Health Promotion Board Digital Competition 2005

billpepsi · 13th July 2005

Anybody participating in this competition.

Quote:

5. Participants who do not win a prize in this competition shall grant HPB a non-exclusive perpetual licence and rights to use, reproduce, and prepare derivative works of the low-resolution image submitted, .....

http://www.hpb.gov.sg/photocompetiti...egulations.htm

Does this statement means for those shortisted photos that don't win a prize, HPB automatically have the rights to reproduce them, though the copyright still belongs to the participant ???

Del_CtrlnoAlt · 13th July 2005

wow... nowadays these competitions really unfair to the photographers...

Hobbesyeo · 13th July 2005

aiyoh.. so terok one!

HPB Competition · 13th July 2005

Dear Clubsnappers,

The Health Promotion Board's mission is to promote a healthy lifestyle to all Singaporeans. The photo competition is to get more Singaporeans to think deeper into what a healthy lifestyle involves. We feel pictures will convey this message well to fellow residents.

Not all the photos submitted for the competition this year will be used by HPB. Those that we use are likely to be those worthy of merit. In reality, we can only award 26 prizes. But there may be more good photos that are deserving. Deserving photos which we can use in our brochures and publications to promote health, will also enable photographers to get the exposure and chance to showcase their works.

We would like to think of it as a win-win situation for HPB and the participating photographers. We get to promote good health to Singaporeans and you get a shot at showcasing your works as well as helping Singaporeans understand good, healthy lifestyles.

If we use these photos which did not win a prize, we will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio.

You can also write in if there are compelling reasons why we cannot use your non-winning photo. We will consider each request, case by case.

Hope this clarifies.

Wishing you good health, and happy photography,
Health Promotion Board
"Full of Health, Full of Life!" Digital Photography Competition
Organising Committee

Del_CtrlnoAlt · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by HPB Competition

Dear Clubsnappers,

The Health Promotion Board's mission is to promote a healthy lifestyle to all Singaporeans. The photo competition is to get more Singaporeans to think deeper into what a healthy lifestyle involves. We feel pictures will convey this message well to fellow residents.

Not all the photos submitted for the competition this year will be used by HPB. Those that we use are likely to be those worthy of merit. In reality, we can only award 26 prizes. But there may be more good photos that are deserving. Deserving photos which we can use in our brochures and publications to promote health, will also enable photographers to get the exposure and chance to showcase their works.

We would like to think of it as a win-win situation for HPB and the participating photographers. We get to promote good health to Singaporeans and you get a shot at showcasing your works as well as helping Singaporeans understand good, healthy lifestyles.

If we use these photos which did not win a prize, we will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio.

You can also write in if there are compelling reasons why we cannot use your non-winning photo. We will consider each request, case by case.

Hope this clarifies.

Wishing you good health, and happy photography,
Health Promotion Board
"Full of Health, Full of Life!" Digital Photography Competition
Organising Committee

Thanks for your clarifications, i'll buy that..

eng_keow · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by HPB Competition

Dear Clubsnappers,

Not all the photos submitted for the competition this year will be used by HPB. Those that we use are likely to be those worthy of merit. In reality, we can only award 26 prizes. But there may be more good photos that are deserving. Deserving photos which we can use in our brochures and publications to promote health, will also enable photographers to get the exposure and chance to showcase their works.

We would like to think of it as a win-win situation for HPB and the participating photographers. We get to promote good health to Singaporeans and you get a shot at showcasing your works as well as helping Singaporeans understand good, healthy lifestyles.

If we use these photos which did not win a prize, we will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio.

SORRY, I don't buy that at all.

I am puzzled about the approach HPB is taking. On one hand it seems that they would want a win-win situation where they have the right to use those photos that are good enough to help them promote health in Singapore and we get to show case our works. On the other hand, they cannot even promise that they will give credit where it is due and just lamely 'try', giving an excuse of 'lack of space'. This is PURE RUBBISH. As if one needs a lot of SPACE to acknowledge the photographer.

This is not the first time a competition is organised. See how others do it with class and finesse. The recent Great Eastern Life - Life is great competition is an example. Here is a quote of the rules:

"All winning entries will become the sole property of Great Eastern who also reserves the right to use them in any manner deemed fit, without payment of any fee. Entries will not be returned. If any other shortlisted images are found to be appropriate for use by Great Eastern, Great Eastern shall negotiate with the photographer on the terms of their use."

So HPB, learn from others and BE BOLD. Dare to stand up and acknowledge every single credit where it is due. Don't say I will try or do it whenever possible and if I miss out for whatever reason, don't blame me. To me, HPB is just taking a safe legal stand so that we cannot persue them if any of our photos appear on their material.

Think about it.

kitkat · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by HPB Competition

You can also write in if there are compelling reasons why we cannot use your non-winning photo. We will consider each request, case by case.

That i consider , unfair condition to photographers in general.

zenon · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by eng_keow

On the other hand, they cannot even promise that they will give credit where it is due and just lamely 'try', giving an excuse of 'lack of space'. This is PURE RUBBISH. As if one needs a lot of SPACE to acknowledge the photographer.

I thought they said that they WILL credit? Either on the publication, if not, in the form of a letter to you?

"will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio."

Hobbesyeo · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by HPB Competition

Dear Clubsnappers,

.....Wishing you good health, and happy photography,
Health Promotion Board
"Full of Health, Full of Life!" Digital Photography Competition
Organising Committee

I think its great that HPB came out to clarify themselves (assuming the poster is who the nick implies, and is indeed speaking on behalf of HPB).

Unfortunately, the clarification isn't quite enough. While it is your right to organize your competition however you wish, the wholesale transfer of image rights simply because you joined the competition, is instinctively unfair.

I can think of two reasons for that condition. One, is so HPB does not have to grapple with copyright/compensation issues, and two, its the cheapest and fastest way to build up an image library for your future publications.

The real win-win situation would be to scrape that condition.

HPB wins because more serious photographers will participate, hence raising the quality of the competition.

Photographers win because they receive proper recongnition and hopefully, compensation for their time and creative efforts.

All said and done, it’s a free country. You can do what you like as long as you are aware of what you are getting into.

Good luck.

eng_keow · 13th July 2005

Originally Posted by zenon

I thought they said that they WILL credit? Either on the publication, if not, in the form of a letter to you?

"will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio."

Yup, they did say WILL credit but whenever possible. I suppose if we take that as sincere as it gets then we will accept their clarifications in good faith. I was juz wondering why they can't say that all photographers will be credited for their work if it is used. I mean, there is so much talk about intellectual property and I just find it unsettling that a big organisation like HPB should not honor the work of others.

Well, OK, maybe I should give them the benefit of doubt since they say that they will write to the owner that their work is being used.

Ah Pao · 13th July 2005

Actually, no big deal if the organisation uses my photo for their publication...of course credit must be given.

Seriously, if anyone is not happy with the T&C, one can always NOT take part in the competition. Let those who are interested and don't mind the T&C take part lor.

If the T&C is really so unfair against the photographer, the organisation will know when nobody takes part in the competition. Action is louder than words!

uncleparty · 13th July 2005

this isn't win-win at all. in reality, how many photographers are actually contacted through credit work? the price of credit to a photographer, is not equal to the savings obtained by hpb.

if hpb has only budget for 26 prizes, it is only fair and ethical that those 26 pictures be used. if other collaterals require images apart from this 26, budget should be set aside for those individual projects for a designer & photographer.

billpepsi · 13th July 2005

Since the photographer owns the copyright license, for those photos not entitled to the prizes, shouldn’t it be the other way round that HPB negotiates with the photographer on the terms of their use, rather then to automatically grant non-exclusive perpetual licence to HPB??

Quote:

All winning entries will become the sole property of Great Eastern who also reserves the right to use them in any manner deemed fit, without payment of any fee. Entries will not be returned. If any other shortlisted images are found to be appropriate for use by Great Eastern, Great Eastern shall negotiate with the photographer on the terms of their use."

IMHO, Great Eastern is being fair here.

sehsuan · 13th July 2005

i know my photos are worthless, in the sense that my photos aren't up to standard for publishing, but competitions like this take the cake.

there's this other competition that my school had from the national heritage board, i think, where students have their category, and the open has another category. i can't imagine explaining to primary school students that they don't own their photos after they submit it in.

in the end? i just "ate up" the contest forms that my principal forwarded to me. *munch munch*

ortega · 14th July 2005

No go for me, good luck to those who join

sehsuan · 14th July 2005

btw, i once met Mr Liew Tong Leng (who won the GE Life is Great comp last year), but he DID have a little point when he said, "if you dont submit, you win nothing". to him, the shots dont seem to hold that great a value, except a stab at the prize.

just saw that he won another photo comp AGAIN in addition to a s-league shoot last year or this year... and i believe it's his philosophy of giving it a shot, while folks like myself would opt out, that's why he has less people to contend with. in no way, am i trying to say i have good shots, but moreso i dont want to grant FREE UNLIMITED usage to another government sector even though i'm in the public service sector. hold the copyright, but can't control the photo for use, who gets the last laugh?

mattlock · 14th July 2005

well
that's like prostituting your photography community in exchange for prizes.
contests like these are exploitive methods of getting free photos
soon everyone will just hold a contest to get free photos

I'm sure organisations like HPB are aware that a single photo for commercial use usually costs 3 figures upwards depending on the scale of usage, etc etc
I have never come across a contest that was serious about promoting photography that demanded full rights to photographs

reachme2003 · 14th July 2005

i wonder which photographic body/ies advise HPB? if they are not advised, then they are quite bold to include that contentious term/condition. i feel that non-winning entries confer no right of use(whatsoever) to the organiser. afterall, there are better entries which have won prizes from the organizer.

Hobbesyeo · 14th July 2005

Originally Posted by reachme2003

i wonder which photographic body/ies advise HPB? .....

http://www.hpb.gov.sg/photocompetiti...egulations.htm

Look at the bottom of the page.

reachme2003 · 14th July 2005

thanks. it is supported by PSS. i wonder why they are agreeable to such term/condition?

Originally Posted by Hobbesyeo

http://www.hpb.gov.sg/photocompetiti...egulations.htm

Look at the bottom of the page.

13th July 2005	#2
Del_CtrlnoAlt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Outside the Dry Box. Posts: 16,340	wow... nowadays these competitions really unfair to the photographers... __________________ Logging Off Permanently. Those who need to contact me will know where to contact me.

13th July 2005	#12
uncleparty Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 255	this isn't win-win at all. in reality, how many photographers are actually contacted through credit work? the price of credit to a photographer, is not equal to the savings obtained by hpb. if hpb has only budget for 26 prizes, it is only fair and ethical that those 26 pictures be used. if other collaterals require images apart from this 26, budget should be set aside for those individual projects for a designer & photographer. __________________ Edmund Leong Photography

14th July 2005	#15
ortega Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NorthEast Posts: 16,938	No go for me, good luck to those who join __________________ The Law

13th July 2005	#3
Hobbesyeo Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 997	aiyoh.. so terok one!

13th July 2005	#4
HPB Competition New Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1	Dear Clubsnappers, The Health Promotion Board's mission is to promote a healthy lifestyle to all Singaporeans. The photo competition is to get more Singaporeans to think deeper into what a healthy lifestyle involves. We feel pictures will convey this message well to fellow residents. Not all the photos submitted for the competition this year will be used by HPB. Those that we use are likely to be those worthy of merit. In reality, we can only award 26 prizes. But there may be more good photos that are deserving. Deserving photos which we can use in our brochures and publications to promote health, will also enable photographers to get the exposure and chance to showcase their works. We would like to think of it as a win-win situation for HPB and the participating photographers. We get to promote good health to Singaporeans and you get a shot at showcasing your works as well as helping Singaporeans understand good, healthy lifestyles. If we use these photos which did not win a prize, we will credit the photographer whenever possible. If there are reasons why we cannot credit the photographer (e.g. lack of space), we will write in to the photographer to inform him we are using his photo for that particular material, so he may use our letter as reference for his portfolio. You can also write in if there are compelling reasons why we cannot use your non-winning photo. We will consider each request, case by case. Hope this clarifies. Wishing you good health, and happy photography, Health Promotion Board "Full of Health, Full of Life!" Digital Photography Competition Organising Committee

13th July 2005	#11
Ah Pao Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,586	Actually, no big deal if the organisation uses my photo for their publication...of course credit must be given. Seriously, if anyone is not happy with the T&C, one can always NOT take part in the competition. Let those who are interested and don't mind the T&C take part lor. If the T&C is really so unfair against the photographer, the organisation will know when nobody takes part in the competition. Action is louder than words!

13th July 2005	#14
sehsuan Deregistered Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,674	i know my photos are worthless, in the sense that my photos aren't up to standard for publishing, but competitions like this take the cake. there's this other competition that my school had from the national heritage board, i think, where students have their category, and the open has another category. i can't imagine explaining to primary school students that they don't own their photos after they submit it in. in the end? i just "ate up" the contest forms that my principal forwarded to me. munch munch

14th July 2005	#17
mattlock Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,768	well that's like prostituting your photography community in exchange for prizes. contests like these are exploitive methods of getting free photos soon everyone will just hold a contest to get free photos I'm sure organisations like HPB are aware that a single photo for commercial use usually costs 3 figures upwards depending on the scale of usage, etc etc I have never come across a contest that was serious about promoting photography that demanded full rights to photographs

14th July 2005	#18
reachme2003 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,575	i wonder which photographic body/ies advise HPB? if they are not advised, then they are quite bold to include that contentious term/condition. i feel that non-winning entries confer no right of use(whatsoever) to the organiser. afterall, there are better entries which have won prizes from the organizer.