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Thread: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

  1. #21
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by wackykid View Post
    as for the poll... looks like it's really a wrong place to post... you may find it useless.. but i find it quite useful so far... but ONLY after i reposted it in another (more popular) forum that i got several more responses and it is showing a certain trend... certainly there IS difference to the untrained eye (oh the irony) else the poll should get more or less a balanced result... moreover i can understand why the trend is liddat... apparently i've used too much bokeh on those closed up shots and these generally are not favored (hence the bridge camera wins)... and those shots that don't have bokeh effects the camera with superior lens/sensor (i.e. the interchangeable lens camera) is favoured... so i'd probably stick to the interchangeable lens camera and watch out on my overuse of large aperture next time...
    Just start your hobby and hopefully in some time you will look back at this 'poll' and see / understand why it is a failure from photographic point of view. But it seems you only like to believe what sounds nice to you instead of taking the bitter pill of learning from mistakes. The "responses" you describe and your postings reveal that both sides have much to learn ...
    Last edited by Octarine; 27th May 2014 at 10:04 AM.
    EOS

  2. #22

    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    I ate a delicious meal yesterday. The chef must have had super good knife and pots .

    Or was it his ingredients (subject ), his cooking skills (composition skills ) and presentation (editing ) ?

    Hmmmm. Something to think about
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  3. #23

    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    I ate a delicious meal yesterday. The chef must have had super good knife and pots .

    Or was it his ingredients (subject ), his cooking skills (composition skills ) and presentation (editing ) ?

    Hmmmm. Something to think about
    sure... why not..?? if it's the same chef then it's the same cooking and editing skills... and if the same ingredients... by right the food should taste the same right..?? but if the food doesn't taste the same... and the difference is statistically significant enough then you must conclude that the type of knife... pots... the fire on the stove MUST have contributed as well...


    regards,
    wacky

  4. #24
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Actually... I do not get what is the big fuss up till now, except that TS used a external survey for his question. Alright, taking it that this is the issue here, then next time TS just don't use external survey.

    If I get the whole thing right, TS is only looking for a solution to a decision as to which camera he is to keep from an existing two camera that he had. And so he come up with a couple of photos. Irregardless of what is his skill level, if his photos are over or under expose or whatever, it simply doesn't matter here. Because he is the one taking the photo and so the skill put into both camera is essentially the same.

    So we just look at the photos and assuming if every other variant is the same, then depend on our own judgement, see which photo works.

    If all the photos doesn't work... then just tell TS, nah, I cannot see too much of a different. That was it. It was not a place where TS ask for critiques to his photo, just, which camera he is going to keep base on photos he had taken.

    Really.... And frankly... I know many would think I am stupid or having too much time on hand... but I did the survey. Because I find among the couple of photos taken, one of them clearly capture more details, are sharper and the such, assuming everything is the same.

    If you ask me... are those photos well taken, I would have say, "no"... but since TS doesn't ask that question... then I will not answer it, simple as that.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  5. #25

    Thumbs up Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Actually... I do not get what is the big fuss up till now, except that TS used a external survey for his question. Alright, taking it that this is the issue here, then next time TS just don't use external survey.

    If I get the whole thing right, TS is only looking for a solution to a decision as to which camera he is to keep from an existing two camera that he had. And so he come up with a couple of photos. Irregardless of what is his skill level, if his photos are over or under expose or whatever, it simply doesn't matter here. Because he is the one taking the photo and so the skill put into both camera is essentially the same.

    So we just look at the photos and assuming if every other variant is the same, then depend on our own judgement, see which photo works.

    If all the photos doesn't work... then just tell TS, nah, I cannot see too much of a different. That was it. It was not a place where TS ask for critiques to his photo, just, which camera he is going to keep base on photos he had taken.

    Really.... And frankly... I know many would think I am stupid or having too much time on hand... but I did the survey. Because I find among the couple of photos taken, one of them clearly capture more details, are sharper and the such, assuming everything is the same.

    If you ask me... are those photos well taken, I would have say, "no"... but since TS doesn't ask that question... then I will not answer it, simple as that.
    thanks..! that hit the spot 100%...! finally someone understood...


    regards,
    wacky

  6. #26
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by wackykid View Post
    sure... why not..?? if it's the same chef then it's the same cooking and editing skills... and if the same ingredients... by right the food should taste the same right..?? but if the food doesn't taste the same... and the difference is statistically significant enough then you must conclude that the type of knife... pots... the fire on the stove MUST have contributed as well...
    So you are seriously telling us that the food of the taste is affected by the knife, the pot and the pan? Are we talking serious here or is it already drifted into esoteric realms? Best to close this thread and for you to move on and learn. Discussions require factual knowledge at first, otherwise this thread should go to Kopitiam.
    EOS

  7. #27

    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    So you are seriously telling us that the food of the taste is affected by the knife, the pot and the pan? Are we talking serious here or is it already drifted into esoteric realms? Best to close this thread and for you to move on and learn. Discussions require factual knowledge at first, otherwise this thread should go to Kopitiam.
    of cos it matters...! whether u are using claypot... metal pot... pressure cooker... frying pan... DOES matter... try frying egg using frying pan vs frying egg on a claypot for instance... and the knife whether u use big or small knife... and whether ur knife is sharp enough or not it's going to affect the cut of your meat... and that is going to affect the texture... and the stove u use... whether the fire is strong enough... or u using charcoal to cook instead of gas or using induction...


    regards,
    wacky
    Last edited by wackykid; 27th May 2014 at 02:34 PM.

  8. #28
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    So we just look at the photos and assuming if every other variant is the same, then depend on our own judgement, see which photo works.
    This assumption is already standing on such weak legs... TS clearly exhibits a low level of knowledge. Instead of guiding him you only support such simplistic approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Because I find among the couple of photos taken, one of them clearly capture more details, are sharper and the such, assuming everything is the same.
    As long as we don't know where this comes from the conclusion is not worth anything. A lack of detail can simply come from a mild handshake or a slow shutter speed or some aggressive JPG compression or even dirt on the lens somewhere. All these are factors coming from the person behind the viewfinder and his skills, knowledge and experience in managing the camera and taking the shot. Based on this a camera system shall be selected?
    I had a look at those pictures and it's obvious that the differences have more to do with a lack of skills than with the camera itself.
    To make that clear: comparing cameras based on images is not wrong. But as long as pictures are not taken under controlled conditions (tripod, consistent lighting, similar settings for ISO and other parameters) all these comparisons are seriously flawed. it would be betetr to search online for the test results and reviews in dpreview.com and others. There TS can find results and details which are accurate and come from controlled test environments.
    EOS

  9. #29
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by wackykid View Post
    of cos it matters...! whether u are using claypot... metal pot... pressure cooker... frying pan... DOES matter... try frying egg using frying pan vs frying egg on a claypot for instance... and the knife whether u use big or small knife... and whether ur knife is sharp enough or not it's going to affect the cut of your meat... and that is going to affect the texture...
    What are you smoking? I doubt it's legal in Singapore.
    EOS

  10. #30
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This assumption is already standing on such weak legs... TS clearly exhibits a low level of knowledge. Instead of guiding him you only support such simplistic approach.


    As long as we don't know where this comes from the conclusion is not worth anything. A lack of detail can simply come from a mild handshake or a slow shutter speed or some aggressive JPG compression or even dirt on the lens somewhere. All these are factors coming from the person behind the viewfinder and his skills, knowledge and experience in managing the camera and taking the shot. Based on this a camera system shall be selected?
    I had a look at those pictures and it's obvious that the differences have more to do with a lack of skills than with the camera itself.
    To make that clear: comparing cameras based on images is not wrong. But as long as pictures are not taken under controlled conditions (tripod, consistent lighting, similar settings for ISO and other parameters) all these comparisons are seriously flawed. it would be betetr to search online for the test results and reviews in dpreview.com and others. There TS can find results and details which are accurate and come from controlled test environments.
    Yes... I understand that the photo are not well taken. The thing is... it is the same amount of skills because it is coming from the same person at the same time when he took the photo. And so I say, assuming everything is the same.

    If it was two different photographers each using one camera and shooting at a scene, then we can say that the conclusion is not too conclusive. However, coming from the same guy, then it is more or less the same. If it was two different photographers using two different camera, then it would be pretty obvious that things are going to be different and the conclusion might not help TS alot.

    If the two cameras that are used to take the photo of a scene but these are from different day (one day it is raining, the other day it is sunny) then the conclusion will not mean anything.

    That is why I say, assuming everything is the same.

    Anyway, I have presented my case and I have done the survey as asked. I am not going any deeper into the discussion. TS had seen what I have written, and if that help him come to a conclusion, fine. If not, he will have to do more to come to the conclusion.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  11. #31

    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    What are you smoking? I doubt it's legal in Singapore.
    dunno wat crackpot you trying to smoke...

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This assumption is already standing on such weak legs... TS clearly exhibits a low level of knowledge. Instead of guiding him you only support such simplistic approach.


    As long as we don't know where this comes from the conclusion is not worth anything. A lack of detail can simply come from a mild handshake or a slow shutter speed or some aggressive JPG compression or even dirt on the lens somewhere. All these are factors coming from the person behind the viewfinder and his skills, knowledge and experience in managing the camera and taking the shot. Based on this a camera system shall be selected?
    I had a look at those pictures and it's obvious that the differences have more to do with a lack of skills than with the camera itself.
    To make that clear: comparing cameras based on images is not wrong. But as long as pictures are not taken under controlled conditions (tripod, consistent lighting, similar settings for ISO and other parameters) all these comparisons are seriously flawed. it would be betetr to search online for the test results and reviews in dpreview.com and others. There TS can find results and details which are accurate and come from controlled test environments.
    i don't need you to know where it comes from... i know it myself can liao... and it's up to myself to make the conclusion...

    and i'm not a professional nor do i even consider myself a semi pro... i'm not going to be bringing along a tripod everywhere i go to take photos... nor do i spend a heck lot of time to consider lighting etc... i only play with simple things like ISO... aperture... shuttle speed... moreover keeping all these settings the same is also UNFAIR to compare 2 different systems because in those conditions... if one camera produced well balanced image then the one with smaller sensor size will be underexposed.. likewise one with larger sensor size will simply be overexposed... hence the most practical way is i gotta make the best out of the camera using watever camera settings needed and with the limited skills i have...

    and by the way... thank you for your not-so-helpful comments... i hope other newbies will think twice b4 posting anything in the "newbies corner"... as for the rest it would be good to read this thread:
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1091136


    regards,
    wacky

  12. #32

    Default

    Cmon people, sometimes in life we simply just need to answer a, b, either a or b is ok, or just keep silent..

    I vote number one. Why? Dunno, set 1 looks better on my mobile phone. There. Hopefully it helps in your decision making.

    *Disclaimer: for better answer you might want to disclose what cameras you are currently comparing, because image result etc are rather subjective and will grow as you gain more experience n skill. But camera spec stay the same.

  13. #33

    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Yes... I understand that the photo are not well taken. The thing is... it is the same amount of skills because it is coming from the same person at the same time when he took the photo. And so I say, assuming everything is the same.

    If it was two different photographers each using one camera and shooting at a scene, then we can say that the conclusion is not too conclusive. However, coming from the same guy, then it is more or less the same. If it was two different photographers using two different camera, then it would be pretty obvious that things are going to be different and the conclusion might not help TS alot.

    If the two cameras that are used to take the photo of a scene but these are from different day (one day it is raining, the other day it is sunny) then the conclusion will not mean anything.

    That is why I say, assuming everything is the same.

    Anyway, I have presented my case and I have done the survey as asked. I am not going any deeper into the discussion. TS had seen what I have written, and if that help him come to a conclusion, fine. If not, he will have to do more to come to the conclusion.
    thanks for helping to explain... your comments are certainly very useful to me...! i know i don't have such a keen eye for fine details... so i couldn't differentiate alot of differences between the photos... but now i know that actually quite a few ppl can tell the difference so i think i know which camera system i would keep...


    regards,
    wacky

  14. #34
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: [Vote] Compare images from 2 cameras

    this discussion is not going anywhere.

    I suggest you can revisit this thread maybe 3 or 4 years later, you might have a good laugh of yourself if you have any progress on your photography, or become more mature.






    this thread closed.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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