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Thread: Shall we ban...

  1. #101

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    To Voigtlander

    To answer your request to swing to show you how to "critique", look under "Photographic Assay" in the Portraits subforum.

    Both Swing, Mattlock, and I had posted some comments/critique on these images. These comments are not the usual "nice", "I like them". Some considered thoughts were given. Whether one agree with the comments/critique or not is another matter.

  2. #102
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    To change, it has to start with one person, yourself. (not refering to anyone)
    once people see the benifits it will catch on.

    there is no need to ban anything, but to encourage constructive critique.
    Newbies will see and learn with every comment he/she reads and soon will be able to contribute.

    BTW some are not so good with words and might sound rather harsh.
    Cheers.

    eg: good suggestion!, but maybe you might want to change your choice of words.
    Use words like "encourage constructive critique" instead of the negative "ban"

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Against my better judgement, I would like to give some thoughts on your comments.

    You are in fact issuing a direct challenge to "Swing" - "using her photos", "what is your credentials", "Show your work first", "talking the talk and not walking the walk".

    I think this type of Direct Challenge is not warranted.

    What is important is the considered opinion and validity of the opinion - irrespective of who the person offering the critique is. Of course it will be a bonus, if the one offering the critque is a respected photographer.

    Assuming there you did not intend to actually "challenge" swing, what you may want is for "swing" to show you/us how he/she would critique an image, using ANY image that is available.

    I would not dare to challenge her excellence! But if you really want to learn photography, I presume one should learn from a competent teacher with a respectable portfolio. I will take a look at the recommended links that you indicated. Just curious, why do you think that swing should not use her own photos as examples? I am not challenging you but it is customary for photography teachers to use their own work during classes is it not?

    It is not warranted for me to 'challenge' her but definitely allow a PMS woman to profile and insult members of this forum. Sir, I regard that as double-standard on your part. Please note, I am not challenging you but I have to point this out to you, this inconsistency of yours.
    Last edited by Voigtlander; 4th July 2005 at 10:19 AM.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by swingoutsister
    shall we ban comments like "very nice photos!"

    it doesn't help anything or anyone with comments like that, except to serve the egos of the thread poster.

    what can we all learn from comments like "very nice photos!"

    and then the poster goes on and take similarly weak pictures, post and get "very nice photos!" all over again.

    i'm sorry to be so harsh but some people here ought be given a rough shake.
    wake up! wake up!

    if you like it, share with us why you like it.
    Hi,

    After reading some replies.. I decided to reply too. I seriously do not think the photographers here give shallow comments. Honestly most of them from what I gathered in this forum that they do give their point of views and perspective of how the pictures should be taken and improve. If you really think this forum like what you are thinking, maybe you should stop by dpreview forum. Good, Bad and average pictures are all rated by most of the ppl there as "very well taken" and "awesome". I have really seen some bad ones, but of coz sometimes the people at the dpreview are just too humble. I guess it's not so nice to make bad critique to those very nice newbies...anyway who does not want good comments to push himself to shoot more and show us his work? Just my two cents..

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voigtlander
    Just curious, why do you think that swing should not use her own photos as examples? I am not challenging you but it is customary for photography teachers to use their own work during classes is it not?

    It is not warranted for me to 'challenge' her but definitely allow a PMS woman to profile and insult members of this forum. Sir, I regard that as double-standard on your part. Please note, I am not challenging you but I have to point this out to you, this inconsistency of yours.
    1 The main purpose of your statement is to see how swing give critiques. In this respect, what image swing use to illustrate her method of crituque is irrelevant. A person may not be imbuded with the talents to be a star football player, but then may be gifted to see plays and plans in a way no star football players may.

    2 I am afraid that I am unable to see what you call a "double-standard". Pardon my lack of ability to see this. Swing made a statement to get critiques to be better. There must of course be a reason for him/her to make such a statement. And here I support his/her statement. However, for obvious reasons, I think he/she is wasting her time.

    Swing was making a statement on the state and quality of critiques, challenging people to improve. She was not directing her comments to any specific person. On the contrary, you are making a direct challenge to her.

    Calling people PMS is unhelpful and I may even say, insulting. I am a male, but I consider this is a personal attack on females. Besides, you might not even know if Swing is male or female, even if her nick is "swingoutsister".

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by student

    Calling people PMS is unhelpful and I may even say, insulting. I am a male, but I consider this is a personal attack on females. Besides, you might not even know if Swing is male or female, even if her nick is "swingoutsister".
    I am afraid I am not making this up. In her earlier post she claimed she is having PMS. Since only the female gender have biological period and PMS, I would safely presume Swing is a she. Unless she is actually a he! Anyway, PMS is a valid medical condition and why would you find it a personal attack? My female colleagues could talk about PMS at work and justify their irritable mood with me so what is there to be indignant about?

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    1 The main purpose of your statement is to see how swing give critiques. In this respect, what image swing use to illustrate her method of crituque is irrelevant. A person may not be imbuded with the talents to be a star football player, but then may be gifted to see plays and plans in a way no star football players may.

    2 I am afraid that I am unable to see what you call a "double-standard". Pardon my lack of ability to see this. Swing made a statement to get critiques to be better. There must of course be a reason for him/her to make such a statement. And here I support his/her statement. However, for obvious reasons, I think he/she is wasting her time.

    Swing was making a statement on the state and quality of critiques, challenging people to improve. She was not directing her comments to any specific person. On the contrary, you are making a direct challenge to her.

    Calling people PMS is unhelpful and I may even say, insulting. I am a male, but I consider this is a personal attack on females. Besides, you might not even know if Swing is male or female, even if her nick is "swingoutsister".
    sure sounds like a woman w big balls..and u sounds like a teacher rather than a "student"... ....

  8. #108
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voigtlander
    My female colleagues could talk about PMS at work and justify their irritable mood with me so what is there to be indignant about?
    Yeah lah. My female colleagues are also like that leh.

    But when they get PMS they normally don't post a thread in a photo forum requesting standard of critiques to be raised. They just become a pain.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glensky
    sure sounds like a woman w big balls..and u sounds like a teacher rather than a "student"... ....
    Glen, just in case you don't know with silicon all women can have big balls.

    And a teacher is also a student as he keeps on learning.
    Last edited by Sion; 4th July 2005 at 02:13 PM.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by glensky
    sure sounds like a woman w big balls..and u sounds like a teacher rather than a "student"... ....
    Hmm, woman with big balls. Sounds like a new syndrome. Perhaps we can label it "Glensky balls"?

    Only a student learns. And here I am learning how some people have their thinking only in their balls.

    But coming back to topic.

    Instead of talking about my "balls", do you have anything meaningful to say? At all?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by swingoutsister
    when i say 'ban', of course i meant it as a figure of speech.

    jeez do i really have to be that literal, and also lace my posts with sweet candies to please the peace loving, flower waving hippies here? (i guess i have a new category to add)
    What "figure of speech", may I know? From www.dictionary.com:

    tr.v. banned, ban·ning, bans

    1. To prohibit, especially by official decree. See Synonyms at forbid.
    2. South African. Under the former system of apartheid, to deprive (a person suspected of illegal activity) of the right of free movement and association with others.
    3. Archaic. To curse.

    n.
    1. An excommunication or condemnation by church officials.
    2. A prohibition imposed by law or official decree.
    3. Censure, condemnation, or disapproval expressed especially by public opinion.
    4. A curse; an imprecation.
    5. A summons to arms in feudal times.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang
    Now, one of the reason why this thread was allowed to go on-even when it's plain to see the semblance of it degrading into a free for all-was the intention of this thread.

    Swing, your intentions are noble perhaps but mis-guided. Even if it was meant to be taken with a pinch of salt, people are still bound to react to the simple fact that you want to ban something that is actually quite fundamental in CS.

    More often than not, when a shot is posted to share with everyone else, I'm sure the thread started doesn't deliberately put his worst foot forward (although there might be exceptions).

    There is nothing wrong at all in telling someone it's a good shot. It's a simple form of encouragement and at the same time, helps the photographer see how the public reacts to the shot he has posted.

    That being said, there are also some shots that are really badly taken but we also need to understand all of us start from some where and a little encouragement goes a long way. But ultimately, whatever the feedback it, it's best left to the photographer to be the judge of the comments he receives.

    Swing, I do agree with you that "Good shot" or will only go so far in helping the photographer. If you truly wish to help the photographer grow, then please, do contribute your comments of the shots that have been shared. This, I believe, will make a much bigger difference than lobbying for a ban of a particular comment.

    May I please remind everyone to keep this thread civil because I have honestly no wish to close this thread has it definitely has it's merits but should the personal attacks and name calling continues, then all of us will know what's coming.

    Thank you.
    Nice post

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by swingoutsister
    shall we ban comments like "very nice photos!"

    it doesn't help anything or anyone with comments like that, except to serve the egos of the thread poster.

    what can we all learn from comments like "very nice photos!"

    and then the poster goes on and take similarly weak pictures, post and get "very nice photos!" all over again.

    i'm sorry to be so harsh but some people here ought be given a rough shake.
    wake up! wake up!

    if you like it, share with us why you like it.
    very nice post...really, you want to control everything? he he he...crap.
    blog: inbloomphotos.wordpress.com

  14. #114
    Senior Member kenele's Avatar
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    Nice photo no need to comment so much lah! the not so nice ones yes and the aweful one, no one see also, how to comment.

    If you close your mouth no one will knows you are a fool, its only when you open them.

    Hmm! maybe that's why not too many comments!

  15. #115
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    i shall challenge

    4) photographers who shoot close-up and macro shots of household pests and bugs, common flowers and plants you find in well managed parks. and call themselves 'nature' photographers.
    even though it's common flowers and plants and bugs. Do you know them by name? Even within in 'well managed' parks you'll be surprised tho find some rare spieces of insects, bugs or plants, if you only bothered to find out what they are. A few previously thought extinct (within singapore) spieces of butterflies were refound in singapore again recently just last month.

    By whom? your kind 'nature' photographers who shoot in well managed parks. There are many shots done in more secluded parts of singapore but the pics are not posted in here for the fear of destroying the nature habbitat should more people just wanting to catch a glimpse of these rare insects/animals find out where the place is. Imagine a natural insect haven within singapore destroyed by kids catching these insects just for the fun of it.

    Go do a search on the history of AG outings can what happened to the stray cats as a result. If you bothered anyway.

    You're the pro. Please teach me to comment properly, my english lessons stopped after I left sec sch.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    even though it's common flowers and plants and bugs. Do you know them by name? Even within in 'well managed' parks you'll be surprised tho find some rare spieces of insects, bugs or plants, if you only bothered to find out what they are. A few previously thought extinct (within singapore) spieces of butterflies were refound in singapore again recently just last month.

    By whom? your kind 'nature' photographers who shoot in well managed parks. There are many shots done in more secluded parts of singapore but the pics are not posted in here for the fear of destroying the nature habbitat should more people just wanting to catch a glimpse of these rare insects/animals find out where the place is. Imagine a natural insect haven within singapore destroyed by kids catching these insects just for the fun of it.

    Go do a search on the history of AG outings can what happened to the stray cats as a result. If you bothered anyway.

    You're the pro. Please teach me to comment properly, my english lessons stopped after I left sec sch.
    Hear! Hear!

  17. #117
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    if they can't call themselves "Nature Photographers" then what can they call themselves?

    Even if they do not know the name of the subject, it is not an issue.
    This is a photography forum, the image is all that counts.

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Hmm, woman with big balls. Sounds like a new syndrome. Perhaps we can label it "Glensky balls"?

    Only a student learns. And here I am learning how some people have their thinking only in their balls.

    But coming back to topic.

    Instead of talking about my "balls", do you have anything meaningful to say? At all?
    crap...crap.... crap.... ohhh common at least my balls are at e same place.. not unlike others they are on their mouth...excuse me mr teacher aka "student" its a lot nicer to say "woman w big balls" or " teacher hiding behind ur student name" than saying ur both *******s! right?
    Last edited by glensky; 4th July 2005 at 07:40 PM.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    i shall challenge



    even though it's common flowers and plants and bugs. Do you know them by name? Even within in 'well managed' parks you'll be surprised tho find some rare spieces of insects, bugs or plants, if you only bothered to find out what they are. A few previously thought extinct (within singapore) spieces of butterflies were refound in singapore again recently just last month.

    By whom? your kind 'nature' photographers who shoot in well managed parks. There are many shots done in more secluded parts of singapore but the pics are not posted in here for the fear of destroying the nature habbitat should more people just wanting to catch a glimpse of these rare insects/animals find out where the place is. Imagine a natural insect haven within singapore destroyed by kids catching these insects just for the fun of it.

    Go do a search on the history of AG outings can what happened to the stray cats as a result. If you bothered anyway.

    You're the pro. Please teach me to comment properly, my english lessons stopped after I left sec sch.
    I was wondering where this come from. Then I saw it in post #25. This was of course not part of the original issue that swing brought up regarding critiques. The contents of this post was to describe swing's categorisation of CS members.

    In this respect, I feel that her use of "......" is not justified. I would agree with you that a person who likes nature and use photography as part of his tools in nature sould rightly be called a "nature photographer". The standards and quality of his photography is another matter. My friend was the first president of the southern branch of the Nature Society, and another is currently the President.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by glensky
    crap...crap.... crap.... ohhh common at least my balls are at e same place.. not unlike others they are on their mouth.
    So nothing sensible to say? Contented that your balls are "Down there"? And talk about more crap?

    Sorry Mods. Delete this post if you wish.

    But such juvenile behaviour!

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