Off shoe camera cord and CLS with SB600/SB800

[joteo]

With CLS and the ability to remotely trigger the SB600/800 flash from a digital camera like the D70, does this render the off shoe camera cord unnecessary?

Just wondering...

[zmwang]

CLS and off shoe camera cord, I think they are different. At least, there is no pre-flash when using SC-17.

[Danntbt]

Can SB600/800 be triggered by the built in Speedlight?

[espn]

Originally Posted by Danntbt Can SB600/800 be triggered by the built in Speedlight?

Yes, but only on channel 3, group A settings.

[Danntbt]

wow, can use with built-in ....great.....thanks espn....

[Witness]

metinks the dif is the time lag too...

[joteo]

The pre-flashes causes the time lag?

I presume the subject may be scared off by the pre-flashes eg animals?

The time lag from pressing the shutter to actually firing the flash may be irritating to some.

Would these be the only two differences?

Thanks

[Danntbt]

Tried it out...guess should be fine for still-life and more experienced models, but could be distracting for newbies.

[geoyip]

Originally Posted by joteo With CLS and the ability to remotely trigger the SB600/800 flash from a digital camera like the D70, does this render the off shoe camera cord unnecessary? Just wondering...

The Off shoe Flash Cord would still be useful if you want ALL your flash (including the master) to be off camera

Originally Posted by joteo The pre-flashes causes the time lag? I presume the subject may be scared off by the pre-flashes eg animals? The time lag from pressing the shutter to actually firing the flash may be irritating to some. Would these be the only two differences? Thanks

Have been using CLS for insect macro shots, my set up:

Camera
- D70 + Tamron 90mm

Flash
- Flash Bkt + SB29 (Flash Cord)
- SB800 (Master)
- SB 600 (Slave) < on tripod

Have not experience any problems so far

.

[joteo]

Originally Posted by geoyip The Off shoe Flash Cord would still be useful if you want ALL your flash (including the master) to be off camera Have been using CLS for insect macro shots, my set up: Camera - D70 + Tamron 90mm Flash - Flash Bkt + SB29 (Flash Cord) - SB800 (Master) - SB 600 (Slave) < on tripod Have not experience any problems so far .

Hmmm.... please correct me if I'm wrong because I've not used this in practice.

But, isn't it possible to get the onboard flash to trigger the sb800 which triggers the sb600, or with any combinations of sb800s/600s?

If so, then technically with your setup, you still wouldn't need the off shoe cord.

Then we are back to the conclusion that the other drawbacks are still the immediacy of activating the flash and the pre-flashes that might frighten the subject, as mentioned in previous messages.

I just remembered one other possible drawback: Since the camera flash can only communicate with the SB600/800 on Channel 3/Group A to trigger, if someone else next to you is also using a D70 to trigger off his CLS setup, you could end off firing the other person's flash. Yes? No?

And another one: It's a hassle to press the buttons on the flashes to set them up for CLS. If you use an off shoe cord, you can save yourself this hassle by one (1) flash.

[Danntbt]

The built-in speedlight can trigger SB800/600, but that would still mean that there will be flash coming from the direction of the camera, so in a way the lighting possibilities are limited in terms of the way the subject is being lighted.

[geoyip]

Originally Posted by joteo Hmmm.... please correct me if I'm wrong because I've not used this in practice. But, isn't it possible to get the onboard flash to trigger the sb800 which triggers the sb600, or with any combinations of sb800s/600s? If so, then technically with your setup, you still wouldn't need the off shoe cord. Then we are back to the conclusion that the other drawbacks are still the immediacy of activating the flash and the pre-flashes that might frighten the subject, as mentioned in previous messages. I just remembered one other possible drawback: Since the camera flash can only communicate with the SB600/800 on Channel 3/Group A to trigger, if someone else next to you is also using a D70 to trigger off his CLS setup, you could end off firing the other person's flash. Yes? No? And another one: It's a hassle to press the buttons on the flashes to set them up for CLS. If you use an off shoe cord, you can save yourself this hassle by one (1) flash.

To be honest, I've not tried using the onboard flash to trigger. But from what I've gathered, if you use onboard flash, Then the onboard flash would somewhat contribute to the Flash exposure.

As what Danntbt has mention, in situations where you do not want to have light coming from the camera, you'll be better of with a flash cord

Here's one example using the above mention setup:

[espn]

Originally Posted by geoyip To be honest, I've not tried using the onboard flash to trigger. But from what I've gathered, if you use onboard flash, Then the onboard flash would somewhat contribute to the Flash exposure.

No, onboard flash doesn't contribute to the flash exposure.

[espn]

Originally Posted by joteo Hmmm.... please correct me if I'm wrong because I've not used this in practice. But, isn't it possible to get the onboard flash to trigger the sb800 which triggers the sb600, or with any combinations of sb800s/600s?

SB-800s can be commanders for any other SB-800/SB-600s, but do remember to set all of them to the appropriate channel/groups.

D70's speedlight is only commanding via Channel 3 Group A, you can't set it any other channel/group.

Originally Posted by joteo If so, then technically with your setup, you still wouldn't need the off shoe cord.

That's exactly what CLS and i-TTL does. It removes the needs for offshoe cords like SC-17 whilst providing TTL & sycnchronisation of all the flashes.

Originally Posted by joteo Then we are back to the conclusion that the other drawbacks are still the immediacy of activating the flash and the pre-flashes that might frighten the subject, as mentioned in previous messages.

The pre-flash is pretty mild and it's almost instantenous right before the shutter opens and the command flash sends it's readings to the other flashes to fire off and do the compensation automatically.

Originally Posted by joteo I just remembered one other possible drawback: Since the camera flash can only communicate with the SB600/800 on Channel 3/Group A to trigger, if someone else next to you is also using a D70 to trigger off his CLS setup, you could end off firing the other person's flash. Yes? No?

That's ONLY if you set your D70's flash to Commander-TTL mode. That's of course being bad and is something only espn would do.

Originally Posted by joteo And another one: It's a hassle to press the buttons on the flashes to set them up for CLS. If you use an off shoe cord, you can save yourself this hassle by one (1) flash.

True, but you end up having to live with a wire dangling around and extra equipment. You also can't place the flash in other positions like behind trees, on branches, 1m away, etc...

[Danntbt]

Thanks for the tutorial ESPN, tried out as instructed and checked the exif data, indicated that built-in flash did not fire, e.g below, SB 800 behind subhect, exposure manually set at 1/25 F4.5. Flash in TTL mode.

[Danntbt]

[Danntbt]

img refused to be mounted....