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Thread: Property agents are not productive

  1. #1
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Property agents are not productive

    http://www.todayonline.com/commentar...inglepage=true

    "Thousands of real estate agents toil to help rotate capital, but create nothing of lasting value to the economy. The investment in their education and skills in other areas most agents are not by original training property specialists is also largely wasted.

    High property prices and a large volume of sales are symptomatic of a mismatch in demand and supply and speculative behaviour, but are not in themselves sources of underlying economic growth."

    You agree? Especially if you are a property agent...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Property agents are like those traders in wall street. They help speculator create a bubble. When the bubble burst, many people lose their money.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    I agree, those wall st speculator and property agents provide little value. I'm not an agent of course, otherwise I'll disagree

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    But no choice leh.. Rules and regulations are getting more and more complex.. Need agent to "advice" .. Just like car agents with coe.. Hehehe flame flame..

  5. #5
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Property agents don't produce of cos not productive la ...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanlio View Post
    But no choice leh.. Rules and regulations are getting more and more complex.. Need agent to "advice" .. Just like car agents with coe.. Hehehe flame flame..
    I agree, but instead of percentage of the deal, the agents should be given limited incentives.
    Otherwise they'll jack up prices

  7. #7
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    playing the devil's advocate

    then you better know how to source enough homes to view, do your own marketing of your property, tread through the legal minefield to protect yourself during a transaction and settle all fees and stamp duties involved without any help

    so by your reasoning, waiters , salespeople , promoters are unproductive ?

    most time its our own laziness (myself included)and need for convenience that create these jobs

    not everyone is a 'producer'

    2nd hand car dealers are prime examples ..... they exist for a reason ...... we're too lazy to find out how to buy/sell cars in the 2nd hand markets ourselves BUT a growing number of us are aware of the car buying/selling processes and procedures nowadays that we can pretty much market and sell our cars direct to a prospective in the 2nd hand market without relying on a 2nd hand car dealer via eg sgcarmart.

    please show some respect for other people's less glamorous career choices in your eyes ...... they also have families to feed and dreams of making it big too

    of course there are black sheep but dont paint everyone in same brush

    lastly imho its the large property deals and developers together with property ownership laws and bank mortgage rules and rates that determines the state of a property market not individual agents
    Last edited by ed9119; 13th March 2014 at 10:23 PM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    All so see agent up ... agent is only match making, seller asking high price if buyer not paying there is nothing agent can do...
    And in some scenario sellers keep moving their price upwards ... agent also can't do anything... agents also will frustrated cos struggling to get buyer to match seller price and in return being accused by buyer for pushing the price up in which actual case is the greed of the sellers and agent got the blame... every tiny little things also agent, right wrong also agent ... everything big and small problem also agent, can sell also agent, cannot sell also agent, can buy also agent, cannot buy also agent, all are also agents ... Agents sad life, no life, agents are for everyone to push their blame on, agents are punching bag, agents dun deserve to be paid the 1-2% of commission pay them peanuts will do, agents are saints, agents are devil, agents are treated like dirt, agents are runner, agents are rouge ... all these who knows ... 心事啥人知? if all think agents are unscrupulous i would also encourage you to bring them to justice report to the authorities if you all dun where i can enlighten just go to www.cea.gov.sg

    And as always Everybody only see wa... agent never do anything earn so much ...can pay half price can dun pay GST? Hello dun you know GST is for garment meh ... u think agent pocket ah? If you go restaurant eat then tell them you dun pay GST can? Service Fee dun pay can? if can then also can dun pay agents lor ... if cannot then kindly pay la ... is hard earn money lei ... there is no easy money ... if anyone think is easy money i would greatly encourage you come and kindly put on the shoes of an agent ... then we shall see if it is easy money and when no one is contributing to your bonuses... CPF ... Medisave... Medical benefits ... etc ...

    We are just like those full time photographers also same ma ... sure you wouldn't want your client to cut your service fees during payment when actual fact you have already agreed on the price before you start work no? ... Sure we will go all out to get back the rest ... that we deserved...

    ok put an end to my ranting.

    Add on bait more, some times buyer sellers abit not happy complain now with CEA even more regular rampant mosquito bite also compliant, kenna wife/husband scold also agent tio complain, agent not in the wrong also compliant... then not shiok kenna sue, buyers sue seller sue sue till pants off... rich ones then engage in courtroom battle ... but not many agent can afford to...

    On top agents sometimes also collect no commission sellers run away buyers went into hiding, some are poor while some claim poor, some refuse to pay, then go small claim just for the $1k+ ended up couldn't claim back all ... best of all kenna paid via instalment of $50 per month over period of 20++ months ... who in the world allowed his pay of $1k+ over a period of 20+ months but agent why cos being ordered to, almost like do charity work then in the mist kenna scold slam kick punched knee-ed elbow-ed step on for nothing ...

    of cos dun deny there is black sheep a handful of them not everyone in all industries is all the same bond to have black sheeps ... just dun use a pole to weck a flip shipful of people... and as i said before and will say it again if u really kenna a black sheep by all means complain get them out of the industries ...
    Last edited by melvin; 14th March 2014 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    I am not a property agent, but I know many who choose to become one not out of greed but out of necessity after being retrenched. Most agents do not make the glamorous six-figure as depicted in the media. In fact, most property agents drop out as it takes months after the sales before they even get their first commission. Many agents are earning mid 30k per annum. It does sound like a substantial amount. But what if you used to be in a managerial position prior to retrenchment and have 2 or 3 kids who are still young? What job opportunities do you still have especially if you are in your mid 40s or early 50s?

    It is easy to point fingers at property agents but what about the speculators? People who buy the property in order to turn a quick profit, especially in the case of public housing? What about the agencies that take a chunk out of the eventual commission? 1-2% commission is relatively "chump change" when you look at the bigger picture. It is still a significant sum of money. But property agents are merely a tiny cog in this machinery.
    Last edited by JamesW; 14th March 2014 at 12:26 AM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    playing the devil's advocate

    then you better know how to source enough homes to view, do your own marketing of your property, tread through the legal minefield to protect yourself during a transaction and settle all fees and stamp duties involved without any help

    so by your reasoning, waiters , salespeople , promoters are unproductive ?

    most time its our own laziness (myself included)and need for convenience that create these jobs

    not everyone is a 'producer'

    2nd hand car dealers are prime examples ..... they exist for a reason ...... we're too lazy to find out how to buy/sell cars in the 2nd hand markets ourselves BUT a growing number of us are aware of the car buying/selling processes and procedures nowadays that we can pretty much market and sell our cars direct to a prospective in the 2nd hand market without relying on a 2nd hand car dealer via eg sgcarmart.

    please show some respect for other people's less glamorous career choices in your eyes ...... they also have families to feed and dreams of making it big too

    of course there are black sheep but dont paint everyone in same brush

    lastly imho its the large property deals and developers together with property ownership laws and bank mortgage rules and rates that determines the state of a property market not individual agents

    Thanks for the different view point and able to see where the problem lies!

  11. #11
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    I am not a property agent, but I know many who choose to become one not out of greed but out of necessity after being retrenched. Most agents do not make the glamorous six-figure as depicted in the media. In fact, most property agents drop out as it takes months after the sales before they even get their first commission. Many agents are earning mid 30k per annum. It does sound like a substantial amount. But what if you used to be in a managerial position prior to retrenchment and have 2 or 3 kids who are still young? What job opportunities do you still have especially if you are in your mid 40s or early 50s?

    It is easy to point fingers at property agents but what about the speculators? People who buy the property in order to turn a quick profit, especially in the case of public housing? What about the agencies that take a chunk out of the eventual commission? 1-2% commission is relatively "chump change" when you look at the bigger picture. It is still a significant sum of money. But property agents are merely a tiny cog in this machinery.
    Yeah ... not forgetting our marketing cost transportation cost bills etc...

  12. #12
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for agents

    My home was bought after 6-7 agents drove my wife and me all over Singapore seeing properties for almost 6 months

    In the end ..... only ONE got paid the commission when final choice was locked in

    The other agents use their car, petrol , time weekends and evenings to drive us around to show us properties we felt so bad
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    I feel sorry for agents

    My home was bought after 6-7 agents drove my wife and me all over Singapore seeing properties for almost 6 months

    In the end ..... only ONE got paid the commission when final choice was locked in

    The other agents use their car, petrol , time weekends and evenings to drive us around to show us properties we felt so bad
    agent have better access to info than the average person ; agent have network of other agent to find what the client needs.

    agents increase information efficiency in the free market and the efficiency premium is represented as agent commission.

    anyone who says agent not productive needs to review basic economics
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  14. #14
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    agent have better access to info than the average person ; agent have network of other agent to find what the client needs.

    agents increase information efficiency in the free market and the efficiency premium is represented as agent commission.

    anyone who says agent not productive needs to review basic economics
    At the same time, any economist also knows that basic economics is based on numerous assumptions. That said, if anyone recalls Freakonomics, there's a good solid explanation there as to why they will not look out for the client's best interests. https://www.nachi.org/forum/f11/exer...-agents-57929/


    Property agents form part of the service sector. So passing a comment that "they are not productive" is seriously misguided - the same could be said for almost any other job in that sector... And that's a lot of jobs.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Was opposite in my case. I did all the legwork, searched ads online and in papers, contacted and viewed 8-10 units on my own. Somewhere around unit #4, I was interested to put in an offer, but the seller's agent said they didn't deal with buyers directly, and I had to go through his 'colleague', who would act as my agent. Thought it was distasteful. Didn't want to participate. When I finally found the unit I wanted, guess what, same thing! Collusion. Gave me the impression that this practice is extremely common, and there was little an independent buyer who wanted to do without an agent could do. You're simply forced to 'engage' the other agent even though you did all the preliminary legwork yourself in getting there.

    This experience gave me the impression that there are agents out there who are really acting solely in their own interests first, not the buyers/sellers they are supposed to represent. They collude with fellow agents to keep independent buyers out. I know as a result of this 'agent', the sellers did not receive the full COV I was willing to pay them. E.g., During negotiations, I had told 'my' agent $X was what I was willing to go for this unit. It so happened then that the counter-offer from the sellers was $X-(His exact commission amount). Pure coincidence? I don't think so. He's a bit of a genius for being able to create a paycheque for himself out of nowhere. I wasn't entirely unhappy because my budget was met, but felt sorry that the sellers had a certain amount of what was due to them leached from them from someone whose role, was in my particular context, quite unnecessary.

    I don't doubt that there will definitely be agents who act in a far more ethical and professional manner, or that there will be certain types of transactions where they do create value for the buyer/seller they are representing, but I've not met them yet in my short journey as a home-buyer.
    Last edited by kandinsky; 14th March 2014 at 11:59 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by kandinsky View Post
    I don't doubt that there will definitely be agents who act in a far more ethical and professional manner, or that there will be certain types of transactions where they do create value for the buyer/seller they are representing, but I've not met them yet in my short journey as a home-buyer.
    Same case with many rental properties. Agents have genuine value when free market is working. In this case, they distorted the market.

  17. #17
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Many years ago, a doctor friend in a moment of pride declared to me: "You know, the only true meaningful job in the world is being a doctor. We save lives. All other jobs are miserable in comparison."

  18. #18
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Many years ago, a doctor friend in a moment of pride declared to me: "You know, the only true meaningful job in the world is being a doctor. We save lives. All other jobs are miserable in comparison."
    Sure, until you talk to a jaded GP who sees mundane cases everyday.

    You and you alone derive the value of the job you are doing to yourself. Not the job.

  19. #19
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Quote Originally Posted by kandinsky View Post
    I don't doubt that there will definitely be agents who act in a far more ethical and professional manner, or that there will be certain types of transactions where they do create value for the buyer/seller they are representing, but I've not met them yet in my short journey as a home-buyer.
    I can relate to that. When I came to SG this was the first odd thing I came about: the two agents 'required' to get a rental agreement for an apartment. It never occurred to me why it requires these two people where one (my agent) ferries me around to a list of units selected from a large database within 2 minutes and the other one just sits and waits for visitors. The rest was template papers and a few signatures, for which they cash in a full rental's worth of fees per contract year. I wonder how I managed to get all my apartment rentals done back in Germany without any of these agents.
    But to be fair, the agent for my current apartment is one of the better ones from the lot. She managed to find the place without having any co-agent involved and when there was a water leakage she was there within minutes to help.
    EOS

  20. #20
    Senior Member richiemccaw1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Property agents are not productive

    Fair enough. I think pre-certification and licensing, there was quite a bit of shenanigans going around, such as no co-broke and being forced to accept using the seller's agent's colleague. Hope things have changed in reality since then.

    I do personally think it is okay to pay agents commission to advise me on the procedures and handle the paperwork for me. I would however draw the line at someone who is unable to add value in any way.

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