Careful when buying used

glchua · 12th July 2005

Bought a used M6 early this year. Cosmetically it was fantastic, almost no sign of use at all. However, the film rewind was a little stiff (seller brushed it off as normal) and recently developed some intermittent shutter firing problems. I thought probably this old camera just needs a CLA.

When I send it to Schmidt, I was told that my camera had a bad knock before which had caused a bent in the rewind shaft, hence the rewind stiffness. Most likely the top section was replaced to hide the knock for sale. The shutter release mechanism in the camera was also previously been worked on and it was a bad job thus causing the intermittent shutter problems. The technician said he had never seen such a poor condition in the shutter release mechanism.

All these problems in a mint looking camera sold for a high price.

Just posting here for all to be careful when buying used. Minty looking stuffs might not be as they are.

ricohflex · 12th July 2005

Good to know.
Thanks for sharing.
Better still if you can tell us the seller's name or the shop (in PM)

Terence · 12th July 2005

Sorry to hear that GL, hope the repairs didn't cost too much. But knowing Schmidt, it might just be a pretty bundle. Perhaps you should approach the seller to see what can be done.

glchua · 12th July 2005

I don't mind naming a shop but it was a clubsnap member who sold me the camera. I will assume, regardless correctly or not, that the seller might have inherited this from the shop that sold him the camera.

I am expecting a cost of repair close to the price of a new VC R3A!

I am more worried of the turnaround time, if it gets a trip to it's birthplace, that would be more than a couple of months of downtime, and a sky-high bill. If that's the case, it'll be going to Purgatory Road in USA.....Sherry Krauter.

glchua · 12th July 2005

The worrying thing is most of us mortals would not have spotted such problems when we buy used. And we would not be familiar with the characteristics of the particular model. The damage was really well concealed in my case. Now can only blame it on my bad luck.

Terence · 12th July 2005

I would still approach the seller with the problem. Selling it off does not release him from the responsibility of passing off a shoddy camera to someone else.

I think you might be better off sending to DAG or Sherry, it should be a 6-8 weeks turnaround time if you include express shipping. The cost will be less than letting Schmidt handle the repairs.

gtan · 12th July 2005

i would not let schmidt touch it. they can only handle basic stuff. send it direct to leica in solms. cheaper and more importantly it would be a job well done

glchua · 12th July 2005

Thanks for the advice. I'll see how much Schmidt quotes me. Sherry had told me a turnaround time of 3 weeks and an estimate of US$290 for CLA, but that was before I tell her the problem. If I include in a shaft change for the rewind and a change of shutter mechanism, that would be a huge bill.

If it's too complex, I think Schmidt will send to Solms too, but I was told that the turnaround time could even be 3 months.

Terence · 12th July 2005

Schmidt will send it to Solms, no doubt. Had a friend who had a major CLA done on a M4-P, shutter assembly replaced, viewfinder upgraded in addition to the regular clean and lube... $1920. The camera was sent to Solms via Schmidt. It did come back working very nicely though. It's the one you see in my camera porn threads of RFF.

I honestly think DAG or Sherry will be able to take care of the problem for a bit less. Try describing the problem as clearly as you can and they'd probably be able to give me an accurate quote for the repairs.

I'd have asked the original owner to foor half the repair costs.

glchua · 21st July 2005

Just an update.

Schmidt adviced just a change of rewind shaft and that cost $180.

They took a picture of the shutter release mechanism at the base of the camera. It looks quite bad with some parts bent by careless repair. However, they adviced me not to repair it as it will be very costly. Better do it together with a complete CLA. Schmidt did some adjustments instead which was done without charge. The shutter release feels more responsive now.

It is quite heart wrenching to see a Leica being abused this way.

The seller did contact me and explained that he was not aware of the problem and that the cam was ordered from KEH. I guess I accept that and move on. It's my only 0.72 finder camera so I rather it stay with me for the time being.

Just be a little more carefull when we buy a second-hand M. It should feel like a Leica and we should not be less wary even if it looks perfect. Any imperfections felt should be investigated.

hongsien · 21st July 2005

Originally Posted by glchua

It is quite heart wrenching to see a Leica being abused this way.

Just be a little more carefull when we buy a second-hand M. It should feel like a Leica and we should not be less wary even if it looks perfect. Any imperfections felt should be investigated.

Sorry for your experience, but it can happen to any camera, and it shouldn't be heart wrenching for a Leica only..........

This is the risk of buying used......if you have any doubts, it is better to ask for a check up first before committing to buy it.

Hong Sien

ricohflex · 21st July 2005

Originally Posted by glchua

I don't mind naming a shop but it was a clubsnap member who sold me the camera. I will assume, regardless correctly or not, that the seller might have inherited this from the shop that sold him the camera.

I am expecting a cost of repair close to the price of a new VC R3A!

I am more worried of the turnaround time, if it gets a trip to it's birthplace, that would be more than a couple of months of downtime, and a sky-high bill. If that's the case, it'll be going to Purgatory Road in USA.....Sherry Krauter.

is this road name for real?
you know what purgatory means?
sending Y4 M6 there? hmmm.......

glchua · 22nd July 2005

Originally Posted by ricohflex

is this road name for real?
you know what purgatory means?
sending Y4 M6 there? hmmm.......

Yes, Purgatory road is a place where Leicas have a stopover before going to Heaven.

http://www.sherrykrauter.com/repairs.php

Terence · 22nd July 2005

Or in some cases, Camera Hell... I think you'd find lots of M5s and their crazy meters there...

XXX Boy · 23rd July 2005

Can you list out the nick of that bad trader? At least we can blacklist that person here...or you can PM me..thanks!

eric69 · 23rd July 2005

Originally Posted by XXX Boy

Can you list out the nick of that bad trader? At least we can blacklist that person here...or you can PM me..thanks!

For goodness sake, if you buy something without checking properly, and then later on found that it's faulty or whatever, you don't go around bad mouthing others, huh? What's the point of blacklisting the seller when you too are partly to blame too.

12th July 2005	#1
glchua Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 528	Careful when buying used Bought a used M6 early this year. Cosmetically it was fantastic, almost no sign of use at all. However, the film rewind was a little stiff (seller brushed it off as normal) and recently developed some intermittent shutter firing problems. I thought probably this old camera just needs a CLA. When I send it to Schmidt, I was told that my camera had a bad knock before which had caused a bent in the rewind shaft, hence the rewind stiffness. Most likely the top section was replaced to hide the knock for sale. The shutter release mechanism in the camera was also previously been worked on and it was a bad job thus causing the intermittent shutter problems. The technician said he had never seen such a poor condition in the shutter release mechanism. All these problems in a mint looking camera sold for a high price. Just posting here for all to be careful when buying used. Minty looking stuffs might not be as they are.

12th July 2005	#2
ricohflex Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: sing Posts: 1,537	info Good to know. Thanks for sharing. Better still if you can tell us the seller's name or the shop (in PM)

12th July 2005	#3
Terence Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I'm a Llama! Posts: 4,716	Sorry to hear that GL, hope the repairs didn't cost too much. But knowing Schmidt, it might just be a pretty bundle. Perhaps you should approach the seller to see what can be done. __________________ Visit my photo blog Email only please, NO PM!

12th July 2005	#6
Terence Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I'm a Llama! Posts: 4,716	I would still approach the seller with the problem. Selling it off does not release him from the responsibility of passing off a shoddy camera to someone else. I think you might be better off sending to DAG or Sherry, it should be a 6-8 weeks turnaround time if you include express shipping. The cost will be less than letting Schmidt handle the repairs. __________________ Visit my photo blog Email only please, NO PM!

12th July 2005	#9
Terence Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I'm a Llama! Posts: 4,716	Schmidt will send it to Solms, no doubt. Had a friend who had a major CLA done on a M4-P, shutter assembly replaced, viewfinder upgraded in addition to the regular clean and lube... $1920. The camera was sent to Solms via Schmidt. It did come back working very nicely though. It's the one you see in my camera porn threads of RFF. I honestly think DAG or Sherry will be able to take care of the problem for a bit less. Try describing the problem as clearly as you can and they'd probably be able to give me an accurate quote for the repairs. I'd have asked the original owner to foor half the repair costs. __________________ Visit my photo blog Email only please, NO PM!

12th July 2005	#7
gtan Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 117	i would not let schmidt touch it. they can only handle basic stuff. send it direct to leica in solms. cheaper and more importantly it would be a job well done

21st July 2005	#10
glchua Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 528	Just an update. Schmidt adviced just a change of rewind shaft and that cost $180. They took a picture of the shutter release mechanism at the base of the camera. It looks quite bad with some parts bent by careless repair. However, they adviced me not to repair it as it will be very costly. Better do it together with a complete CLA. Schmidt did some adjustments instead which was done without charge. The shutter release feels more responsive now. It is quite heart wrenching to see a Leica being abused this way. The seller did contact me and explained that he was not aware of the problem and that the cam was ordered from KEH. I guess I accept that and move on. It's my only 0.72 finder camera so I rather it stay with me for the time being. Just be a little more carefull when we buy a second-hand M. It should feel like a Leica and we should not be less wary even if it looks perfect. Any imperfections felt should be investigated.

22nd July 2005	#14
Terence Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I'm a Llama! Posts: 4,716	Or in some cases, Camera Hell... I think you'd find lots of M5s and their crazy meters there... __________________ Visit my photo blog Email only please, NO PM!

23rd July 2005	#15
XXX Boy Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: GEYLAND LOR 15 LO Posts: 1,104	Can you list out the nick of that bad trader? At least we can blacklist that person here...or you can PM me..thanks!