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Thread: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

  1. #121

    Lightbulb

    considering the pathetic state of treatment of photographers in singapore, may not be a bad idea to sell char kway teow! may be more lucrative.


    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    you're lucky that there's no 'Board of Photographers' or any organisation capable enough to regulate the photography community in Singapore, if not you'll be deregistered as a photographer, then you really have to go and sell char kway teow already btw i miss your postings in kopitiam, damn boh liao but entertaining, come back leh

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    there's one thing i have to agree with yqt, PSS logo is on the publicity poster, this is a direct show of support for the competition. no one is going to ask 'how is PSS supporting this event?' when they see the poster, but almost everyone will see it as 'PSS has endorsed this event!'

    i see PSS as representing the interest of photogs in Singapore, but it seems that i am wrong. i suggest PSS change the name. right now we know the organisation as The Photograhic Society of Singapore, as far as i am concern this name carries alot of responsibility.
    Last time I am going to repeat this statement,though. Organisers have the rights to state their terms and conditions as they are the ones who provide the prizes and money. we as logistic support, shall assist them.

    I have asked around several people what they think about the thread. Their general sentiment is if you are not OK with the rules and regulation, feel free not to sumit and let others who are OK with the rules have the chance.

    This is a pretty simple issue which has been blown out of proportion by a candid few. We had our laughs, and we have better things to do and more projects coming up to promote photography. HPB PROJECT IS NOT THE ONE AND ONLY ONE WE ARE ORGANISING OR SUPORTING.

    I have received emails from a few people and they tell me to ignore this thread, as it seem quite clear that there are some who just like to pick bones from the egg and get personal with PSS.

    yeah, we have better things to do. Rather spend more effort in seeing how to promote photography, especially to the youth, than to waste precious time here ding dong here and there.

    PSS HAS NO OBLIGATION TO ANSWER ON BEHALF OF HPB.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman
    I am not boiling hot, the egg cannot eat yet. I just being more firm, cannot like my posting in kopitiam, i can be bo liao, fun, but this issue gotta be serious.

    You have done a great part here, but the someone responsible enough haven come in.

    I am not looking for rolling heads here, just want someone responsible to speak for both, PSS and HPB, to clarify matters here, not throwing balls ard.
    Sometimes, I really do not know what is there to boil about. You have your time with family on weekends, have time to rest etc. The last time I had family dinner was one month ago.

    Whoever thinks he has better initiatives and willing to spend his time 7 days a week doing his best for the photography community is strongly encouraged to step out and serve the Society. Use action to justify the cause and sincerity. Only then, one will realise that it is not easy. The family time sacrificed, the rest time foregone etc. It is a choice and path which I decided to take, though I really hope to be in your shoes, when free,log on and express your opinions without obligation just because many think others do not know who they are. Singapore photography community is compact enough to know who are who.

    Making noise in the forum is not constructive. JUST DO IT. Time to clear my emails now.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Last time I am going to repeat this statement,though. Organisers have the rights to state their terms and conditions as they are the ones who provide the prizes and money. we as logistic support, shall assist them.

    I have asked around several people what they think about the thread. Their general sentiment is if you are not OK with the rules and regulation, feel free not to sumit and let others who are OK with the rules have the chance.

    This is a pretty simple issue which has been blown out of proportion by a candid few. We had our laughs, and we have better things to do and more projects coming up to promote photography. HPB PROJECT IS NOT THE ONE AND ONLY ONE WE ARE ORGANISING OR SUPORTING.

    I have received emails from a few people and they tell me to ignore this thread, as it seem quite clear that there are some who just like to pick bones from the egg and get personal with PSS.

    yeah, we have better things to do. Rather spend more effort in seeing how to promote photography, especially to the youth, than to waste precious time here ding dong here and there.

    PSS HAS NO OBLIGATION TO ANSWER ON BEHALF OF HPB.
    Organisers have the rights to write their own rules, PSS has the rights not to support unfair competition rules. till now you still don't understand this.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman
    My question to PSS Mr. Steven Yee:

    If some one took a very good pic, the image got big impact on our society, everyones loves it, the photographer got famous, HPB very please, then suddenly, the third party which appear in the photo sue HPB, can you let me know what will the photographer bear?

    Very simple question, PSS members or Mr. Steven Yee, just answer directly. Thk you.

    I think steven better go sleep first, just touch down only.
    Just to satisfy the curiosity of smurfman, in my opinion, when the judges select the winning entries, there are many factors that came into their mind. Technicality is one, relevance to theme is next, creativity and the X factor follows.

    It is hard to say how ONE IMAGE can have how much impact on the Society. So far, I have yet to really see one such pix. It is impossible as everyone has different taste and preference.

    I am sure not if anyone goes around shooting and making others sign model release form. This is also the reason why some regular award winning photographers prefer to submit pix of their family members in action. This is also the reason why organisations, when they have their advertising campaign, insist of using commercial models with model release for their ads and not images from the competition. How often do you see orgainsations made use of winning images from competition for their ad campaigns? Probably one in ten chance, as it is hard for the designer to specially skew the design concept to cater for the picture. You spend some time in this field and you will know what I mean.

    Even if such a case happens, there is room for settlements. The organiser will step in and negotiate if they really need the picture badly. By the way, do you know that it is a common case where a good pix is dropped from a campaign ad just because it might have potential legal issues?

    The common trend in today's competition in settling this issue is organiser will have a 'search the model' campaign, identify the model in the photographer's winning pix (only if it is a head shot of the model and no one else), and reward him or her in some way. I am not sure if HPB has plans for this or not in their campaign.

    We cannot speak on behalf of the Press photographers, who are facing this problem everyday. But I am sure many people do not mind being featured in the papers. I will probably buy a stack of newspapers if I am featured in it.

    This is one very simple candid answer, an attempt to satisfy smurfman and others.

    I have answered you directly as required, at the expense of my time, to educate, and I hope you have shed some light out of it. Using an image for commercial use is not as simple as one think it to be.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    Organisers have the rights to write their own rules, PSS has the rights not to support unfair competition rules. till now you still don't understand this.
    I really have to stress that different people view the rules differently. Such a format of rules and regulation is seen in several global photo competitions as well as a few of the local ones that are currently going on. By the way, this is not the only competition. One has the freedom of choice to choose to enter other competitions where they are agreeable with the rules and regulation. The so called "regular competition photographers" are now gearing up for this competition. Feel free not to submit if you are not comfortable with the rules and regulation.

    I think it is very very important that one knows what is the purpose of one if he or she submit for the competition.Is it for the prizes or for other reason? If you treasure your works and still want to have your copyright over them, then don't ever submit for any competitions. When you submit for the competition, you are deemed to have agree to abide by the rules, which you have a choice not to accept by not submitting, since there are so many other competitions.

    PSS has been a staunch supporting partner with HPB as we have worked on several projects before. One has the right not to submt for this competition if one thinks it is "unfair". By the way, did you submit for the Total Defence Competition a few months back that has more than S$70,000 worth of prizes?

    This thread has been made into a small hoohaa which I am pleased to squash it.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I really have to stress that different people view the rules differently. Such a format of rules and regulation is seen in several global photo competitions as well as a few of the local ones that are currently going on. By the way, this is not the only competition. One has the freedom of choice to choose to enter other competitions where they are agreeable with the rules and regulation. The so called "regular competition photographers" are now gearing up for this competition. Feel free not to submit if you are not comfortable with the rules and regulation.

    I think it is very very important that one knows what is the purpose of one if he or she submit for the competition.Is it for the prizes or for other reason? If you treasure your works and still want to have your copyright over them, then don't ever submit for any competitions. When you submit for the competition, you are deemed to have agree to abide by the rules, which you have a choice not to accept by not submitting, since there are so many other competitions.

    PSS has been a staunch supporting partner with HPB as we have worked on several projects before. One has the right not to submt for this competition if one thinks it is "unfair". By the way, did you submit for the Total Defence Competition a few months back that has more than S$70,000 worth of prizes?

    This thread has been made into a small hoohaa which I am pleased to squash it.
    why do you keep evading the point? i have no issue with any organiser. i just don't understand why PSS wants to support bad rules. that's all ... ok, i've thought over it, PSS thinks those rules are alright. so it's just me who is unhappy with the way PSS handle this issue lah? correct? fine, but there are so many more people out there thinking that the rules are not alright, and it seems that PSS is not going to address this sort of issue at all.

  8. #128

    Lightbulb

    looking forward, i like to know if PSS will continue to be a staunch supporting partner of hpb?


    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I really have to stress that different people view the rules differently. Such a format of rules and regulation is seen in several global photo competitions as well as a few of the local ones that are currently going on. By the way, this is not the only competition. One has the freedom of choice to choose to enter other competitions where they are agreeable with the rules and regulation. The so called "regular competition photographers" are now gearing up for this competition. Feel free not to submit if you are not comfortable with the rules and regulation.

    I think it is very very important that one knows what is the purpose of one if he or she submit for the competition.Is it for the prizes or for other reason? If you treasure your works and still want to have your copyright over them, then don't ever submit for any competitions. When you submit for the competition, you are deemed to have agree to abide by the rules, which you have a choice not to accept by not submitting, since there are so many other competitions.

    PSS has been a staunch supporting partner with HPB as we have worked on several projects before. One has the right not to submt for this competition if one thinks it is "unfair". By the way, did you submit for the Total Defence Competition a few months back that has more than S$70,000 worth of prizes?

    This thread has been made into a small hoohaa which I am pleased to squash it.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    looking forward, i like to know if PSS will continue to be a staunch supporting partner of hpb?
    forget it ... i had been so naive to believe that PSS represents the photography community in Singapore. i was wrong. so it really doesn't matter whether their logo appears anywhere, they have the rights to do whatever they want, because they don't have to answer to the local photography community at all. yes, i was so very wrong.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    forget it ... i had been so naive to believe that PSS represents the photography community in Singapore. i was wrong. so it really doesn't matter whether their logo appears anywhere, they have the rights to do whatever they want, because they don't have to answer to the local photography community at all. yes, i was so very wrong.
    This is probably your personal opinion. We have our other projects to continue. Our track record and other testimonies are our best evidence.

    In my opinion, we are not oblige to answer to any individual as we have to cater for the masses. Everyone has his own priorities. When you enter a volunteer organisation, you will know what I mean it is hard to please everyone, including you!

    And we would appreciate if you could be gracious enough to stop making such sweeping defamatory statements. The ball is in your court whether to take part or not.

    My latest info from a source is some of the comments here are made by professional photographers who fear for their ricebowls. Don't worry. If you fear, i also fear. At the end of the day, these competitions will not affect the ricebowls. When an advertising campaign starts, professional photography is needed. There is always a constraint when it comes to using pictures from competitions.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    This is probably your personal opinion. We have our other projects to continue. Our track record and other testimonies are our best evidence.

    In my opinion, we are not oblige to answer to any individual as we have to cater for the masses. Everyone has his own priorities. When you enter a volunteer organisation, you will know what I mean it is hard to please everyone, including you!

    And we would appreciate if you could be gracious enough to stop making such sweeping defamatory statements. The ball is in your court whether to take part or not.

    My latest info from a source is some of the comments here are made by professional photographers who fear for their ricebowls. Don't worry. If you fear, i also fear. At the end of the day, these competitions will not affect the ricebowls. When an advertising campaign starts, professional photography is needed. There is always a constraint when it comes to using pictures from competitions.

    right, now i'm defaming PSS

  12. #132

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    The two organisations are not just involved in organising the competitions. We also have joint commissioned photo exhibitions.

    PSS has highlighted to HPB about the rules and regulation. They shall consider our recommendations for next year's competition.

    For info, those regular competition photographers are now gearing up for the competition. Either get distracted by the comments here and give away your chance, or one can choose to stick by his or her decision.

    Rules are set by HPB's legal team. Accept it and submit or reject it by keeping your photographs for other competition. there are so many around. This is called Image management.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    considering the pathetic state of treatment of photographers in singapore, may not be a bad idea to sell char kway teow! may be more lucrative.
    In today's economy, many people are looking for multiple income sources. black cat or white cat, the one that catches the rat is a good one. at least, successful chau kuey tiao seller drive big luxury cars.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    The two organisations are not just involved in organising the competitions. We also have joint commissioned photo exhibitions.

    PSS has highlighted to HPB about the rules and regulation. They shall consider our recommendations for next year's competition.

    For info, those regular competition photographers are now gearing up for the competition. Either get distracted by the comments here and give away your chance, or one can choose to stick by his or her decision.

    Rules are set by HPB's legal team. Accept it and submit or reject it by keeping your photographs for other competition. there are so many around. This is called Image management.
    why do you have to keep telling me what other people who wants to join the competition are doing? what they do doesn't affect me at all, and whether i join or not doesn't concern you, i am a private individual. if you really want me to announce to the whole world, ok, I WON'T BE JOINING THIS COMPETITION! happy? doesn't affect you at all right? then? i WAS only concerned how PSS handled this issue because i THOUGHT PSS was supposed to represent the interest of the photography community. sigh ...

  15. #135

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    IN CONCLUSION, If one treasure his works so much, one will not use them for competition.

    I work on several series of works every year.My better works are not meant for submission to competition because I treasure them. I will only use those "loose"pieces for submission. This is my principle, but may differ for others.

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    why do you have to keep telling me what other people who wants to join the competition are doing? what they do doesn't affect me at all, and whether i join or not doesn't concern you, i am a private individual. if you really want me to announce to the whole world, ok, I WON'T BE JOINING THIS COMPETITION! happy? doesn't affect you at all right? then? i WAS only concerned how PSS handled this issue because i THOUGHT PSS was supposed to represent the interest of the photography community. sigh ...
    For obvious reasons, we have to clarify our stance. HPB shall also clarifies theirs. We also have to be responsible for our words.

    I would suggest a cool down period. Look back at the threads. I agree that this is an "open" forum and people tend to shoot without obligation. there are always certain comments that are not necessary. Statements that sway public sentiments, especially against PSS,I have to step in, even though this is supposed to be a HPB project. Main reason, we have to protect the interests of our 2,000 over members. This is our responsibilities.

    This is also why i am monitoring this thread at the expense of my rest time. i have not slept since the last 36 hours.

    PSS is a non-profit organisation whose aim is to promote the art of photography to the masses, and its members enjoy other privileges. I am not going to repeat what I have said with regards to whether the rules are fair or not. Because there are always a group of photographers out there who know what they want, how to manage their images, calculating their potential gains and losses, now gearing up for the competition.I mention this to show that there are indeed various groups of photographers out there with different priorities.

    Life is short. Let us enjoy what we want in photography. With loving kindness and be friends.

  17. #137

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    aye cool down everyone. i guess there is a certain amount of truth in what steven has said, although personally, i believe most of us are approaching this issue from a moralistic point of view, which i am compelled to agree with. that, which is pss's stand on fair treatment to photographers. however enough has been said and i won't repeat what others have said in my own words.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    We cannot speak on behalf of the Press photographers, who are facing this problem everyday. But I am sure many people do not mind being featured in the papers. I will probably buy a stack of newspapers if I am featured in it.
    im one myself. the problem isn't as severe as you mention, but quite a rarity if you consider the amount of pictures published each day. in either case, we sought to resolve the issue, in win-win situations. if a company which rolls out hundreds of pictures a day is able to mantain such sound business and moral practices, i hope competitions to this regard value photographers and the models just as much, in the not too distant future.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    By the way, did you submit for the Total Defence Competition a few months back that has more than S$70,000 worth of prizes?
    by the way, congratulations on your multiple wins at the competition. must have been exciting shooting at locations which members of the ordinary public don't usually get to.

    then again, was it really you who won? or someone else who bore a similar name to yours? i must have been too dazed and hallucinated that PSS was one of the organisers.

  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by candy
    aye cool down everyone. i guess there is a certain amount of truth in what steven has said, although personally, i believe most of us are approaching this issue from a moralistic point of view, which i am compelled to agree with. that, which is pss's stand on fair treatment to photographers. however enough has been said and i won't repeat what others have said in my own words.

    im one myself. the problem isn't as severe as you mention, but quite a rarity if you consider the amount of pictures published each day. in either case, we sought to resolve the issue, in win-win situations. if a company which rolls out hundreds of pictures a day is able to mantain such sound business and moral practices, i hope competitions to this regard value photographers and the models just as much, in the not too distant future.

    by the way, congratulations on your multiple wins at the competition. must have been exciting shooting at locations which members of the ordinary public don't usually do.

    then again, was it really you who won? or someone else who bore a similar name to yours? i must have been too dazed and hallucinated that PSS was one of the organisers.
    I only got 3 consolations out of the 75 images I submitted (there are 50 consolation prizes up for grabs). 2 out of the 3 are shot in public places with open access. That competition was not a good "hunting" trip for me though. There were bigger winners.

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    I only got 3 consolations out of the 75 images I submitted (there are 50 consolation prizes up for grabs). 2 out of the 3 are shot in public places with open access. That competition was not a good "hunting" trip for me though. There were bigger winners.
    appreciate your candid reply.

  20. #140
    vince123123
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    Don't you think that this statement by you is also potentially defamatory (aside from the issue of non-identity) or at least more inflammatory? I think if you want to engage in free debate here, you shouldn't be hanging the sword of defamation on other people. I think this insinuation is more damaging than the one that eikin said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee

    My latest info from a source is some of the comments here are made by professional photographers who fear for their ricebowls. Don't worry. If you fear, i also fear. At the end of the day, these competitions will not affect the ricebowls. When an advertising campaign starts, professional photography is needed. There is always a constraint when it comes to using pictures from competitions.

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