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Thread: CPF Minimum Sum

  1. #41

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    Let's not fool ourselves.

    This is singapore, everything has to be paid for if you live here. Water, electricity, waste disposal, food. You can't grow anything in your backyard, if you do have a backyard, you don't need your CPF.

    The basics will take a few hundred a month. Move beyond getting 3 meals n your home, more money is needed.

    How long do you think half a million is going to last? 3 car lifetimes n it'll eat up the entire sum.

    CPF paying 2.5%, makes no difference even if it's 8%, your principal sum is too small for it to matter. How much money will you have leftover after buying your home? A large number of people in the US and Australia rent. That is an option, but, it's not free either.

    Can you get better than 2.5%? 3% of the population are able is a nice optimistic figure, the rest will end up with less than they started.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    In the 80's one can earn interests of between 4 - 10% easily, so the CPF rates are correspondingly higher. The charts cannot be seen in isolation but against the economic situations then. In 1987 when rates & prices were at their peak, one of the world's worst economic crisis hit, what we remember as Black Monday http://www.thebubblebubble.com/1987-crash/. That's why interest rates dived, plunged to rock bottom & never fully recovered as another 10 years later in 1997, another bubble which developed burst, not forgetting the Dot-com bubble & collapse of Barings Bank earlier.

    Look at the banks current FD (not SA) rates 0.05% per annum, not even one or half a percent!. I put $100K in the bank for a year, what I got was >$ 4 per month !!! Against this, how does the CPF rates look, can we do better? Why the rates are so very very low & is it good or bad, go ask the economic gurus...
    How can you compare apples with oranges. To be fair, you should also check out the interest rates or yield for other pension fund schemes and retirement saving plans during the same period of time for a better gauge on our standing.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 5th June 2014 at 11:20 PM.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Sighhhhh... no wonder that guy could get away with his crap theories . Just increase pay lah just increase rates lah, like this have no relevance, bearing & implications whatsoever to economics, like demanding his father to increase his allowance! Where the money is coming from, who finally foot the bill? Heck if the rate is 6-14%, heck, who cares about withdrawing from CPF? I people would borrow from the bank, dump assets & put the money in CPF fund! Or maybe the Govt can order the banks to increase the interest rate by command! Then people complain of higher mortgage rates, businesses complain of high cost of funds, of capital et al...

    Compare,? Compare to our neighbours, do we have like unlimited land, forestry, minerals, oil etc, We just got a piece of flat land the size of postage stamp. Compare the property prices, what we get for a pigeon hole as compared to la semi-D elsewhere? Why, we just love high prices low interest rate? So many things to compare. We cant set prices & rates as we please.

    Ever wonder where all our billions & billions of reserves come from, they drop from the skies? How do we think we can get the money to build a $4 billion short stretch of road, buy those latest fanciest fighter jets, tanks & aircrafts, built the gardens by the bay etc. Start the questions there. Also, how much our HDB flats actual costs too. You get the answers to these you get the answers to the rest, how S'pore works. Its not called Singapore Inc for nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    How can you compare apples with oranges. To be fair, you should also check out the interest rates or yield for other pension fund schemes and retirement saving plans during the same period of time for a better gauge on our standing.
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 6th June 2014 at 01:13 AM.

  4. #44
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    Sighhhhh... no wonder that guy could get away with his crap theories . Just increase pay lah just increase rates lah, like this have no relevance, bearing & implications whatsoever to economics, like demanding his father to increase his allowance! Where the money is coming from, who is finally footing the bill? Heck if the rate is 6-14%, heck, who cares about withdrawing from CPF? I people would borrow from the bank, dump assets & put the money in CPF fund! Or maybe the Govt can order the banks to increase the interest rate by command!

    Compare,? Compare to our neighbours, do we have like unlimited land, forestry, minerals, oil etc, We just got a flat piece of land the size of postage stamp. Compare the property prices, what we get for a pigeon hole as compared to la semi-D elsewhere? Why, we just love high prices low interest rate? So many things to compare. We cant set prices & rate as we please.
    Now, Now that is not a very convincing piece of argument. You are getting irrational and throwing out all the red herrings and strawman.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Its ok, if you don't understand what I am driving at, or what I am talking about...

    Hmmmm, maybe one day I too free & got nothing to do (like when I retire), I may go down to my local bank & ask them

    1. Hey why are you paying me only 0.05%pa interests for my fixed deposits? Last time in the 80's you gave me 6%. Btw why are you charging 24++% when I use your money via your credit cards? That's $ 24,000++ (close to $ 28,000 in reality) you charge compared to $ 50 you pay pa for $100K! I know many S'porean love credit cards but that's daylight robbery man, worst than loan sharks! How about ready/instant credit too, 18% or $18,000 pa! My mortgage loan rates must be higher too but I cant recall, got to go check first.

    2. Why other countries are like paying higher rates, esp when we are a highly developed country who is No 1 in so many things & you claim to be the best bank around? I read even countries like Nigeria, Uganda, Mongolia, Iran, even Turkey offer like between 7-14% now. Seriously, are you heading towards negative interest, when I have to pay you for depositing cash with you instead of you paying me, like Japan last time?

    Are you trying to cheat me??? Please explain or else...

    And

    3. I understand you make money from MY money, how can you do that? How much you earn from MY money & how much are you paying me from that?

    I believe I got 1 or 2 charts at home that explain everything! Don't try to bluff me. I complain to PAPA, to the Garmen! Or even file a Police report.




    P.S. You can answer all these questions & explain everything to me???
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 7th June 2014 at 12:51 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by qystan View Post
    Let's not fool ourselves.

    This is singapore, everything has to be paid for if you live here. Water, electricity, waste disposal, food. You can't grow anything in your backyard, if you do have a backyard, you don't need your CPF.

    The basics will take a few hundred a month. Move beyond getting 3 meals n your home, more money is needed.

    How long do you think half a million is going to last? 3 car lifetimes n it'll eat up the entire sum.
    I can understand you want to argue logically and sincerely against the motion but would you not want to think a little deeper and clearer to compare to something more realistic and true life?

    3 car life time as the next logical expenditure example "beyond" taking care of food on the table???? You have any idea how many car owners are there in Singapore to justify that leap of belief example and how many would be buying or driving a car in their older age group if they EVER could afford it? I can appreciate your passion to argue the motion but let's get a little real with the way you would rationalize the so called typical Singapore citizen's life style and spending pattern as we age. You need to lend credibility to support your argue thus your example for argument sake must be more true to life to make your case.

    I have way more then half a million in my CPF but ,,,, let's use your half a million for the sake of argument, with my present life now at 52 and looking towards when I am 65 yrs with an even less activity life, diabetic, less hectic managerial job and being a totally NON CAR BUYING PERSON, my 4 room is fully paid up by my dad, I don't change phone,my beloved PC, bicycle (18 yrs classic) ..etc every year, thus I can make that half million last me quite a long while. In fact if I challenge you to live on an amount I live on for more then 6 yrs due to placing the wrong trust on people(& exg/fs) with money matters ( you can see why I have trust issue with people after that ) You will jump off the building or kill those people to get your money back for making you live that way. You read recently about how two Poly boys were in the news for being able to live on $500 per month. I lived on even lower then that for 6 yrs over ending in 2009 and rebuilding my money bank.

    So if I were to make a better argument for or against the motion, I would not even use 'me' as the yard stick, I would use someone lower in wage earning, throw in realistic problems or activities I think she/he/family would do...etc thus with then I feel I can convey something more logical and sound thus not give out bad vibes that I am covering something or as some would say a political stooge.

    You do that with weird comparison, you are then seen as being political to whoever's cause... for or against. I am not for or against Roy or our PM... but I am for a clearly picture of what is being done with our citizen's money, a clearer road map of how it's being invested, by who, what are the expectation of those companies using our funds, their accountability, who signs off on them, vet their risk factor ...etc. All that kind of questions financial institution have to be prepare to put out.

    I am certain if you are an investor who is about to invest a few hundred thousands or million(s) with a financial institution (say the half million figure you throw up), there will be tons of questions you will ask before, during and after you hand them your money. And for as long as you have your money with them you are going to hound them for progress report it their performance to say the least.

    Let's NOT even talk about taking the money out lah. Let just say, I simply want proper accountability and financial details to chew on about my money and how hard or not it is working.

    What is considered "too small for you to matter" might not be for someone else. So sensitivity goes a long way to win the hearts and mind of folks to your cause.
    Last edited by sammy888; 6th June 2014 at 02:08 AM.

  7. #47

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    You have more than half a mil, good for you but half a million is something many if not most Singaporeans do not have. Look around you, neighbors, friends, colleagues, the people around you in the restaurants, canteen, coffeeshops; who's likely to have the min sum and extrapolate to the population ratio.

    Using the car as an example is to provide a perspective which most can relate to as almost if not the majority know what it costs to buy car than something real but takes imagination to figure out. It's like saying a million light years away, we so call know what it is but few really know what it means.

  8. #48

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Who says that everybody thinks that CPF and its schemes are not good?

    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/pm-lee--ch...080711607.html

  9. #49

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    You need a politician to run a government not a CEO.

    Look at successive US presidents for example. Only in crisis they will throw up the best candidates. In other times they just muddle through with mediocre.

    We are lucky in Singapore because the best of the best brains are in the government or wanting to get into the government. Just look at the best in your class where are they now? They are either in the government or in a western country not coming home.

    They grow up in Singapore. Singapore provides them with all the opportunity to grow. However if they choose to go West, we can't stop them. Just hope that one day when they are successful and if they are, they should come back and contribute.

    U dont have to be in the government to contribute!

  10. #50

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    We are fortunate that we are not a welfare state. Else we will not be what we are today.

    If there is no control, many apek will be having fun in ... an come back without a single cent.

    I had a friend, after collecting the CPF, he bought a car and now struggling to repay the loan.

    By having the minimum sum, we are force to keep the money and use it during the raining days!

  11. #51

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    To them, the CPF is their money, not yours.
    Either you buy a flat and let them transfer it from left pocket to right pocket.
    Or they lock a large chunk of it inside for their reserve.
    To spend the million dollars within a year if you manage yourself!

  12. #52

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    We are fortunate that we are not a welfare state. Else we will not be what we are today.

    If there is no control, many apek will be having fun in ... an come back without a single cent.

    I had a friend, after collecting the CPF, he bought a car and now struggling to repay the loan.

    By having the minimum sum, we are force to keep the money and use it during the raining days!
    Absolutely agree! CPF is the best thing to happen to us!
    Especially for all you horny stinkies (estimated to be >80% of you) who squander it in Batam!
    Employee contribution should increase to 50%!
    To maintain competitiveness of our nation, employer contribution should cut to 5%!

    And allow CPF to be used for mio World Cup package!

  13. #53

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    We do have supporters for CPF schemes. That's explain why the government is confident in implementing its policies. As long as it benefit the majority, they will do it.

    There is no perfect policy. You cannot please everyone. Those who are worst off or fall through the safety net because of a policy will require assistant from the government. This is also what the government is trying to do.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by alamak View Post
    "enough" how do you define it?? Some people can live on $2 a day, some give them hundred also not enough
    $0 a day can also be enough is you can sustain with drinking free water out of a public tap.

  15. #55

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    To spend the million dollars within a year if you manage yourself!
    You are just making the assumption that everyone are stupid and don't know how to manage their money
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  16. #56
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Absolutely agree! CPF is the best thing to happen to us!
    Especially for all you horny stinkies (estimated to be >80% of you) who squander it in Batam!
    Employee contribution should increase to 50%!
    To maintain competitiveness of our nation, employer contribution should cut to 5%!

    And allow CPF to be used for mio World Cup package!
    I really only agree with the last suggestion

  17. #57
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    You are just making the assumption that everyone are stupid and don't know how to manage their money
    http://therealsingapore.com/content/...-her-cpf-money

    Imagining that in about 20+ yeas that could be me.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    We do have supporters for CPF schemes. That's explain why the government is confident in implementing its policies. As long as it benefit the majority, they will do it.

    There is no perfect policy. You cannot please everyone. Those who are worst off or fall through the safety net because of a policy will require assistant from the government. This is also what the government is trying to do.
    There is always 2 camps supporting their beliefs.

    I also agreed that there is no perfect policy/ system. Withdrawing one lump sum is also not perfect.

    There are ppl who can manage, there are ppl who cant.

    Maybe garmen can have a counter for those who feel they can better use their monies and submit application to withdraw one lump sum. Put up proposal for the garmen to look at it and approve. If approve, then can withdraw.

    Make the process difficult, so for those who really can manage/invest, will see thru the process.

    For those gg oversea/holiday, can apply for a certain amt and use it as credits to apply from tour agency.
    Last edited by leeteckseng; 15th June 2014 at 11:56 AM.

  19. #59

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    There are ppl who can manage, there are ppl who cant.

    Truth is the majority can't, the rest only think they can. The statistics of how many successful investors will tell you. Let's also not forget that your invested capital are not protected, you can lose everything.

    Let's face it, people with CPF, myself included, are mostly employees. There are reasons why we are employees and not the employers, it also tells you the real investment and business savvy people are not affected by this.

    I doubt the investment savvy people have issues with the minimum sum, they're probably too busy making more than that than wasting time over $150K and probably do not have any CPF at all.


    Maybe garmen can have a counter for those who feel they can better use their monies and submit application to withdraw one lump sum. Put up proposal for the garmen to look at it and approve. If approve, then can withdraw.

    Put up proposal, withdraw money, go to Batam for a spin and come back crying.


    Make the process difficult, so for those who really can manage/invest, will see thru the process.

    You'll get people crying foul and soon there'll be agencies providing services to circumvent.


    For those gg oversea/holiday, can apply for a certain amt and use it as credits to apply from tour agency.[/QUOTE]

    Seriously? Should someone who doesn't even have the minimum sum be thinking about using what's left for an overseas holiday?

  20. #60

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    http://therealsingapore.com/content/...-her-cpf-money

    Imagining that in about 20+ yeas that could be me.
    i saw this on facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/Fabrication...type=1&theater



    it might be one of those pappy IB guys posting it.. BUT if you're stupid to believe TRS, you ought to be stupid enough to believe that pappy IB guy as well

    not everything is as what it seems, and obviously these people have an agenda to pursue.

    you can believe what you want, but in the end, don't become a fool that just believes one side of the story
    Last edited by kei1309; 16th June 2014 at 02:46 AM.

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