question. Very simple, write an official letter to HPB, then their legal team will clarify and you post their reply. PSS has to obligation to answer this question onbehalfof HPB, as this is drafted bytheir legal team. This will answer your question.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    My latest info from a source is some of the comments here are made by professional photographers who fear for their ricebowls. Don't worry. If you fear, i also fear. At the end of the day, these competitions will not affect the ricebowls. When an advertising campaign starts, professional photography is needed. There is always a constraint when it comes to using pictures from competitions.
    sigh i didn't want to talk about this thing anymore already but since vince123123 pointed out the potential problem in this statement, i can tell you that the 3 members who raised the most important issues here, yqt, smurfman and catchlights, are all professional photographers. there is no secret in this and they do not need to hide this fact from anyone, neither do you need to get information from whatever source. i know them personally, but no, they did not instigate me to come in here to make queries. the 3 professional photographers whom i respect alot are busy enough trying to make ends meet, they don't need to come in here to argue with anyone (they didn't want to argue, they just want to clarify things) they are speaking as professional photographers who are deeply concerned with the development of local photography scene. these competitions don't affect their ricebowl, but unfair competition rules do affect the way photographs are regarded as intellectual property and as work of art by the public. and as catchlights pointed out, who is to safeguard the participant's rights when problem arises?

  4. #144

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    Lets make friends, eat together and let the thread dies........................

    When the problems snowballs to another bigger problem, let the PSS and others sovle it, lets shoot now.

    Why i say so, cos as far as i see and read using my best english, Neither PSS nor HPB will want to held responsible for problems arises.

    Its true, like wat Mr. Steven Yee says, alot starts to gear up and enter the competition, which there is alot of competitions, so let them enjoy shooting.

    To PSS: Please stand on more grounds to protect photographers rights.

    To Mr. Steven Yee: Thks for USING your PRECIOUS time to post here, you don't need to come in anymore, cos i see from your previous post, you think we are wasting time.

    To All: join the contest as you wish, i am not joining, not interested at all.

    My Stands: I will never ever support such ridiculous T&Cs, not that i don't understand this market, just that this sort of things will be harmful in our small phoyography society. If PSS really understand exactly what we are talking abt here.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  5. #145
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    Wish I could have come on line ealier but I have to attend to some matter since Friday.
    Well, I'm back online and will reply now. Here goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Hmmm, I just touched down in Singapore. Do you have anything prejudiced against PSS? I am sure there is based on your posts, not just in this thread. Likewise for YQT.
    Do I sound like I have something prejudiced against PSS? Base on my post you conclude that I have. Well what I'm saying here is that PSS, being the biggest photography club in SG which, just it's name alone will automatically command respect, should have fought for the T&Cs to be fair to photographers. By saying that PSS is not involve in setting the T&Cs so will not comment on it is taking the easy way out. I would have expect, and it would not be unfair for any photographer to expect, PSS to advance the cause of photographer here, after all PSS does stand for Photography Society Of Singapore. The expectation comes from the name PSS.
    If by doing so make me someone with prejudice against PSS, than so be it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I may have met you,I do not know. But at the TSWL launch at Singapore Arts Museum, one of the clubsnapper came up to me and proudly told me that he feel "shiok" writing against PSS. He said he felt thrilled. What a bore and waste of time.I think we have better things to do. Confucius said," one rice breeds a hundred types of men".
    I'm not the CSer you have mention as I'm not at the TSWL launch and have not met you before. And mind you, it don't make me feel "shiok" to write against PSS. Just that, as a photographer who spotted something which I feel is very much against photographers here I feel that I have to speak up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Let us not make clubsnap ugly place. Feedback from many of our associates is they are less prone to post competition details in clubsnap.
    Is CS an ugly place just because of this? If a competation is fair and just what have any org got to fear? Have what we've bought up so far been fair? An org that belives in what they're doing will stand up and be counted. It will stand up for what it belive in and defand itself reguardless of where it is. So far HPB have not stand up and said that their T&Cs are fair to the public and have not answer any of the quires. But someone from HPB ( we assume he's/she's from HPB ) have taken the trouble to register and post a long post but have since gone away. Interesting thing here is that PSS have also so far NOT state that the T&Cs are fair. But it have said that they have spoken to HPB about the T&Cs in your post #134 which is below:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS has highlighted to HPB about the rules and regulation. They shall consider our recommendations for next year's competition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS is not reimbursed and do not receive donation for its role in this competition.
    Now this is interesting, supporting a competation in which PSS will not be reimbursed for, and at the same time which have T&Cs which PSS have recommanded change but HPB will not change them. Did I read it correctly? Interesting.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  6. #146
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    I have resisted posting for the past 2 days to see whether things improved. Here's my take on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Do I sound like I have something prejudiced against PSS? Base on my post you conclude that I have. Well what I'm saying here is that PSS, being the biggest photography club in SG which, just it's name alone will automatically command respect, should have fought for the T&Cs to be fair to photographers. By saying that PSS is not involve in setting the T&Cs so will not comment on it is taking the easy way out. I would have expect, and it would not be unfair for any photographer to expect, PSS to advance the cause of photographer here, after all PSS does stand for Photography Society Of Singapore. The expectation comes from the name PSS.
    If by doing so make me someone with prejudice against PSS, than so be it.
    I do not think that by saying that PSS saying that it's HPB that sets the T&C is taking the easy way out. Being a photographer, i do realise what you guys are fighting about. However, it is clear in almost all competition, the Organisor, in this case, HPB, sets the T&Cs, gives out the prizes. So what's wrong with Steven's statement? As for the fact that you mentioned that PSS do not stand up for the photographers here. Let me correct you on this.

    PSS is a members' club. It's responsibility is to the members, not non-paying public. We have to get this point clear. Why is it so? Well, as a non-profit arts organisation, it is IRAS's requirement that PSS have to devote most of our expenses to our members. PSS do not receive annual funding from the government to promote photography. As PSS objective is to bring photography to the masses, PSS collaborate with many third party organisations such as Nikon (the Big Walk Shoot), Great Eastern (Life is Great) as well as this HPB competition.

    How it usually works is the 3rd party, such as HPB, GE or Nikon will decide to have a competition, PSS will usually be part of the comittee to discuss what competition etc. Sometimes, if the competition is repetitive such as Life is Great, maybe only the theme need to be finetuned. Most of the time, the 3rd party organisation is the one responsible for the event/competition. Hence, they have the right to set any rules. It is up to individuals to enter the competition to adhere to the rules.

    Are all the rules same? Usually similar but never identical. Are the rules fair? Usually fair but some are not to some people. So what did PSS do? [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-left.gif[/IMG] Quote: [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-right.gif[/IMG] [IMG]images/quotes/quot-by-left.gif[/IMG] Originally Posted by: Steven Yee [IMG]images/quotes/quot-by-right.gif[/IMG]
    [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gif[/IMG]



    PSS has highlighted to HPB about the rules and regulation. They shall consider our recommendations for next year's competition.
    [IMG]images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gif[/IMG]
    As mentioned by Steven, PSS will suggest to the organiser on whether to modify the rules etc but ultimately, it's their decision. How in this case can you claimed that PSS did not do anything to advance the cause of photographer here. What PSS have done all these years can be viewed as public service and advancing the cause of Singapore Photographers. Did you see other photographic societys, schools etc do these?


    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    I'm not the CSer you have mention as I'm not at the TSWL launch and have not met you before. And mind you, it don't make me feel "shiok" to write against PSS. Just that, as a photographer who spotted something which I feel is very much against photographers here I feel that I have to speak up.
    Yes, for this i appauld you. I do believe everyone is entitle to ask for a reasonable answer. In fact, i have questioned Steven on other occasions on certain matters. For this matter, i feel that Steven has already answered reasonably. If you want to know exactly why they set such rules. Call HPB.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Is CS an ugly place just because of this? If a competation is fair and just what have any org got to fear? Have what we've bought up so far been fair? An org that belives in what they're doing will stand up and be counted. It will stand up for what it belive in and defand itself reguardless of where it is. So far HPB have not stand up and said that their T&Cs are fair to the public and have not answer any of the quires. But someone from HPB ( we assume he's/she's from HPB ) have taken the trouble to register and post a long post but have since gone away. Interesting thing here is that PSS have also so far NOT state that the T&Cs are fair.
    Well said but what you guys neglected to see is the view from the other side. To HPB, they have reasons to protect their interest, hence they may have set certain rules that is not acceptable to some photographers. Is it fair? Depends. It may be unfair to some photographers but i should think HPB think is fair. When it comes to fairness, whois to judge? Of course, we will all fight for the photographer but it would be irresponsible for HPB to not protect their interest, their stakeholders, reputation. Hence, my call is simple, dun like the rules, dun join the competition. This is not mandatory, it's not an election. This is a voluntary competition where HPB entice you with prizes for your photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Now this is interesting, supporting a competation in which PSS will not be reimbursed for, and at the same time which have T&Cs which PSS have recommanded change but HPB will not change them. Did I read it correctly? Interesting.
    As i have mentioned earlier, PSS are not remunerated for some competitions. For others, sometimes, the organiser will gives PSS a small donation as token of appreciation. As for why the T&Cs was not change, it's simple. It's their competition, they can don't change. If they want to set further restrictions such as only digital pics (those shooting slides and films will be unhappy), only film (digital will be unhappy), only large format (amaetuer and those w/o large format will be happy), only camera less than 6mega pixels (those with DSLR) will be unhappy. So what? Ultimately, they have to take a stand, those that are happy, join, those that are not, don't. I really dun see what's the fuss.

  7. #147
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    Default Since you've quoted me, I'll reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    as mentioned, every organisation have their rules and regulation. These type of rules are not found just in this competition, but also in others. It is for one to judge whether they can accept the rules. If one accept the rules, especially photographers who shoot to join competition and they know of such hoo haa, they will surely send in many entries. If one is skeptical, one can choose either not to take part or probably just submit one pix.
    So if one is skeptical, one should stay away or just submit one just for the fun of it? Right? I read "skeptical" to mean to disagreed totally or in part, or to be unsure about things. So by supporting this competation, PSS is not "skeptical" about anything about this competation? If so, why do PSS see the need to recommand anything to HPB about the T&Cs for them to consider?



    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS is supporting the competition in logistics only. We have talked to HPB about this copyright issue. They have consulted their legal team. They would like to stand by the current rules. We have to accept their decision. Now the ball is in the court of the photographers. Either take it or leave it.
    I wander why PSS "HAVE to accept their decision"? is PSS beholden to HPB? Since PSS have "talk to HPB about this copyrights issue" I assume PSS do see an issue here. So does it mean that PSS sees supporting this competation as more important than the copyrights issue? So now HPB ( with the knowledge of PSS ) have pass the ball to the photographer's court and in your own words, Take it or leave it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    While PSS tries to promote photography to the general mess, PSS cannot be nanny to too many people, telling everyone which competition to take part or not. Everyone is mature enough to read the rules and see if the terms are OK to them before taking part in the competition.
    Yes, I agreed with you. I would not go around telling others which competation to enter and which not to enter. That is the job of a nanny. But to promote photography in this modern context also includes the copyrights of the photographer. Have PSS tried to create awareness about the photographer's rights and copyrights? This is not being a nanny, it is to promote photography in this morden context. To improve the photographer's standing in SG. And yes, again it is up to every ind. to read the T&Cs. But don't forget, PSS is not any photography club, it is the PHOTOGRAPHY SOCIETY OF SINGAPORE. Your logo alone suggested that this competation is supported by PSS, which in this case, do have some concern about the T&Cs. Anyone who is not aware about this thread will not have known about it. And even than, it took 97 post before we know that PSS have " talk to HPB about this copyrights issue". But to alot of people it is just the imperssion that PSS support this competation, full stop.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS has told HPB that the rules are open to public critique. Photography is a friendly art.No need to challenge or protest. As mentioned, no one can say whether the rules are right or wrong. It is up to photographers to see if they want to accept them.
    As I've posted before, the T&Cs are in black and white. If PSS could not make up it's mind if it is right of wrong, how can PSS be judging the competation when photography is an art form? If there is no right or wrong to the T&Cs than why is the T&Cs there in the first place? If there is nothing wrong why do PSS see the need to inform HPB that " the rules are open to public critique "?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Just like a chicken rice stall. If the food is nice,people go eat the food.If it is not,less people eat. THere will always be some people who like and some who do not like.

    Likewise for this competition, if one is not agreeable to the rules,then don't submit. Pretty simple. If one is still not happy, they can write in to HPB and voice out their opinion.
    Yes, true. What is also true is that if an org with public standing, gives the stall it's endorsement, more people will flock to it. In the same coin, if this org, knowing full well that the food is not healthy, inform the stall owner and the stall owner does nothing to change, and the org still endorse the stall than it is a diff ball game.
    Write in to HPB? Yes, that's what I have intended to do, until you mention that PSS have raised this issue to them. If PSS have raise the issue with them and still endorse them, what do you think will be the respond from them? After all PSS is still supporting them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS is not involved in the drafting of the rules. When we saw the rules, we did advise HPB on the potential issues. They stand by their decision and we have to respect it. It is not wrong, as such terms and conditions are endorsed in some local and international competitions.
    Again, why do you "Have to respect it"? just because it is a stat board? PSS could very well withdraw their support if they think the issue is important enough. Is the issue with copyrights important enough? Oh yes, you did mention that " It is not wrong, as such terms and conditions are endorsed in some local and international competitions " so you're saying SOME others are doing it so it is not wrong, is it? Funny, till now, No one have come out to say it outright that " IT IS RIGHT " , so is this right or wrong? Or is PSS's/HPB's stand that there is no right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    PSS is involved and consulted for the rules in Life is Great competition. The prize is good, rules are acceptable, hence the mountain of entries. Photographers know best what is good for them. Chance given up is automatically given up to others.

    As mentioned, the rules and regulation are there for the photographer to see whether they accept or not. There is no right and wrong with regards to the one organised by HPB.

    The competition game is simple. Either to accept the rules and take part, or else, look out for other competition. PSS is involved in so many competitions. The recent Total Defence competition got so many prizes. The rules are fair, and we received quite a lot of images across the 10 sections. Even though it is fair,some chose not to take part. I do not know how many have missed their chances.
    So for this 2 competation, the prize is good and the rules/T&Cs are fair so they got mountains of entries. Good for them and job well done to PSS. So how well a competation does depands on how fair it is and not how well "some photographer who shoot to win competation try to soil discord amount photographer here and see how many images to submit in order to whack and win all the prize". Correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I also think that photographers who shoot to join competition is monitoring this thread carefully to see howmany works to "whack" and win all. Hope these comments about fairness are not decoys by these photographers.
    From your quote, if the competation is fair and the prize is good what is there for these photographers to sent out as decoys? If these photographers are able to do it, than blame it on the org who took the bait themself in the first place with the T&Cs. And I say again, I DO NOT JOIN PHOTOGRAPHY COMPETATION, AT LEAST NOT IN THE LAST 5 TO 8 YEARS.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    IT IS HARD TO PLEASE EVERYONE. PSS has no obligation to please any individual. Photography is a people's art,and people have a choice whether to take part or not in these competitions. If one really treasure his works in a non monetory sense, one will not even take part in competitions. He will probably just put his works at home for personal pleasure viewing.

    Photography is not just about competitions.

    Hope this clarifies and put a stop to these hoo haa. If one is not happy, feel free to send feedback to HPB.
    No one is asking PSS to please anyone. What we're saying is that, PSS as a premier photography club in Singapore, with it's high standing amount photographers here and aboard, whose name itself will carry weight and respect, please, step up to the plate, make your stand, if PSS do not help the very people it hope to promote photography to, than what is PSS in the modern context of photography? Just a club that promotes the process of photo taking and nothing else?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis32
    I have resisted posting for the past 2 days to see whether things improved. Here's my take on the matter.



    I do not think that by saying that PSS saying that it's HPB that sets the T&C is taking the easy way out. Being a photographer, i do realise what you guys are fighting about. However, it is clear in almost all competition, the Organisor, in this case, HPB, sets the T&Cs, gives out the prizes. So what's wrong with Steven's statement? As for the fact that you mentioned that PSS do not stand up for the photographers here. Let me correct you on this.

    PSS is a members' club. It's responsibility is to the members, not non-paying public. We have to get this point clear. Why is it so? Well, as a non-profit arts organisation, it is IRAS's requirement that PSS have to devote most of our expenses to our members. PSS do not receive annual funding from the government to promote photography. As PSS objective is to bring photography to the masses, PSS collaborate with many third party organisations such as Nikon (the Big Walk Shoot), Great Eastern (Life is Great) as well as this HPB competition.

    How it usually works is the 3rd party, such as HPB, GE or Nikon will decide to have a competition, PSS will usually be part of the comittee to discuss what competition etc. Sometimes, if the competition is repetitive such as Life is Great, maybe only the theme need to be finetuned. Most of the time, the 3rd party organisation is the one responsible for the event/competition. Hence, they have the right to set any rules. It is up to individuals to enter the competition to adhere to the rules.

    Are all the rules same? Usually similar but never identical. Are the rules fair? Usually fair but some are not to some people. So what did PSS do? [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-left.gif[/IMG] Quote: [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-right.gif[/IMG] [IMG]images/quotes/quot-by-left.gif[/IMG] Originally Posted by: Steven Yee [IMG]images/quotes/quot-by-right.gif[/IMG]
    [IMG]images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gif[/IMG]



    PSS has highlighted to HPB about the rules and regulation. They shall consider our recommendations for next year's competition.
    [IMG]images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gif[/IMG]
    As mentioned by Steven, PSS will suggest to the organiser on whether to modify the rules etc but ultimately, it's their decision. How in this case can you claimed that PSS did not do anything to advance the cause of photographer here. What PSS have done all these years can be viewed as public service and advancing the cause of Singapore Photographers. Did you see other photographic societys, schools etc do these?




    Yes, for this i appauld you. I do believe everyone is entitle to ask for a reasonable answer. In fact, i have questioned Steven on other occasions on certain matters. For this matter, i feel that Steven has already answered reasonably. If you want to know exactly why they set such rules. Call HPB.



    Well said but what you guys neglected to see is the view from the other side. To HPB, they have reasons to protect their interest, hence they may have set certain rules that is not acceptable to some photographers. Is it fair? Depends. It may be unfair to some photographers but i should think HPB think is fair. When it comes to fairness, whois to judge? Of course, we will all fight for the photographer but it would be irresponsible for HPB to not protect their interest, their stakeholders, reputation. Hence, my call is simple, dun like the rules, dun join the competition. This is not mandatory, it's not an election. This is a voluntary competition where HPB entice you with prizes for your photos.


    As i have mentioned earlier, PSS are not remunerated for some competitions. For others, sometimes, the organiser will gives PSS a small donation as token of appreciation. As for why the T&Cs was not change, it's simple. It's their competition, they can don't change. If they want to set further restrictions such as only digital pics (those shooting slides and films will be unhappy), only film (digital will be unhappy), only large format (amaetuer and those w/o large format will be happy), only camera less than 6mega pixels (those with DSLR) will be unhappy. So what? Ultimately, they have to take a stand, those that are happy, join, those that are not, don't. I really dun see what's the fuss.
    Yes, org is taking a stand " These are my T&Cs, you have to abide by it if you want to join"
    Photographers are ask to take a stand " if you're not happy, don't join. If you're happy, join"
    What is PSS's stand? Is it,
    1)" We help promote photography by being the judge only."
    2)"Though we do not agreed with the T&Cs about copyrights, we will still support and endorse this competation."?

    The part about PSS as a member's club. Yes I'm aware about it. As a member's club it's main concren should be it's members. It should strive to promote and serve it's members first and foremost. By endorseing this competation with the present T&Cs in them, is PSS serveing it's members. Is PSS helping to protect it's members? The T&Cs are for everyone reguardless of PSS's members or not. How is PSS serveing it's members? Bear in mind that PSS is not just any club, when PSS lend it's logo to the competation it is putting itself up for all to see, as such it have a social responsibility to the public.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I have asked around several people what they think about the thread. Their general sentiment is if you are not OK with the rules and regulation, feel free not to sumit and let others who are OK with the rules have the chance.
    If that is how people think than we're really in a sorry state. If you belive in something, Stand up and be counted. Stand up for what you belive in. If all of us chose to just go away how are we going to improve ourself? Yes we can spend more time taking better pictures and be a better photographer but is is that all we should be concren about? Just how much we are better than the other guy in turns of our skills? How about photography as a whole? Where do we stand as a photographer in thems of the photographer's rights and standing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I have received emails from a few people and they tell me to ignore this thread, as it seem quite clear that there are some who just like to pick bones from the egg and get personal with PSS.
    I'm not trying to pick a bone with PSS. Just an ind challanging the present mentality of PSS hoping that the premier photography club in Singapore will step up their game.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I am curious who is the one who came up to me at Singapore Art Museum and said he felt shiok "flaming" PSS just for the kick of it?
    Well, it is not me. Before all this my impression of PSS is still one that is very positive. I fact I've recommand some friends to PSS to take up course there. Those who know me will know that if I were to meet you now I'll either just keep quite as it might not be the time and place to engage you on this topic or I would just go up to you, intro myself to let you know who I am and engage you on this topic. I don't derive joy from senceless flaming.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I am sure not if anyone goes around shooting and making others sign model release form. This is also the reason why some regular award winning photographers prefer to submit pix of their family members in action. This is also the reason why organisations, when they have their advertising campaign, insist of using commercial models with model release for their ads and not images from the competition. How often do you see orgainsations made use of winning images from competition for their ad campaigns? Probably one in ten chance, as it is hard for the designer to specially skew the design concept to cater for the picture. You spend some time in this field and you will know what I mean.
    If that is the case, why do the org need T&C #5 & 7 if there is no intention to use it? By having T&C #5 & 7 it gives the org every right to use it and all responsiblity is push to the photographer. I have spend some time in this field and there were times my clients( direct clients ) will give the designers the images and they do the ad according to how the pix was shot. Of course the basic concept have to be there in the first place. From so many images ( from the competation ), it will not be hard to find images to suit the concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Even if such a case happens, there is room for settlements. The organiser will step in and negotiate if they really need the picture badly. By the way, do you know that it is a common case where a good pix is dropped from a campaign ad just because it might have potential legal issues?
    Is there any legal issue for HPB to drop the pix? The T&Cs #5&7 have already cover their behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    The common trend in today's competition in settling this issue is organiser will have a 'search the model' campaign, identify the model in the photographer's winning pix (only if it is a head shot of the model and no one else), and reward him or her in some way. I am not sure if HPB has plans for this or not in their campaign.
    This is the best part so far. After all you've posted above, you're " not sure if HPB has plans for this or not in their campaign "

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    We cannot speak on behalf of the Press photographers, who are facing this problem everyday. But I am sure many people do not mind being featured in the papers. I will probably buy a stack of newspapers if I am featured in it.
    Press photographers are covered by "Freedom Of The Press" so they do not need to worry about model release. As for being featured in the papers, there are also some who will threaten to sue to make a fast back. All it takes is one and the photographer is dead.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  12. #152
    Senior Member poohbear's Avatar
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    Default

    Not going to comment anything ... but maybe all should step back and drink some 'liang teh' . Both side has it's valid points and it's just how strong your belief of the side is. Time to move on liao . Make peace , not war

  13. #153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poohbear
    Not going to comment anything ... but maybe all should step back and drink some 'liang teh' . Both side has it's valid points and it's just how strong your belief of the side is. Time to move on liao . Make peace , not war
    me selling liang teh, $2 per bottle, sure can cool alot of you down, including myself.

    No stepback, step front, and shake hands.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    [QUOTE=LiewTL]If I don't win, its OK because photography is very subjective. It depends a lot on the judges. From photo competitions, I learned a lot by studying other people's winning shot.[QUOTE]

    Just off the topic. Is it by knowing who the judges will be on the judging day helps in one way or the other before even making a picture(s)? Just curious to know? And no offence. Thanks in advance.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    No! Most of the photo competitions organised in Singapore have been using the same few judges. If you study the trend of those winning pictures, you will be able to tell the direction in which how they judge. But of course, it still depends on which picture they choose. It does not mean that the photo did not win is not a good photo!

  16. #156

    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    To those who feel injustice, time to move on to regional or international photography competition. As for me personally, I don't see a point in entering local competition anymore.

    Jon
    Last edited by arttl; 24th September 2005 at 10:53 AM.

  17. #157

    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    Thanks yqt for the effort in raising this issue... Utimately, a person interested in joining the competition needs to understand the implication. I really wonder how many of those who join a competition really read through and understand the T&C. Maybe somone can start a poll ?!

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt

    But to promote photography in this modern context also includes the copyrights of the photographer. Have PSS tried to create awareness about the photographer's rights and copyrights? This is not being a nanny, it is to promote photography in this morden context. To improve the photographer's standing in SG. And yes, again it is up to every ind. to read the T&Cs. But don't forget, PSS is not any photography club, it is the PHOTOGRAPHY SOCIETY OF SINGAPORE. Your logo alone suggested that this competation is supported by PSS, which in this case, do have some concern about the T&Cs. Anyone who is not aware about this thread will not have known about it. And even than, it took 97 post before we know that PSS have " talk to HPB about this copyrights issue".

    Jon

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by evershine
    Thanks yqt for the effort in raising this issue... Utimately, a person interested in joining the competition needs to understand the implication. I really wonder how many of those who join a competition really read through and understand the T&C. Maybe somone can start a poll ?!
    Don't need to thank me evershine but appericate it all the same. As an ind. there is only so much that we can do. Hope this will help create some awareness and perhaps next time people in a position to make changes or even advise will stand firm on their grounds for the good of photographers in Singapore till than, we'll just have to point things out when it happen so that all who join go in with their eyes open.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    Things like that happens again & again....How to promote Art's & Culture here! Sad indeed.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    Things like that happens again & again....How to promote Art's & Culture here! Sad indeed.
    The Health Promotion Board's mission is to promote health awareness, not arts and culture. A photo competition is merely a vehicle to attract attention to health issues. Thinking of it in terms of "arts and culture" may be unreasonable expectations.

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