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Thread: Footdrill.. Help?

  1. #21
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reno77
    Were the British giving commands in Malay also when they were here ?
    obviously not.. durh~~

  2. #22
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    I totally agree, no idea why we are still stuck in the old days. Such is the bureaucratic inertia of the system.

    Please dun agree blindly when you admitted that you have 'no idea' why?

    We are using Malay because;

    Malay is the National language, together with Mandarin and Tamil. But during the days gone by, Malay is the only language for communication between the races. It is relatively easier to learn the Malay Language than the Tamil or Chinese language. Notice how many of the older generations speak fluent malay?

    When the British were here, the volunteers are almost entirely made up of Malays. Almost no Chinese wants to be a soldier. This is because of the age old chinese thinking that "good boys dun become soldiers". Why Indians dun serve I'm not so sure. So what would be the best language to use for an army mostly made up of Malays? Malay of cos.

    Subsequently, when we gained independence, many of the malay volunteers were absorbed to form the backbone of the newborn SAF. And that was why Malay was still used.

    So why are we still using Malay in this Day and age? Tradition. We need to have something linking us back to our past, and what is better than Drill commands? Drills are a way for soldiers to build up discipline and team spirit. Drills are also a tradition by itself. To change the language of command is to dilute it even further than it already is.

    And it requires discipline to learn the various commands in an unfamiliar language.


    So, vince123123, please try not to use this thread as a veiled attack on the
    bureaucracy.
    Last edited by AngKuGuay; 11th July 2005 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    Please dun agree blindly when you admitted that you have 'no idea' why?

    We are using Malay because;

    Malay is the National language, together with Mandarin and Tamil. But during the days gone by, Malay is the only language for communication between the races. It is relatively easier to learn the Malay Language than the Tamil or Chinese language. Notice how many of the older generations speak fluent malay?

    When the British were here, the volunteers are almost entirely made up of Malays. Almost no Chinese wants to be a soldier. This is because of the age old chinese thinking that "good boys dun become soldiers". Why Indians dun serve I'm not so sure. So what would be the best language to use for an army mostly made up of Malays? Malay of cos.

    Subsequently, when we gained independence, many of the malay volunteers were absorbed to form the backbone of the newborn SAF. And that was why Malay was still used.

    So why are we still using Malay in this Day and age? Tradition. We need to have something linking us back to our past, and what is better than Drill commands? Drills are a way for soldiers to build up discipline and team spirit. Drills are also a tradition by itself. To change the language of command is to dilute it even further than it already is.

    And it requires discipline to learn the various commands in an unfamiliar language.


    So, vince123123, please try not to use this thread as a veiled attack on the
    bureaucracy.
    Good history lesson.

  4. #24
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    Charlie: dun play play with the lau jiao man!

    glennyong: SWO Jeffrey = SWO Jeff Chung? Used to be 3DIV RSM? :mad: you must be nuts to like him.. he's gonna charge you!
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  5. #25
    vince123123
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    I beg to differ. Granted that there may have been a valid reason historically for using Malay to give commands, I doubt the assertion that it "links us back to our past". I certainly did not feel any linking back to the past, nor a building up of tradition or like concepts. All I experienced was an inherent frustration and not being able to understand what I was doing.

    Also, I doubt that discipline or the "past" is dependent upon the language of execution of the drills. Further, I doubt that using an unfamiliar language boosts disciipline - why not use Swahilli or something?

    Perhaps the concepts work for you, and in which case, your rationale and justification should reflect that personal opinion, instead of the way it is currently crafted, as an objective factual statement of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    So why are we still using Malay in this Day and age? Tradition. We need to have something linking us back to our past, and what is better than Drill commands? Drills are a way for soldiers to build up discipline and team spirit. Drills are also a tradition by itself. To change the language of command is to dilute it even further than it already is.

    And it requires discipline to learn the various commands in an unfamiliar language.


    So, vince123123, please try not to use this thread as a veiled attack on the
    bureaucracy.

  6. #26
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer_400

    marching commands

    turn right - kekanan buseng (given on which leg? right?)
    turn left - kekiri buseng (left leg?)
    Not sure about this, but NPCC drilled my ex-school's marching band such that these commands can be given on any leg...
    eat. drink. shoot

  7. #27
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    Charlie: dun play play with the lau jiao man!

    glennyong: SWO Jeffrey = SWO Jeff Chung? Used to be 3DIV RSM? :mad: you must be nuts to like him.. he's gonna charge you!
    Wah lao, you also know him? Famous! He was the 3 Div RSM when i was going to ORD during my NS days. Heng ah! He likes to stand at the guard room in the early mornings to catch people who book in........

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelccm
    No offence to our malay friends, but sometimes I wish our SAF can adopt english for their commands.
    i was brought up in Hong kong and i know ZERO malay phases....it was even worse for me during BMT days....there was once during SISPEC when i was the appointment holder and got to give command to the whole platoon

    and guess what? all my mates give me a blur face because they can hardly understand what i was shouting

    luckily my instructor understand that i got difficulty prononcing malay word...so he immediately take over the drill
    We are HDD of PC & FT are MB add to storage;
    so PC never hangs with enormous storage capacity - LKY

  9. #29
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    Sorry no offend, but after ORD so long ago, I have long forgotten about the commands! Nowadays in ICT, my peers and I just "monkeys see - monkeys do". Haha.. I guess the only commands I remembered (and still use it now) are the hokkien swear words...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric69
    Sorry no offend, but after ORD so long ago, I have long forgotten about the commands! Nowadays in ICT, my peers and I just "monkeys see - monkeys do".
    ICT still got to know commands?

    i only know in-process and out-process
    We are HDD of PC & FT are MB add to storage;
    so PC never hangs with enormous storage capacity - LKY

  11. #31
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    I beg to differ. Granted that there may have been a valid reason historically for using Malay to give commands, I doubt the assertion that it "links us back to our past". I certainly did not feel any linking back to the past, nor a building up of tradition or like concepts. All I experienced was an inherent frustration and not being able to understand what I was doing.

    Also, I doubt that discipline or the "past" is dependent upon the language of execution of the drills. Further, I doubt that using an unfamiliar language boosts disciipline - why not use Swahilli or something?

    Perhaps the concepts work for you, and in which case, your rationale and justification should reflect that personal opinion, instead of the way it is currently crafted, as an objective factual statement of the situation.
    You did not feel it does not mean that that it is not factual. And the stuff I wrote in my last post IS the very reason why we are still using Malay as a Drill Language.

    Learning a new language, albeit only a few verses, does require discipline. And how could Swahilli be compared to Malay in Singapore's context? Unless you were brought up overseas or lived a very sheltered life and studied in an elite same race school (are there any here in Singapore other than the madarasahs?), you MUST have some contact with fellow Sinagporeans of the Malay race.

    Never forget that Singapore was a Malay fishing village, and it is in the History books that Singapore went from it to the city state we are now. Maybe you belong to the new generation where the past is of no concern to you, if that is the case, I feel sorry for you.

  12. #32
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afbug
    Wah lao, you also know him? Famous! He was the 3 Div RSM when i was going to ORD during my NS days. Heng ah! He likes to stand at the guard room in the early mornings to catch people who book in........
    I knew him too... got scolded by him a couple of years back, all because I scolded his RP in front of him.

  13. #33
    vince123123
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    What I'm saying is that you are asserting the points as objective facts rather than your personal opinion. I now request that you show empirical evidence to support your conclusions. Just because you say so doesn't mean that they are factual. On what basis are you saying that your points are valid? Perhaps if you have a letter from the Ministry of Defence or are authorised to make representations on their behalf.

    Swahilli was arbitrarily chosen to illustrate the point that the choice of Malay cannot be for instilling discipline in learning a foreign language.

    You said" it requires discipline to learn the various commands in an unfamiliar language" I am saying that this reason does not support why it is in Malay and not any other foreign language. Besides, again you do not show any basis by saying that this is factual. If it is your opinion, I will accept it, but not when its asserted as facts.

    Having contact with the Malay race is irrelevant for this discussion.

    Besides, as they say, last time policeman wear shorts I think this one sentence sums it up pretty well. Having roots in the past does not equate to having to use drill commands in Malay. To pursue your argument further, we should do everything in Malay then.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    You did not feel it does not mean that that it is not factual. And the stuff I wrote in my last post IS the very reason why we are still using Malay as a Drill Language.

    Learning a new language, albeit only a few verses, does require discipline. And how could Swahilli be compared to Malay in Singapore's context? Unless you were brought up overseas or lived a very sheltered life and studied in an elite same race school (are there any here in Singapore other than the madarasahs?), you MUST have some contact with fellow Sinagporeans of the Malay race.

    Never forget that Singapore was a Malay fishing village, and it is in the History books that Singapore went from it to the city state we are now. Maybe you belong to the new generation where the past is of no concern to you, if that is the case, I feel sorry for you.

  14. #34
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    What I'm saying is that you are asserting the points as objective facts rather than your personal opinion. I now request that you show empirical evidence to support your conclusions. Just because you say so doesn't mean that they are factual. On what basis are you saying that your points are valid? Perhaps if you have a letter from the Ministry of Defence or are authorised to make representations on their behalf.

    Swahilli was arbitrarily chosen to illustrate the point that the choice of Malay cannot be for instilling discipline in learning a foreign language.

    You said" it requires discipline to learn the various commands in an unfamiliar language" I am saying that this reason does not support why it is in Malay and not any other foreign language. Besides, again you do not show any basis by saying that this is factual. If it is your opinion, I will accept it, but not when its asserted as facts.

    Having contact with the Malay race is irrelevant for this discussion.

    Besides, as they say, last time policeman wear shorts I think this one sentence sums it up pretty well. Having roots in the past does not equate to having to use drill commands in Malay. To pursue your argument further, we should do everything in Malay then.

    I'm very sure I've read what I explained to you during my course of work. Let me try and find the data online and link it here for you. But not having it available on the Internet does not mean that what I've said is not true, or that I made them up in my mind.

    You have quoted me out of context. When I said that it takes discipline to learn drill commands in another language, I am emphasizing on the fact that foot drills are a way of inculcating discipline, and using the 'traditional' language of Malay simply just adds another dimension to it.

    Compare Malay with Swahilli, which is more unfamiliar in a locally born and bred Singaporean's context? As I've said earlier, Malay was the language used because of the overwhelming majority of soldiers back in those days were Malays. Maybe it was just too bad that our Chinese forefathers did not join the army in larger numbers, or else we would not be here arguing over this. And it is also a good thing that it was not the Indians that were a majority back then. Compared with Malay, Tamil is even harder to comprehend for Chinese ears.

    I have tried to explain to your misconception but you seemed not to be able to understand. Either that or you quote me out of context on purpose. Which is which?

    Jikalau Kau hendak meneruskan berdebatan ini dalam bahasa melayu, teruskan.

    My proficiency of written Malay is not up to par, But I do relish in the challenge thrown down by you.

  15. #35
    vince123123
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    No problem, I'll wait for you to find the data and post it up. If you're able to substantiate what you said, then I'll withdraw my comments and acknowledge that you are correct.

    Note that I'm more interested not in substantiating the history lesson, but your conclusions on why Malay is stil being used.

    And you may wish to state what "line of work" you're in to add credence to your statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    I'm very sure I've read what I explained to you during my course of work. Let me try and find the data online and link it here for you. But not having it available on the Internet does not mean that what I've said is not true, or that I made them up in my mind.

    My proficiency of written Malay is not up to par, But I do relish in the challenge thrown down by you.
    Last edited by vince123123; 11th July 2005 at 11:27 PM.

  16. #36
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    No problem, I'll wait for you to find the data and post it up. If you're able to substantiate what you said, then I'll withdraw my comments and acknowledge that you are correct.

    Note that I'm more interested not in substantiating the history lesson, but your conclusions on why Malay is stil being used.

    And you may wish to state what "line of work" you're in to add credence to your statements.
    Beri aku sedikit masa. Saya sedang mencari sekarang. Sudah menjadi askar selama 10 tahun.

    For those that do not understand malay, what I'm telling Vince123123 is that I'm asking for some time to search for it. And that I've been a soldier for the past 10 years.

  17. #37
    vince123123
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    And, no one is asking to debate with you in Malay, no idea why you're going off on a voyage of your own.

    私は私が次の人よりよいと証明することを試みるのに別の言語をちょうど使用するラメとしてない。言語は通信 手段、ない才能の測定ちょうどである。 (My proficiency of written Japanese is bad, but I do relish in observing the antics you produce to try to win an argument)

    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    Jikalau Kau hendak meneruskan berdebatan ini dalam bahasa melayu, teruskan.

    My proficiency of written Malay is not up to par, But I do relish in the challenge thrown down by you.

  18. #38
    vince123123
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    I've already said I would wait for it, I've not put any time pressures or deadline on you, therefore no need to ask for time to search for it, you've all the time in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngKuGuay
    Beri aku sedikit masa. Saya sedang mencari sekarang. Sudah menjadi askar selama 10 tahun.

    For those that do not understand malay, what I'm telling Vince123123 is that I'm asking for some time to search for it. And that I've been a soldier for the past 10 years.

  19. #39
    Member AngKuGuay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    And, no one is asking to debate with you in Malay, no idea why you're going off on a voyage of your own.

    私は私が次の人よりよいと証明することを試みるのに別の言語をちょうど使用するラメとしてない。言語は通信 手段、ない才能の測定ちょうどである。 (My proficiency of written Japanese is bad, but I do relish in observing the antics you produce to try to win an argument)

    You did realise that you were the one to initiate the malay exchange in the first place?

  20. #40

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    erm stop arguing?

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