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Thread: CPF Minimum Sum

  1. #201
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic360 View Post
    I think because of some unwise people, G need to lock up your money for your own good.
    That's just part of it. In order to make a lifelong pension scheme via the insurance model (I.e., CPF Life) possible at all, everyone must be forced to participate. Otherwise, the premium will be very high that those who can afford it won't participate and those who need it the most won't have the means to participate.

  2. #202

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Well said.

    Unfortunately, sometimes, it's not just about trying to stay healthy. Try as one might, a threatening illness could still come up seemingly from nowhere. It is this sort of situation that people are afraid of. Yes, there's insurance. But how much? It can be depleted depending on severity of illness. And frankly, it's always easy to say on hindsight that one should buy as much insurance as possible. But insurance also can be a liability if not planned carefully.

    That's when I feel countries with an aging population but whose governments takes care of their citizens lead a more dignified life. I've been to several overseas medical institutions and have friends working there. You can see the difference what is meant by "first world" service and dignified living. Patients there are more relaxed, they can wait at their doctor's office patiently, have more time to consult with their doctors, and even when they are suffering from terminal illnesses, they don't feel as stressed or worried as Singaporean patients. That's because these overseas patients have their medical bills taken care of by their governments.

    Contrast that to Singapore, unless one is financially rich, I've seen too many patients delay their treatment because of lack of cash. Government hospital doctors are usually underpaid and have to work long hours. Seeing patients is like working in a production line. Patients' families are sometimes frustrated when they have to take leave from work to accompany their parents to see a doctor but got to wait for more than an hour because their leave is wasted or that they have to rush back to work in the afternoon.

    So although citizens in other countries have to pay a lot more taxes than us, when a health disaster strikes, they know they are taken care of and still lead a dignified life.

    Some health care workers here are also stressed up that they need to serve so many patients. If you all think it is only a one off incident that the elderly patient in a nursing home was "thrown around" by their staff, think again. There are many such unreported incidents from my own working experience, even in a fairly well-known nursing home. No choice. Lack of staff to do this labour intensive job, so got to get foreigners. They are not terribly well paid and have to serve too many patients.

    Then for the poorer patients, they worry about not being able to afford the expensive medical expenses. The government here may say they will subsidize this and that, especially for the pioneer generation. That's good. But they are not dealing head on with other issues.

    Think about it. Why are HDB flats now so expensive? Why is there a lack of hospital beds to the extent that patients got to wait in queue for a bed and even if they have one, they lie in some makeshift tent. Is that a dignified way to be treated as a citizen who needs medical treatment?

    Why are the MRT trains so crowded especially during peak periods that we have to miss 2 or 3 trains everyday cos we can't get into them?

    All these point to the fact that the Singapore government has brought in too many foreigners too soon and make them Singaporeans. The infrastructure is not well-prepared for it. Have you ever seen one whole "jing-gang" of foreigners (who are likely PR or already Singaporean) walk around with their kids and parents? When these foreigners come, you sometimes have to x2 for their kids to be raised here, or even x3 or x4 if they bring in their parents (either on social pass visit or even made Singaporeans themselves!) I have waited for more than hour in clinics before and I observed that many patients are foreign-looking.

    No, Singaporeans are generally not xenophobic. But if the government does not plan well to cope with the changing social landscape, it is not surprising why there are so many unhappy people here.

    In case the government supporters here are going to say: "If you don't like Singapore, you can pack up and leave", I'd reply that by saying, Hold it! We are Singaporeans and we deserve to air our views. Like some said it b4 here, Singapore does not equal or belong to the ruling government.

    Too many times, I have heard ministers and the PM say, Come! We are listening to you. Give suggestions on how we can make Singapore better. Yet, when so many Singaporeans air their views, have their voices been heard by the government? NO!

    We sometimes have open forums and discussions which have pre-selected participants and audiences. Everything looks so wholesome. But the problems and suggestions Singaporeans are trying to raise for the longest time have never been dealt with directly by these politicians. How can you blame us when we say all these dialogue sessions by the government with the people are all "wayang"?

    I know the government is constantly trying to make more money for the country. Boost our economy, that's what we always hear. But are the common citizens enjoying the rewards of all the hard work? I don't think so. It's the rich getting richer.

    In the light of the CPF issue, the government says the minimum sum is for us to tide over for our retirement. Ok fine. I think many sensible people can accept that. But that's not the main issue. The government THINKS all of us want to abolish the CPF or the minimum sum. Not really. If the ministers and PM are saying the minimum sum has to increase every year to cope with inflation, then let me ask them point blank in the face: Are our salaries necessarily increasing to cope with inflation also?

    There are people close to me, and they are Singaporeans. They take on jobs that pay them $x amount which was the same as some 10 years ago. So how are we to survive? And whoever said that Singaporeans don't take on jobs which are lowly paid for long working hours? Don't be misled by everything they say!!!

    So what we are asking now is: Can the Singapore government at least study to see if they can give us better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with the rising costs? Can they also introduce more flexibility on how our money can be withdrawn? Can they also be more transparent with how our money is being invested?

    For many many years, we have been suppressed and not obtained answers to these important questions. And I doubt we will have them anytime soon.



    Quote Originally Posted by NineEleven View Post
    Ladies & gentlemen, ultimately, we're discussing about our retirement, this is what the CPF is set up for. The government does not and will not look after us so it's a forced saving.

    There's nothing much we can do about it unless we vote them out & put someone more resourceful in taking care of the citizens. Do you think it's possible in the near future? Not likely because even with a new government, they need at least two terms to overhaul or fine tune to see results.

    Meanwhile, instead of banging & shouting. I suggest that we look into taking care of ourselves while you're able & healthy. I don't sell insurance or MLM products but please spend some spare time to study how to enrich yourself & accumulate assets so that you can have a more comfortable old age.

    The lifestyle depends largely on your expectations, requirements & of course the cost in the place of settlement so it may not be in Singapore. It could be in a 3rd world country or perhaps a metropolis. US$1K a month may be enough for some while others require ten times more but it's a choice & be realistic. It's a future some distance away for some & very near for others. So instead of whining, why don't you take it by the horns and overcome the issue?

    Personally, I have not given much thoughts to my CPF as it's there only as a bonus. What happens if I'm ill, will the medisave be enough? Will my savings be enough? Recently, a friend told me that his brother just passed away after 2 years of fighting with cancer. For the last few months, it cost a staggering S$40K a month just on hospital bills. S$40,000.00. I didn't ask how much it cost in total since the brother passed away but it can't be less than 6 figures. I've also known a friend who sold his semi-D to nurse his sick father and still lost him but money did give them some extra time together.

    So, stay healthy & eat well.

    Trivia:
    Do you know that parents are by law required to take care of their step children as well even after divorce? And Vice Versa, because there are many abandoned old folks out there and the State has to take care of them especially when none of the children wants to or willing to. This is where the Maintenance of Parents Bill come in, it falls under MCYS and they are a powerful department. It is one of the few ministries that can make you declare all your assets, freeze your account with court order then dispose of your assets to assist in settlement of outstanding hospital bills. Even illegitimate children must bear responsibilities.

    That is another horrible way to burden our children so please beware of that. Good day.

  3. #203

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    So what we are asking now is: Can the Singapore government at least study to see if they can give us better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with the rising costs? Can they also introduce more flexibility on how our money can be withdrawn? Can they also be more transparent with how our money is being invested?
    Getting better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with rising costs by the time we retire is good but beware of the adverse repercussions under today's CPF rules for utlitising our own CPF funds for housing. When we buy a private or public apartment and use our CPF funds to pay the down payment and monthly loan instalments, we first pay interests to the bank or HDB for the housing loan on a monthly reducing basis. If we settle this through deductions from our CPF account, we are effectively taking a loan from CPF at 2.5% on a monthly increasing basis until we sell off the apartment (after which we have to return the accrued expenditure for housing back to our CPF account) or until we reach 55 yrs of age.

    From my own experience, the amount of money I owed the CPF from using it to pay for my apartment had ballooned to more than twice the cost of the apartment by the time I finished paying the 25 yrs loan. I can't imagine what would be the amount I had to pay back into my CPF account if the CPF OA interest rate had been increased from 2.5% to say 6.0%.

    At today's property prices, it may be difficult for many people not to resort to financing their housing loans through their own CPF accounts but they should go into it with their eye opened. Ideally, they should:
    (a) Hold the property until they are 55 yrs of age or older before selling it off if they want to keep all the sales proceeds
    (b) Be aware that a substantial chunk of the sales proceeds of their property may have to go back to their CPF accounts if they sell off their property before 55 yrs of age, so the property has better appreciated enough to cover this and more.

    Property and financial consultants feel free to chip and correct me if I'm wrong.
    Last edited by tomcat; 25th June 2014 at 10:09 AM.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Well said.

    Unfortunately, sometimes, it's not just about trying to stay healthy. Try as one might, a threatening illness could still come up seemingly from nowhere. It is this sort of situation that people are afraid of. Yes, there's insurance. But how much? It can be depleted depending on severity of illness. And frankly, it's always easy to say on hindsight that one should buy as much insurance as possible. But insurance also can be a liability if not planned carefully.

    That's when I feel countries with an aging population but whose governments takes care of their citizens lead a more dignified life. I've been to several overseas medical institutions and have friends working there. You can see the difference what is meant by "first world" service and dignified living. Patients there are more relaxed, they can wait at their doctor's office patiently, have more time to consult with their doctors, and even when they are suffering from terminal illnesses, they don't feel as stressed or worried as Singaporean patients. That's because these overseas patients have their medical bills taken care of by their governments.

    Contrast that to Singapore, unless one is financially rich, I've seen too many patients delay their treatment because of lack of cash. Government hospital doctors are usually underpaid and have to work long hours. Seeing patients is like working in a production line. Patients' families are sometimes frustrated when they have to take leave from work to accompany their parents to see a doctor but got to wait for more than an hour because their leave is wasted or that they have to rush back to work in the afternoon.

    So although citizens in other countries have to pay a lot more taxes than us, when a health disaster strikes, they know they are taken care of and still lead a dignified life.

    Some health care workers here are also stressed up that they need to serve so many patients. If you all think it is only a one off incident that the elderly patient in a nursing home was "thrown around" by their staff, think again. There are many such unreported incidents from my own working experience, even in a fairly well-known nursing home. No choice. Lack of staff to do this labour intensive job, so got to get foreigners. They are not terribly well paid and have to serve too many patients.

    Then for the poorer patients, they worry about not being able to afford the expensive medical expenses. The government here may say they will subsidize this and that, especially for the pioneer generation. That's good. But they are not dealing head on with other issues.

    Think about it. Why are HDB flats now so expensive? Why is there a lack of hospital beds to the extent that patients got to wait in queue for a bed and even if they have one, they lie in some makeshift tent. Is that a dignified way to be treated as a citizen who needs medical treatment?

    Why are the MRT trains so crowded especially during peak periods that we have to miss 2 or 3 trains everyday cos we can't get into them?

    All these point to the fact that the Singapore government has brought in too many foreigners too soon and make them Singaporeans. The infrastructure is not well-prepared for it. Have you ever seen one whole "jing-gang" of foreigners (who are likely PR or already Singaporean) walk around with their kids and parents? When these foreigners come, you sometimes have to x2 for their kids to be raised here, or even x3 or x4 if they bring in their parents (either on social pass visit or even made Singaporeans themselves!) I have waited for more than hour in clinics before and I observed that many patients are foreign-looking.

    No, Singaporeans are generally not xenophobic. But if the government does not plan well to cope with the changing social landscape, it is not surprising why there are so many unhappy people here.

    In case the government supporters here are going to say: "If you don't like Singapore, you can pack up and leave", I'd reply that by saying, Hold it! We are Singaporeans and we deserve to air our views. Like some said it b4 here, Singapore does not equal or belong to the ruling government.

    Too many times, I have heard ministers and the PM say, Come! We are listening to you. Give suggestions on how we can make Singapore better. Yet, when so many Singaporeans air their views, have their voices been heard by the government? NO!

    We sometimes have open forums and discussions which have pre-selected participants and audiences. Everything looks so wholesome. But the problems and suggestions Singaporeans are trying to raise for the longest time have never been dealt with directly by these politicians. How can you blame us when we say all these dialogue sessions by the government with the people are all "wayang"?

    I know the government is constantly trying to make more money for the country. Boost our economy, that's what we always hear. But are the common citizens enjoying the rewards of all the hard work? I don't think so. It's the rich getting richer.

    In the light of the CPF issue, the government says the minimum sum is for us to tide over for our retirement. Ok fine. I think many sensible people can accept that. But that's not the main issue. The government THINKS all of us want to abolish the CPF or the minimum sum. Not really. If the ministers and PM are saying the minimum sum has to increase every year to cope with inflation, then let me ask them point blank in the face: Are our salaries necessarily increasing to cope with inflation also?

    There are people close to me, and they are Singaporeans. They take on jobs that pay them $x amount which was the same as some 10 years ago. So how are we to survive? And whoever said that Singaporeans don't take on jobs which are lowly paid for long working hours? Don't be misled by everything they say!!!

    So what we are asking now is: Can the Singapore government at least study to see if they can give us better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with the rising costs? Can they also introduce more flexibility on how our money can be withdrawn? Can they also be more transparent with how our money is being invested?

    For many many years, we have been suppressed and not obtained answers to these important questions. And I doubt we will have them anytime soon.
    Well said.

    The govt should do more to be flexible to the CPF system. And this is one of the suppressed aspect of our SG life.

    Most of the govt ppl are just achieving KPIs on paper.

  5. #205
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Well said.




    There are people close to me, and they are Singaporeans. They take on jobs that pay them $x amount which was the same as some 10 years ago. So how are we to survive? And whoever said that Singaporeans don't take on jobs which are lowly paid for long working hours? Don't be misled by everything they say!!!.
    I knew one old Singaporean lady working as cleaner at our office. She used to get about 1000 a month. Cleaning services are outsourced in our organization. Every subsequent contract, contractors want to secure the job by lowering the cost. So she needs to take pay cut and when her pay was cut down to around 850 she left the job.

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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Well said.

    Unfortunately, sometimes, it's not just about trying to stay healthy. Try as one might, a threatening illness could still come up seemingly from nowhere. It is this sort of situation that people are afraid of. Yes, there's insurance. But how much? It can be depleted depending on severity of illness. And frankly, it's always easy to say on hindsight that one should buy as much insurance as possible. But insurance also can be a liability if not planned carefully.

    That's when I feel countries with an aging population but whose governments takes care of their citizens lead a more dignified life. I've been to several overseas medical institutions and have friends working there. You can see the difference what is meant by "first world" service and dignified living. Patients there are more relaxed, they can wait at their doctor's office patiently, have more time to consult with their doctors, and even when they are suffering from terminal illnesses, they don't feel as stressed or worried as Singaporean patients. That's because these overseas patients have their medical bills taken care of by their governments.

    Contrast that to Singapore, unless one is financially rich, I've seen too many patients delay their treatment because of lack of cash. Government hospital doctors are usually underpaid and have to work long hours. Seeing patients is like working in a production line. Patients' families are sometimes frustrated when they have to take leave from work to accompany their parents to see a doctor but got to wait for more than an hour because their leave is wasted or that they have to rush back to work in the afternoon.

    So although citizens in other countries have to pay a lot more taxes than us, when a health disaster strikes, they know they are taken care of and still lead a dignified life.

    Some health care workers here are also stressed up that they need to serve so many patients. If you all think it is only a one off incident that the elderly patient in a nursing home was "thrown around" by their staff, think again. There are many such unreported incidents from my own working experience, even in a fairly well-known nursing home. No choice. Lack of staff to do this labour intensive job, so got to get foreigners. They are not terribly well paid and have to serve too many patients.

    Then for the poorer patients, they worry about not being able to afford the expensive medical expenses. The government here may say they will subsidize this and that, especially for the pioneer generation. That's good. But they are not dealing head on with other issues.

    Think about it. Why are HDB flats now so expensive? Why is there a lack of hospital beds to the extent that patients got to wait in queue for a bed and even if they have one, they lie in some makeshift tent. Is that a dignified way to be treated as a citizen who needs medical treatment?

    Why are the MRT trains so crowded especially during peak periods that we have to miss 2 or 3 trains everyday cos we can't get into them?

    All these point to the fact that the Singapore government has brought in too many foreigners too soon and make them Singaporeans. The infrastructure is not well-prepared for it. Have you ever seen one whole "jing-gang" of foreigners (who are likely PR or already Singaporean) walk around with their kids and parents? When these foreigners come, you sometimes have to x2 for their kids to be raised here, or even x3 or x4 if they bring in their parents (either on social pass visit or even made Singaporeans themselves!) I have waited for more than hour in clinics before and I observed that many patients are foreign-looking.

    No, Singaporeans are generally not xenophobic. But if the government does not plan well to cope with the changing social landscape, it is not surprising why there are so many unhappy people here.

    In case the government supporters here are going to say: "If you don't like Singapore, you can pack up and leave", I'd reply that by saying, Hold it! We are Singaporeans and we deserve to air our views. Like some said it b4 here, Singapore does not equal or belong to the ruling government.

    Too many times, I have heard ministers and the PM say, Come! We are listening to you. Give suggestions on how we can make Singapore better. Yet, when so many Singaporeans air their views, have their voices been heard by the government? NO!

    We sometimes have open forums and discussions which have pre-selected participants and audiences. Everything looks so wholesome. But the problems and suggestions Singaporeans are trying to raise for the longest time have never been dealt with directly by these politicians. How can you blame us when we say all these dialogue sessions by the government with the people are all "wayang"?

    I know the government is constantly trying to make more money for the country. Boost our economy, that's what we always hear. But are the common citizens enjoying the rewards of all the hard work? I don't think so. It's the rich getting richer.

    In the light of the CPF issue, the government says the minimum sum is for us to tide over for our retirement. Ok fine. I think many sensible people can accept that. But that's not the main issue. The government THINKS all of us want to abolish the CPF or the minimum sum. Not really. If the ministers and PM are saying the minimum sum has to increase every year to cope with inflation, then let me ask them point blank in the face: Are our salaries necessarily increasing to cope with inflation also?

    There are people close to me, and they are Singaporeans. They take on jobs that pay them $x amount which was the same as some 10 years ago. So how are we to survive? And whoever said that Singaporeans don't take on jobs which are lowly paid for long working hours? Don't be misled by everything they say!!!

    So what we are asking now is: Can the Singapore government at least study to see if they can give us better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with the rising costs? Can they also introduce more flexibility on how our money can be withdrawn? Can they also be more transparent with how our money is being invested?

    For many many years, we have been suppressed and not obtained answers to these important questions. And I doubt we will have them anytime soon.
    You have touched on the issues that are so close to heart of the average Singaporean. Issues that we do not get to see or hear of National media and if I may add..... issues that our government have cirmvenvented for a long long time. You could do us and LHL a favour by transposing what you have scripted here onto the latter's Fb page. We are sick of reading those rosy and flowery stuff there, it's about time he got to know what we really think of the way he runs the country.

    We don't want a bunch of actors to participate and wayang in a National debate, we need only one true-blue Singaporean and that's You!
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  7. #207
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Well said.

    Unfortunately, sometimes, it's not just about trying to stay healthy. Try as one might, a threatening illness could still come up seemingly from nowhere. It is this sort of situation that people are afraid of. Yes, there's insurance. But how much? It can be depleted depending on severity of illness. And frankly, it's always easy to say on hindsight that one should buy as much insurance as
    possible. But insurance also can be a liability if not planned carefully.

    (deleted to reduce clutter of quoted message)

    Can the Singapore government at least study to see if they can give us better interest rates on our CPF money to cope with the rising costs? Can they also introduce more flexibility on how our money can be withdrawn? Can they also be more transparent with how our money is being invested?

    For many many years, we have been suppressed and not obtained answers to these important questions. And I doubt we will have them anytime soon.
    Many good points. But I think for most of the commotion that is going on in the news over this Roy versus PM scene, the heart of the matter is not that we want to take our CPF out but that maybe the ultimate solution most citizen will demand when answers and action are not forthcoming BUT the usual suspect here and other detractors are only focus on playing up that poker card. " We are trying to abolish CPF and want our money back " That seem to be the only game in town they want to focus on without treading on the real reasons for this struggle to be heard and taken serious about the problems the citizens are facing.

    Clearly there are needs for not just frank dialogue and actions to tweak the various public programmes but so long as all the long outstanding questions are not answered/reveal in it's entirely, nothing will ever be done as one can not do one part without revealing the other and the citizens are not willing to just take it at face value AGAIN and just carry on.

    http://likedatosocanmeh.wordpress.co...n-cpf-and-gic/
    Last edited by sammy888; 25th June 2014 at 01:06 PM.

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    But then sometime we can say so much or put suggestions across, will the garmen really listen and act on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeteckseng View Post
    But then sometime we can say so much or put suggestions across, will the garmen really listen and act on it?
    The best brains in Singapore are already in government and the civil service. Not to mention the overseas experts and consultants used. Plus they have access to stats that mortal beings won't have. So whatever the layperson suggests most probably has been considered and dismissed. It's just down to packaging and convincing.

  10. #210

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    The best brains in Singapore are already in government and the civil service.

  11. #211
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    There you have it. You heard it here first. We have undeniable proof declared here (at face value) that all it well and we should go back to work and stop all this tomfoolery. It's all in our head. Win lor. heheh
    Last edited by sammy888; 25th June 2014 at 10:58 PM.

  12. #212

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Since we are on garmen service, let me share with you all one funny story.

    Long long time ago i was working as a maintenance crew in one of the garmen buildings. There was this schorer, just graduated, wide-eyed and eager to prove his worth. Since he was schorer, he got to have lunch with some of the big shots quite often. Before any of those lunches, he would come around and ask if there is anything we want to feedback, he can take the opportunity to feedback to his big shots.

    Frankly i suspect he just wanted to gather content so he wouldn't appear stupid in front of the big shot.

    But anyway one day i told him, the garmen FT policy is wrong. I asked him to show, through economic theory or published studies, or through any mechanism he could think of, how large number of FTs will bring about better lives for us all.

    He couldn't. All he could do was keep insisting FTs will bring us a bright future, for the future generation, for his kids, etc etc, basically the useless drivel that is now the population white paper.

    After that, he became an even more vehement proponent of FT policy. Everyday he went around telling the bosses how MNCs will only set up here if they can have enough manpower here, so we need vast number of FTs.

    He then went away for awhile to do his masters.

    Then he came back to a different world. The garmen woke up and realized they screwed up big time. The smes are addicted to cheap FTs and clamouring for more. Smes are technologically weak. Productivity is negative. For the past decade GDP growth is mostly due to a bloated workforce. Housing prices are sky-high and in a bubble. The infrastructure couldn't handle it.

    So the garmen decided to start a big movement on productivity. Some of the different garment agencies were told to come up with ideas to boost productivity. Some of the agencies set up small task forces because in garmen sector task force is the universal solution to everything.

    This schorer was put in charge of one of the task force. That was about the time i left the co., so that was the last i heard of him. But former colleagues say he is now a vehement proponent of very careful FT policy.

    So the guy who was at least party responsible for the mess is now rewarded with the job of fixing it. Great for his portfolio. Next big step to promotion.

    Interesting true CSB right? Behold, the irony of life.

    <insert boo-hoo-there-is-no-groupthink gif here>

  13. #213
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    Great points raised
    Last edited by ed9119; 27th June 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    To them, the CPF is their money, not yours.
    Either you buy a flat and let them transfer it from left pocket to right pocket.
    Or they lock a large chunk of it inside for their reserve.
    To those who kpkb about the CPF, Tharman already explained in parliament about the assurance of our money.

    Don't complain anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    To those who kpkb about the CPF, Tharman already explained in parliament about the assurance of our money.

    Don't complain anymore

    Who is Tharman ? You believe him but why should we believe what he says? Where is the assurance? The only assurance I am seeing now is rising costs and diminishing returns.

    We like to kpkb to pass time.....
    Last edited by Zenten; 11th July 2014 at 01:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post

    Who is Tharman ? You believe him but why should we believe what he says? We like to kpkb to pass time.....
    Kpkb just to pass time?

  17. #217

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Kpkb just to pass time?
    Which of these 5 words you do not understand? This is ClubSnap's Kopitiam after all. We all come here once in a while to post and rant to pass some time away from our true interest which is photography.
    Last edited by tomcat; 11th July 2014 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Kpkb just to pass time?
    ...... and tcss too...... like the garmen.
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
    Not exactly 100% Natural but definitely the closest you can get to it

  19. #219

    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    ...... and tcss too...... like the garmen.
    What is 'tcss' ha ?

  20. #220
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPF Minimum Sum

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    Who is Tharman ? You believe him but why should we believe what he says? Where is the assurance? The only assurance I am seeing now is rising costs and diminishing returns.

    We like to kpkb to pass time.....
    Yup but there are other who like to put their head in the sand like a good ostrich should and think happy thoughts regardless of truth, misleading information or false ones be it from anyone they come to know. Especially when we all "SHOULD" know that all politicians are never ever known to bend the truth from the people.
    Last edited by sammy888; 12th July 2014 at 09:23 AM.

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