The moderator is infact playing god!

[Deadpoet]

There is absolutely no reason for the moderator to lock reachme's thread. It really does not matter which side I am on in the bride vs 2 photographers incident. Since the bride did bring up the matter on the forum, and the incident involves 2 photographers, and that CS is a forum for photographers, this matter is no longer private and is infact of interest to us photographers.

By locking the thread, and by telling reachme that the moderator does not agree to his posting, is god playing here. Do we now have to have moderator's permission or agreement before we can post something?? And if a moderator does not agree to what we posted, the thread will be closed?

I am not taking any stand to reachme's thread or katherine's (bride) thread. What I believe we members of CS, must take a stand against moderator's heavy hand against post, opinions or topics that they did not approve of. This is not the first time this had happenned.

I have nothing against anyone of the moderator. I don't know any of them personally nor on the board. However, there recent actions are very questionable. I hope CS Admin will take a look at their policy, and act accordingly.

[hongsien]

Originally Posted by Deadpoet ......... I don't know any of them personally nor on the board..........

You will know them personally soon!!! :-)

[roygoh]

First, let me play the god of housekeeping by moving this thread to the appropriate forum.

[Stylus C34]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Ladies & Gentlemen, The thread has fulfilled it's purposes and now that the actual photographer has showed up, i suggest that both Kath & Chris take their dispute offline or in PM. For everyone else who think they have an axe to grind with anyone else, pls do so via PM. The thread is hereby closed. Thank you.

Close the case, life goes on. Is that too difficult to understand?

[Paul_Yeo]

Thread closed.

[Caspere]

Get out and shoot.

[xxxger]

Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo Thread closed.

Who you think you are? Say close then close ?
you sound like siding that AD photog

[Paul_Yeo]

I am pretending to be moderator

but u all so clever, not fooled.

[hazekang]

eh i tink we need to noe the response of the other photog b4 we can cosider the case closed...

[SniperD]

Originally Posted by roygoh First, let me play the god of housekeeping by moving this thread to the appropriate forum.

hahahaha....

[dkw]

They way I see it, all users are merely guests here. The mods and admin have the right to do whatever they want, short of defamation, to the threads or site. As a good guest, we obey the rules, no matter how harsh or arbitrary they seem. If we can't live with that, we are free to leave, or better yet, set up an alternative website where we are truly "free" to express ourselves.

In short, I'm happy to let the mods play god in this little corner of the world called Clubsnap.

[zaren]

well...i have re-read CS's updated terms of use and guidelines for posting. IMHO, both threads (kat's and reachme's) do not appear to violate the tenets of CS's guidelines. there were some beginnings of of personal attacks/flames e.g. kahheng calling kat "whiney", but these isolated incidents could easily be snuffed out by a mod stepping in and telling the respective parties to respect posting guidelines. as it turned out, the thread "self-moderated" and the confusion in KH's identity was ironed out. the issues raised are of considerable interest to CS as a photographic community and it would be a shame to close the thread when there was no clear and sustained signs of mischief, trolling or inflammatory posts. i'm sure other CS members besides myself are interested to find out the truth behind the matter, whether kat's allegations were justified, and whether the good name of freelance wedding photography has indeed been dragged through the mud by some photographers. if the topic is of no interest at all to anyone, it will die a natural death.

just my $0.02

[dominator]

i just feels that as long as here is a forum, we can discuss and share. Nobody have the rights to stop anybody unless topic are getting ridiculous.

[mpenza]

it's a private affair between the parties. if the parties wanted to come back to clarify or post, they could easily do so themselves.

[roygoh]

Originally Posted by Deadpoet There is absolutely no reason for the moderator to lock reachme's thread. It really does not matter which side I am on in the bride vs 2 photographers incident. Since the bride did bring up the matter on the forum, and the incident involves 2 photographers, and that CS is a forum for photographers, this matter is no longer private and is infact of interest to us photographers. By locking the thread, and by telling reachme that the moderator does not agree to his posting, is god playing here. Do we now have to have moderator's permission or agreement before we can post something?? And if a moderator does not agree to what we posted, the thread will be closed? I am not taking any stand to reachme's thread or katherine's (bride) thread. What I believe we members of CS, must take a stand against moderator's heavy hand against post, opinions or topics that they did not approve of. This is not the first time this had happenned. I have nothing against anyone of the moderator. I don't know any of them personally nor on the board. However, there recent actions are very questionable. I hope CS Admin will take a look at their policy, and act accordingly.

I agree that closing a thread simply because I didn't agree with it is not a good reason. In most cases I close threads that violate CS terms and conditions and/or any forum guidelines. In cases not clearly defined by the written terms and guidelines I make my judgement based on whether the disucssion is in line with the Admin's vision for CS, and I try my best to discuss with the admins and mod team before taking action.

The original thread by Katherine was close because of 2 reasons:

1. Soh Kah Heng (bebe_chris) has responded and indicated that he will try to contact Roy Wong. I believe he will work with both Katherine and Roy Wong to resolve the dispute. If Katherine's intention was to get the response of Soh kah Heng by posting her experience on CS (because this is a photographers' forum afterall) then she has got what she wanted. If her intention was to warn other couples then CS is really not the right place to do so.

2. There thread was basically going out of control with members getting worked up, making baseless speculations (identity of photographer), judgements (calling the photographer "irresponsible") and calling names (eg, liar, con man) when there was insufficient information posted by Katherine in the first pace. There was also a big fuss over the "confused" identity which in my opinion, was kicked up by busybodies and later blown out of proportions by the "accused". If you read the thread carefully, by post #13 Katherine has already cited the full name of Soh Kah Heng and some other member later identified him as Chris Soh. Hongsien also clarified on behalf of the kahheng that he does not offer wedding photography services. By the time kahheng started participating in the thread, there should be no more identity confusion.

I fully support Wolfgang's decision to close the original thread, and I see reachme2003's thread as an attempt to revive a closed thread. That's why I decided to close it.

Originally Posted by zaren well...i have re-read CS's updated terms of use and guidelines for posting. IMHO, both threads (kat's and reachme's) do not appear to violate the tenets of CS's guidelines. there were some beginnings of of personal attacks/flames e.g. kahheng calling kat "whiney", but these isolated incidents could easily be snuffed out by a mod stepping in and telling the respective parties to respect posting guidelines. as it turned out, the thread "self-moderated" and the confusion in KH's identity was ironed out. the issues raised are of considerable interest to CS as a photographic community and it would be a shame to close the thread when there was no clear and sustained signs of mischief, trolling or inflammatory posts. i'm sure other CS members besides myself are interested to find out the truth behind the matter, whether kat's allegations were justified, and whether the good name of freelance wedding photography has indeed been dragged through the mud by some photographers. if the topic is of no interest at all to anyone, it will die a natural death. just my $0.02

Appreciate your feedback.

Frankly I am also interested to know the truth behind the dispute and how the parties involved would go about resolving this.

However, I think those of us here not directly involved in the issue are simply not entitled to such information. It is up to the parties involved to offer that information to the members here, and if they choose to do so, they can alwasy start a new thread. I don't think the closing of the original thread should prevent or discourage them from doing so.

The fact that this matter should only be settled between the parties involved does not change even though one of them has chosen to broadcast the issue on this forum and it does not matter how interested we are in getting to the truth.

On the comments about irresponsible photographers bringing shame to the community and spoiling the market blah blah....I just want to say that there are black sheeps in every trade and if there is a market for the trade the trade will not die because of the black sheeps. There are athletes caught taking steroids but the Olympic Games still happen every 4 years. There are lousy sellers and buyers in B&S but it remains the most active sub-forum in CS.

Hopefully I have explained my stand clearly enough, especially to Deadpoet and zaren.

To Deadpoet, if you still have issues with the moderators in other incidents you are welcomed to raise them in the feedback forum also.

- Roy

[metalgear]

fact is that moderators have power to delete posts or close threads, and moderators are humans too with personal judgement and personal values.

looks like you'll have to learn to live with this, or find anothe board where you can associate with the moderators there, or be a moderator yourself !

not trying to be rude here, but just trying to explain that we can't be idealistic in real-life situations. i know, life's not fair.....

[fotoudavid]

god's must be and should be fair...........................

if humans act as gods, then thats the other stories...................

[azul123]

Originally Posted by zaren well...i have re-read CS's updated terms of use and guidelines for posting. IMHO, both threads (kat's and reachme's) do not appear to violate the tenets of CS's guidelines. there were some beginnings of of personal attacks/flames e.g. kahheng calling kat "whiney", but these isolated incidents could easily be snuffed out by a mod stepping in and telling the respective parties to respect posting guidelines. as it turned out, the thread "self-moderated" and the confusion in KH's identity was ironed out. the issues raised are of considerable interest to CS as a photographic community and it would be a shame to close the thread when there was no clear and sustained signs of mischief, trolling or inflammatory posts. i'm sure other CS members besides myself are interested to find out the truth behind the matter, whether kat's allegations were justified, and whether the good name of freelance wedding photography has indeed been dragged through the mud by some photographers. if the topic is of no interest at all to anyone, it will die a natural death. just my $0.02

Points well raised, IMHO...

There are always disagreement and disputes all around, can't be closing everyone of them right?

../azul123

[jOhO]

I think Roy has posted a very very well-written explanation (which i'm sure he took time and effort to pen).

I was waiting for such a response to see how the moderators would deal with this and i must say i'm impressed. his explanation left me no doubt that CS mods are doing the right thing in this forum.

like many of you, i wondered if it was right to close it. but after reading roy's response, i concur with him.

[student]

Originally Posted by metalgear fact is that moderators have power to delete posts or close threads, and moderators are humans too with personal judgement and personal values. looks like you'll have to learn to live with this, or find anothe board where you can associate with the moderators there, or be a moderator yourself ! not trying to be rude here, but just trying to explain that we can't be idealistic in real-life situations. i know, life's not fair.....

There is absolutely no doubt that that moderators are humans (I assume, are they?) with all the erroneous thinking and misjudgements that is so characteristic of the human race.

And on this basis, I am prepared to accept that they can make mistakes. And I certainly hope they are prepared to accept that they can make mistakes.

It is also true that we are guests here. And as guests we should try to behave in a reasonable manner. But we are "invited guests". This forum is an open forum "inviting" anyone interested in things photographic to come and learn and share. And as "invited" guests we should be accorded decent respects.

Most of the time, we are indeed treated with respect. Thank you.

But sometimes the unsavory side of humanity affects a moderator or two. And wrong judgements are made. Wrong judgements are not neccesarily an indictment of that moderator. It is only a wrong judgement that can be corrected easily if "face" does not come in to interfere.

And I think moderators should learn to moderate themselves, and not "close ranks". This will bring the supposedly impartiality of moderators into disrepute. I know this can happen and indeed had happened.

My comments do not apply to this particular thread. But if as what Zaren had mentioned regarding reachme's post is correct, then I will have to agree with Deadpoet that closing reachme's thread maybe inappropriate.