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Thread: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

  1. #1
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    Default Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    'Wrong instructions increased death toll'

    Full outcome not known. They say hundreds missing. But the ferry is mostly underwater now. So what does that mean?

    If you find yourself in a similar situation, do a quick analysis, have an independent mind and don't always assume that the guy giving instructions in the crisis, knows what he is talking about.

    If the guy is an idiot but wants to act as though he is cool and in control, he can endanger your life.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    The ship hit a rock and the side with hole are filled with water.
    The center of gravity was shifting and tilting the ship to one side.
    Everyone on the ship panic and run around like headless chickens.
    If everyone ran to the wrong side of the ship. It may capsize faster.
    The captain may have good intention when he asked everyone to stay put but may be poor judgement.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    'Wrong instructions increased death toll'

    Full outcome not known. They say hundreds missing. But the ferry is mostly underwater now. So what does that mean?

    If you find yourself in a similar situation, do a quick analysis, have an independent mind and don't always assume that the guy giving instructions in the crisis, knows what he is talking about.

    If the guy is an idiot but wants to act as though he is cool and in control, he can endanger your life.
    It's hard to trust the captain or anyone in certain situations.

    Agree that it's impt to use some common sense

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    It is strange that they never lower the life boats. Seem like none of them know anything about how to react to this kind of emergency or may be the ship is sinking too fast.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  5. #5

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    Reminds me of that Italian cruise ship incident. That captain was one of the first to abandon ship. KNN......

    how to trust this kind of captain?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Latest news paper report that the original captain is on leave. The stand in captain may be unfamiliar with the route and the ship is 2 hrs late. He may be trying to shorten the journey by going between 2 islands.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    In Asia, particularly China, Japan and Korea - people are indoctrinated to obey instructions especially if it is from a so-called authority figure.

    Maybe this has something to do with Confucianist doctrine.

    Some people may not question even if it is obvious that the instructions are blatantly wrong.

    Apparently the standby ferry captain was a clueless guy. He crashed the ferry and .........FROZE

    He panicked and became brain dead. Completely did not know how to react after the crash, to save passengers.
    Only 1 out of 48 life boats was deployed.

    In such a mental breakdown state, the captain told (or allowed his crew to tell) people to maintain status quo (remain in their rooms as though nothing happened)
    in the hope that:
    • someone external will come to rescue them
    • the situation will improve by itself as time passes

    287 "missing" may be a euphemism. Can they expect people to survive underwater for many hours in freezing waters?

    What is wrong in this case (similar to the Italian captain of Concordia) is that the captain was already rescued, leaving hundreds of his passengers behind on the ship. Whatever happened to the naval principle that the skipper is the last one to leave the ship in a crisis? BBC news reports the captain of the Korean ferry is being investigated that he was one of the first to abandon ship.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 17th April 2014 at 10:20 PM.

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    Senior Member shierwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Reminds me of that Italian cruise ship incident. That captain was one of the first to abandon ship. KNN......

    how to trust this kind of captain?
    No one remembers the Birkenhead Drill............

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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Some people are so wicked, they capitalise on this tragedy to scam South Korean mobile phone users.

    image credit: www.arirang.co.kr




    quote from www.arirang.co.kr

    With the nation's focus on the rescue efforts, the government is warning about a text scam.
    The text falsely indicates that it is a message from Yonhap News Agency and includes a link to a video of the rescue operations at the site where the ferry is located.
    And smartphone users who click on this link, a malicious app is installed that will leak the personal information embedded in the device.
    It then induces the users to install a fake banking app that will then extract financial information of the users.
    It is not yet sure how many are affected by this scam.
    The government is trying to prevent further spread of this text and plans to distribute a vaccine to the users.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    'Wrong instructions increased death toll'

    Full outcome not known. They say hundreds missing. But the ferry is mostly underwater now. So what does that mean?

    If you find yourself in a similar situation, do a quick analysis, have an independent mind and don't always assume that the guy giving instructions in the crisis, knows what he is talking about.

    If the guy is an idiot but wants to act as though he is cool and in control, he can endanger your life.
    Its easier to say it here than trying to imagine the fear those people were in and they might have been incapacitated to work things out. Their safety lies solely on the crew..... period.

  11. #11
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    It probably happen very fast, there is no time to do anything. Hope they can do something to prevent any recurrence.

    Why allow such a big ship to go into so shallow water or again it travels out off the route but there is no system to track and warn them.

    My car GPS can advise me when I went the wrong way.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    It probably happen very fast, there is no time to do anything. Hope they can do something to prevent any recurrence.

    Why allow such a big ship to go into so shallow water or again it travels out off the route but there is no system to track and warn them.

    My car GPS can advise me when I went the wrong way.
    listening to radio, that the captain asked the people to stay put in rooms with life jackets. Then he spends 30 mins to tilt the ship but failed.

    In chaos status, he announced to evacuate the ship, but most likely the order did not pass down….

    Many suggested as the ship was titled very badly, should just evacuate the people first…
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    According to the Korean TV news, the ferry captain broke all the rules.

    Under the Korean marine shipping rules even for a ship less than half the size of the Sewol-Ho ferry, the captain or the 2nd class officer was supposed to helm the ship.

    He left it to a 3rd class officer to helm the ferry. Which is a clear offence.

    Under the ferry company manual, when the ship is in danger the captain and all the crew must first evacuate all the passengers before they can leave the ferry.

    When the ferry radioed Cheju control station, 4 minutes after first radio contact, Cheju gave clear instructions to the ferry captain to get all passengers to evacuate. He did not do so.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    The vice principal of a high school whose pupils died or are missing in a South Korean ferry accident has committed suicide by hanging himself outside a large gym where families of the victims were staying.
    Police said that Kang Min-gyu, 52, had been missing since Thursday and appeared to have hung himself with his belt from a tree outside the gym.
    Out of 475 passengers and crew on the ship, about 340 were students and teachers from the Danwon High School in Ansan, an industrial town near Seoul, who were on an outing to the resort island of Jeju.
    They account for about 250 of those missing.

    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/south-kore...--finance.html
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/engli...140419_04.html

    NHK World (Japanese TV network) has the best reporting on the sudden changes in direction of the ferry.
    See about 2.min 20sec into the video.

    Only NHK World reported this aspect properly. Put it down to Japanese attention to detail.
    Surprisingly, CNN, BBC and even Arirang (Korean TV network) could not report on this aspect properly and in detail.
    Don't know what is wrong with them.

    The insane rapid changes in direction may have caused shifting of the ferry load causing it to de-stabilise.
    Cheju (Jeju) Island is in the south. Why is the ferry steered in 2 abrupt turns back to the north?

    Image Credit: From NHK World TV video

    Last edited by ricohflex; 19th April 2014 at 11:18 AM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions.
    The fact that we don't follow instructions our country gets to be in an enviable world-class position.

    Singaporeans are lateral thinkers, able to think outside of the box and are creative and break all rules. Foreign talents sharpen our edges, bring a new undefine dimension and make us a more formidable winner.

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    Well very often we assess situation very much based on what we are told, especially from people in authority, thats how society works..

    Passengers are not in a position to assess seriousness of situation.

    Just like in a reverse situation, if firemen told us to evacuate a building because of fire which we dnt see, do u follow or say will assess ur own situation..?

    Of course I agree canot always jus follow..
    Last edited by saberlancer; 19th April 2014 at 11:18 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    In all cases use your discretion.

    If your life or life of your family or your entire life savings is in the balance, then stop and think through it. Assess your situation and consider whether the instructions given make any sense.


    Example 1
    e.g. stocks and shares gurus and authoritative organisations said some things about CLOB, before Asian financial crisis in 1997 and especially before 1 Sep 1998.
    The wiser SG speculators assessed:
    • Whether the person or organisation giving instructions or reassurances, really knows what is going on.
    • or is in any position to say those things.
    • or in control of what is happening or what is about to happen.
    They assessed correctly and got out of CLOB. Some who did not lost their life savings.



    Example 2
    e.g. in the 911 case, after the North Tower got hit first, people in the South Tower should have been immediately evacuated. Another case of people obeying wrong instructions.

    Delay meant death on 9/11
    Announcements that the building was "secure" may have led to the deaths of hundreds of people. After American Airlines Flight 11 hit the north tower, fire safety officials for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operated the Trade Center, broadcast several announcements over the public-address system that the south tower was safe and that workers did not need to evacuate. Many who were leaving the south tower turned back when they heard them.


    However, if the consequences of following instructions even if they turn out to be wrong, is very minor and of no importance at all, then no need to worry about it. For example, if someone instructed you wrongly how to operate the camera and as a result you over-exposed 1 roll of film.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 20th April 2014 at 01:15 PM.

  19. #19

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    V sad. They are pulling out more bodies now

  20. #20

    Default Re: Sometimes, assess situation and don't always follow instructions

    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    V sad. They are pulling out more bodies now
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...10-more-bodies

    and it's pretty funny that that after so long, they still think that there'll be survivors and are standing-by for orders to lift the ferry.

    Three vessels with cranes are at the accident site to prepare to salvage the ferry, but they will not hoist the ship before getting approval from family members of those still believed inside, because the lifting could endanger any survivors, said a coastguard officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.
    and apparently, the news agencies are all harping on this fact

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