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Thread: Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

  1. #21

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    These are my personal opinions about photo competitions:

    I take part in photo competitions because it gives me (a non full-time photographer) opportunities to shoot with specific themes and purpose. It is through this process that I improve in my photography skills.

    Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't. If I win, it is also a form of motivation and bonus in terms of prizes or cash to subsidise those expensive photographic equipments. Photography is a very expensive hobby!

    If I don't win, its OK because photography is very subjective. It depends a lot on the judges. From photo competitions, I learned a lot by studying other people's winning shot. I don't see a point in keeping at home thousands of images I've taken.

    In most competitions I've participated, they only take the copyright when I win a prize. And most of them will credit me if they will use my photos.

    If you feel that the rules and regulations are not fair or the prize is not worth your photos, then don't participate!

    Again Its just my personal opinions.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    wow... nowadays these competitions really unfair to the photographers...
    these CEOs are paid peanuts .... what do you expect?
    always the Light, .... always.

  3. #23
    vince123123
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    Please be careful on what the "HPB" says here and what is actually on the rules and regulations. If you want to be safe, whatever they say here should be on the Rules and Regulations, or you will have a field day trying to link the two (showing he's really who he is, that he is authorised to make the statement, that the statement is a collateral contract, or that the statement is a material representation that you relied on to join the contest etc).

    In short, I wouldn't place too much weight on whatever is said here.
    Note also that the currrent wording in the regulations essentially gives the HPB the right to do anything with your photograph, so long as "for the purposes of displaying the work in exhibitions, HPB’s marketing and health education collaterals," Note also that it is possible that HPB can be paid to exhibit the work (aka an exhibition which pays HPB for exhibition :P) as it is not limited to non-paid exhibitions.

    In short, caution should be taken as far as the legal impact of this matter is concerned.

    Please also note the indemnity clause 7 - it also catches a situation where someone alleges infringement, but where the allegation is false.

    Also note Clause 5 - works must be "unpublished".

    Also look at clause vi - it states "All particpants (sic) must ensure that permission has been obtained from their models (if any are featured in their photographs) to allow their photos to be used by HPB according to Section 7 of the Rules & Regulations." Section 7 is the indemnity clause and does not stipulate any criteria for the level of permission required or the type of use contemplated.

    Hope the above has been useful.

  4. #24

    Lightbulb

    i emailed hpb if they indeed posted a reply on cs. they confirmed that the organising committee of the photography competition did.

  5. #25

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    will pass, prizes not enticing haha..

  6. #26
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    If HPB gets paid for suppling the photos ( which you have shot ), you gets NOTHING.
    If someone in the picture sues you over the use of the picture which HPB have given the permission to use. You fight the case yourself and HPB is not responsible for anything.
    Get model release? If the shot is a group shot of people you don't know at a public event, good luck to you.
    Basically HPB is just covering their own behind. They just want as many pictures as possible without paying a reasonable cost to use the image. Looking at the T&C the impression I get is this: once you submit your images, you have given HPB a blank cheque to use your images in any way they see fit. If they get paid for it, you get nothing. If you get sued for it, they will have nothing to do with it.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #27
    vince123123
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    heheh
    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    If HPB gets paid for suppling the photos ( which you have shot ), you gets NOTHING.
    If someone in the picture sues you over the use of the picture which HPB have given the permission to use. You fight the case yourself and HPB is not responsible for anything.
    Get model release? If the shot is a group shot of people you don't know at a public event, good luck to you.
    Basically HPB is just covering their own behind. They just want as many pictures as possible without paying a reasonable cost to use the image. Looking at the T&C the impression I get is this: once you submit your images, you have given HPB a blank cheque to use your images in any way they see fit. If they get paid for it, you get nothing. If you get sued for it, they will have nothing to do with it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    heheh
    yeah! other than you there are others laughing. HPB, they're laughing all the way to the bank with all the savings they saved from free images submitted for the competation.

    And the best thing is that PSS, who's suppose to be helping to promote photography in SG have lend their name to this effort. Either they do not read the T&Cs and blindly lean their name or they are part of this and approved of this kind of competation.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    And the best thing is that PSS, who's suppose to be helping to promote photography in SG have lend their name to this effort. Either they do not read the T&Cs and blindly lean their name or they are part of this and approved of this kind of competation.
    There are various ways PSS could be supporting the competition...they could be helping to judge the competition only, given their expertise in appreciating photos. So I wouldn't be so quick as to jump on PSS on this issue.

    As for the rules of the competition, well there are so many competitions out there with similar rules, read the Epson one. It's almost identical. At least the rules are stated upfront, I'm sure these organisations would prefer that you submit photos that don't breach any laws, it's a lot of unnecessary trouble to go through even if they are not held responsible for it legally.

    And of course these organisations would want to get something out of the competition (not necessarily free photos, they have to pay for prizes too. But yes, cheaper photos.) They are not photography clubs mah, why would they want to promote photography per se?

    But I think it's good that we are reading the rules carefully, get the grounds covered. So we can make an informed decision about whether to take part. We do have a choice not to take part if we don't like the rules. Right? Like someone said earlier on in this thread, if response to these competitions are poor, they will die a natural death.

  10. #30
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    Don't you think that it is strange when somebody brought the rules up and suddenly there is a new nick being registered replying to this thread. First post some more.

  11. #31
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    Hi Zookeeper,
    Hope you do not take offence to my posting below. It is not meant to be anything personnal. Just that though I do agreed with you somewhat. I have a diff. view on this. And I find that by going point by point, I can get my views across better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookeeper
    There are various ways PSS could be supporting the competition...they could be helping to judge the competition only, given their expertise in appreciating photos. So I wouldn't be so quick as to jump on PSS on this issue.
    PSS is not just any photo club. The part about signing away your copyrights is something which is against the interest of the very people PSS is trying to help/promote, namely, the photographers.If PSS can stay silent about the T&Cs, just because they are not part of the committee that set the T&Cs than, in my personal opinion, I think PSS have fail to speak up for photographers. Unless PSS feels that they are around only for the sole purpose of promoting photography and the rights of a photographer is not something which they're concern about or want to promote/educate, in this case, I think PSS is still stack in the 1960s

    Think about it, would you want to support any org which hurts the interest of people you're trying to help? Bear in mind that in the eyes of the public, PSS is not just any photo club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookeeper
    As for the rules of the competition, well there are so many competitions out there with similar rules, read the Epson one. It's almost identical. At least the rules are stated upfront, I'm sure these organisations would prefer that you submit photos that don't breach any laws, it's a lot of unnecessary trouble to go through even if they are not held responsible for it legally.
    yes, agreed with you on this one. As someone once said " cover ass time"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookeeper
    And of course these organisations would want to get something out of the competition (not necessarily free photos, they have to pay for prizes too. But yes, cheaper photos.) They are not photography clubs mah, why would they want to promote photography per se?
    Yes, again I agree with you. they're not a photo club and they're not in the business of promoting photography. So why are they orging a photo competation? To get free/ dirt cheap photos lor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookeeper
    But I think it's good that we are reading the rules carefully, get the grounds covered. So we can make an informed decision about whether to take part. We do have a choice not to take part if we don't like the rules. Right? Like someone said earlier on in this thread, if response to these competitions are poor, they will die a natural death.
    Well, PSS is their lifeline. Not many will question when they see that PSS is lending them their support.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  12. #32
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    I happen to know some people in the HPB. They are a small division of the health ministry run on a small budget, but tasked with some big goals. Their staff are paid regular civil service pay. Whatever the HPB pays out in prizes/gifts/incentives will just be routed back to the taxpayer. So, why is there a problem if they want to do this on the cheap? Power to the HPB, if they can get the photos FREE, so much the better.

  13. #33

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    Hi ygt, no offence taken, not to worry We are all just airing our views here.

    Maybe because I've taken lessons at PSS before, so I'm a bit defensive about them, coz' I do feel they are trying very hard to promote photography (being a non-profit organisation and all their teachers are volunteers), so I don't think that they will try to harm photographers' interest. Like I said, we don't know how exactly they are supporting the competition, so I'm really not comfortable with attributing the T&Cs to them. I guess after they read this, they will be more alert as to the rules of competitions they are supporting.

    Yes, agree with you that organisations organise the competitions to save some moolah, makes economic sense mah. I'm a little puzzled actually...forgive me for bringing Epson into the picture, just that I was interested in that competition and happened to study the rules and regulations. They are really quite similar but no one seems upset with Epson. Are we too uptight about anything "gahment"?

    Anyway, i think this has been debated enough in this thread (1000+ views, wow!)...the most impt thing has been said...to know the rules and make an informed decision.

  14. #34
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    i sent the photography competition for the national heritage board for schools, into hiding because of a similiar reasoning.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehsuan
    i sent the photography competition for the national heritage board for schools, into hiding because of a similiar reasoning.
    Did you manage to find out where they hiding?

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbma
    Don't you think that it is strange when somebody brought the rules up and suddenly there is a new nick being registered replying to this thread. First post some more.
    what so strange? the organiser registered to reply/clarify things lor. reachme has already verified that it is from HPB. bro, next time read further b4 giving unncessary comment.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundugundu
    Did you manage to find out where they hiding?
    they didn't hide anything... i just hid the papers and forms and posters away

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Hi Zookeeper,
    Hope you do not take offence to my posting below. It is not meant to be anything personnal. Just that though I do agreed with you somewhat. I have a diff. view on this. And I find that by going point by point, I can get my views across better.

    PSS is not just any photo club. The part about signing away your copyrights is something which is against the interest of the very people PSS is trying to help/promote, namely, the photographers.If PSS can stay silent about the T&Cs, just because they are not part of the committee that set the T&Cs than, in my personal opinion, I think PSS have fail to speak up for photographers. Unless PSS feels that they are around only for the sole purpose of promoting photography and the rights of a photographer is not something which they're concern about or want to promote/educate, in this case, I think PSS is still stack in the 1960s

    Think about it, would you want to support any org which hurts the interest of people you're trying to help? Bear in mind that in the eyes of the public, PSS is not just any photo club.

    yes, agreed with you on this one. As someone once said " cover ass time"

    Yes, again I agree with you. they're not a photo club and they're not in the business of promoting photography. So why are they orging a photo competation? To get free/ dirt cheap photos lor.

    Well, PSS is their lifeline. Not many will question when they see that PSS is lending them their support.
    I am on assignment in India now but I was asked by some of my friends to have a peek at this thread.

    Firstly, PSS's role in this competition is to provide the judges, judging venue and exhibition venue. That is all. HPB has their legal department to draft their form. We have worked with HPB before and we trust their integrity as an organisation.We trust that they will not misuse the image. We also have to respect their rules and regulation.

    secondly, PSS is not always involved in the drafting of the rules and regulations. However, for Life is Great competition, PSS is involved and consulted in the process.

    PSS is not a legal entity and our objectives is mainly to promote photography in Singapore. We do not have the legal teams to provide advise for photographers. Every organiser of competitions have their reasons and objectives. Itis very much up to the decision of photographers whether to take part or not. It is like lottery tickets. You got the money, but it is your choice whether to get a ticket and try your luck to win big prizes. If you lose, your money is forfeited. If you win, your small investment multiply many folds.

    Inmy opinion, if HPB really wants images, they have their team of photographers and they have the resources to hire professional photographers.

    Let us just reflect, and enjoy the shooting process.

    We have more things to achieve in life.

  19. #39
    vince123123
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    If this is indeed the position, one wonders why Clause 4 and 5 are drafted the way they currently are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Yee
    Inmy opinion, if HPB really wants images, they have their team of photographers and they have the resources to hire professional photographers.

  20. #40
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    in my opinion is always seem that organisers jus 1 2 cut cost. talk about support 4 local arts scene. my impression is that our local artworkz including photos r way undervalued. reflective of our nation's support 4 arts...

    to borrow Steven Yee's quote:"It is like lottery tickets. You got the money, but it is your choice whether to get a ticket and try your luck to win big prizes. If you lose, your money is forfeited. If you win, your small investment multiply many folds."

    such a mindset will not do. i see no link in taking part in a photography competition & striking lottery/prize. if so, wad about sports competition? held in schools, locally, or international level like Olympics?

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