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Thread: Want to scoot off also cannot.

  1. #61

    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    What is the problem?

    The plane was not delayed because of fog.



    The plane crew refused to work and fly off at 4am. Nothing to do with the fog. Maybe the crew were not happy with their CNY angpow given by Scoot.
    if this is true, it will be a serious problem.

  2. #62
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure View Post
    if this is true, it will be a serious problem.
    If it were true, we would see the videos of angry passengers already all over Stomp&Co. and the story of the first Singapore Oversea Strike (SOS) would be all over the media. So it's nothing more than a rumbling in the kettle, boiling hot in his FUD kitchen...
    EOS

  3. #63
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure View Post

    KLCC should be quite okay, clean and new right? T1 at night is full of cleaning and maintenance activities, huge army of cleaners are out in force. Cannot sleep well at all with all those noises.
    Have you flown KLCCT? Not KLIA u know. It is a lot worse than BT in Sg.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    In air plane travel, only 1 thing matters. Safety. You want to come back alive from the flight. All the rest is chaff.


    These are just nuisances, troublesome - but not deadly:
    • Flight Delay
    • Missing CNY eve dinner
    • Bad in flight service (if any)

    Scoot needs to straighten out a few things:
    • When unexpected things happen, how to communicate the issue in a timely fashion, to their own airline staff, to their partners in travel agency/airline industry, to the affected passengers and to the relatives/loved ones of their passengers. From the Facebook accounts it is clear that this was not well handled. At least one of the relatives feared the worst - i.e. plane crash in the absence of information, after being told that the flight was not delayed.


    The flight is scheduled to be landed at SIN at 840. Even when I managed to talk to human when I called them before 11am, the agent krpt telling me the flight is not on delayed list.

    • How not to exacerbate a bad situation into worse by asking passengers to board and then telling them to disembark; due to a foreseeable crew problem.
    • If it became obvious that a replacement crew would be needed, then to activate them early so as to reduce the waiting time of passengers and the valuable down time of the aircraft.



    Approximate timings:
    • Original planned timing of flight from TPE to SIN
    Thursday, 30 January, 2014 04:00 hrs depart 08:40 arrive

    • Flight TZ205 originated from Incheon International Airport about 0130 hrs.
    • Flight diverted to KHH and landed there about 0300 hrs.
    • Passengers who were supposed to board the plane at TPE at 0400 hrs waited.
    • Flight landed in TPE at about 0730 hrs.
    • Passengers who wanted to go from Incheon to TPE disembarked.
    • Passengers for the TPE - SIN flight boarded the plane at about 0830 hrs.
    • Passengers informed to disembark at 0930 hrs. Most did but about 30 refused.
    • Passengers waited for next crew.
    • The next revised timing was supposed to be TPE – SIN Thursday, 30 January, 2014 1730 hrs depart 2210 hrs arrive
    • According to a Facebook comment the actual departure time from TPE was 1930 hrs. Actual arrival time was 2330 hrs.

    No idea what is the regulation standard for number of hours worked, before a crew must be replaced.
    Airline industry people would know.

    From Incheon 0130hrs till next morning approximately 1030 hours when the TPE-SIN passengers were told to disembark, is only 9 hours.
    Maybe they need to factor in the flight time of about 4 hours 40 minutes (if the plane were to take off) into the calculation.

    However, it is not as though the crew had been flying all this time causing them to be very tired. They were rested during the diverted landing at KHH.

    And if the next flight was delayed till 1930 hours (due to waiting for replacement crew), then would not that mean the original crew would in fact be very well rested from 1030 hrs to 1930 hrs? Would the original crew have been able to fly the plane after so much rest?

    • Perhaps the root cause is lack of enough crew members at TPE to act as a backup plan, in case of inclement weather. This may be due to the lean operations of a budget airline. They need to keep costs down.

    • Once the flight was diverted to KHH, the airline should have been alerted that there is a possibility of the crew hitting the regulation limit and early action taken to get replacement crew into position.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 6th February 2014 at 09:23 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    When you travel in a budget airline, don't expect good service

    There are no incentive for them to provide better service than non-budget airline

    If the airplane didn't crash and the airline didn't lost your luggage, you should thank God a million times
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  6. #66
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    However, it is not as though the crew had been flying all this time causing them to be very tired. They were rested during the diverted landing at KHH.

    And if the next flight was delayed till 1930 hours (due to waiting for replacement crew), then would not that mean the original crew would in fact be very well rested from 1030 hrs to 1930 hrs? Would the original crew have been able to fly the plane after so much rest?
    It seems you do not understand that it is Aviation Regulation. When the crew is waiting in the airport, they are still considered on the clock. Nothing to do with their personal ability to carry out their duties, or whether they are indeed tired or not. They are not allowed to fly by the rules.

    From Incheon 0130hrs till next morning approximately 1030 hours when the TPE-SIN passengers were told to disembark, is only 9 hours.
    Maybe they need to factor in the flight time of about 4 hours 40 minutes (if the plane were to take off) into the calculation.
    Of course they need to factor in the actual flight time. And you forgot to include a lot of time. Crew has to report 3 hours prior to any flight for briefing and check in. You also need to factor in the time after the flight for debrief and report, because max hours worked is calculated from report to flight to release for layover. Max hours for Flight Duty is very complex. A lot of factors are considered from time of day, to rest prior to duty, to time zones. Here is an example: http://flightimelimits.com/en/ftl-requirements/


    • Perhaps the root cause is lack of enough crew members at TPE to act as a backup plan, in case of inclement weather. This may be due to the lean operations of a budget airline. They need to keep costs down.
    Budget airlines do not have any backup crew members stationed in every destination they fly. More than often, the air crew do flights in what the industry call a "turn" - Fly there, fly back. For shorter budget flights, some of them even do multiple turns a day. How do you think they keep the cost down?

    • Once the flight was diverted to KHH, the airline should have been alerted that there is a possibility of the crew hitting the regulation limit and early action taken to get replacement crew into position.
    How can the company dispatch replacement crew early? The fog does not announce when it is going to lift. And it takes a 4.5 hour flight for the crew to get over, and they are still restricted by the timing and availability of flights going to TPE. It is CNY eve after all, where flights within asia is very hard to secure seats on.


    • How not to exacerbate a bad situation into worse by asking passengers to board and then telling them to disembark; due to a foreseeable crew problem.
    Scoot does not schedule boarding, push off and take off times at any airport. Airport air traffic control does it. Even the people who check you in at the counter, the people who scan your tickets at the gate, are not scoot employees but employees of the airport. You need to read what some of the folks have been saying in the posts earlier. TPE says ok, we secured a gate for you now... board... So TPE staff board the folks into the scoot aircraft. Then the aircraft wait wait wait to push off and take off. When the call to take off did not come, and it is apparent that the flight time will exceed the regulation max working hours, Scoot pilots by rule have to report. And TPE will call off the flight and ask them to de-plane.

    Air travel industry is ruled by a lot of regulations. No one in the plane can happy happy say no problem, lets fly. They are restricted by how the airport handles the traffic, and they are restricted by thousands of rules on what they are supposed to do or not do. The sooner you get that into your head, the better you can understand the whole issue.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 6th February 2014 at 10:34 PM.

  7. #67

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    Even SIA only have 1 set of stand by cabin crew in New York to be called up for USA and Europe disruption.
    Canon 30D, G11, 50 f1.8II, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f2.8L IS, EX580II

  8. #68
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    In air plane travel, only 1 thing matters. Safety. You want to come back alive from the flight. All the rest is chaff. [... *snipped*...]
    Your point being...? Reading through all your postings made about the topic you fail to nail your point. Instead, lots of assumptions, suspicions, allegations and whatnot. Whenever a point is answered with logic, reason and existing regulations you fork out some new stuffs - but for what reason actually?
    EOS

  9. #69

    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Your point being...? Reading through all your postings made about the topic you fail to nail your point. Instead, lots of assumptions, suspicions, allegations and whatnot. Whenever a point is answered with logic, reason and existing regulations you fork out some new stuffs - but for what reason actually?
    Uncle Ricohflex exists solely for the purpose to be given a smackdown in knowledge from others?


  10. #70
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Your point being...? Reading through all your postings made about the topic you fail to nail your point. Instead, lots of assumptions, suspicions, allegations and whatnot. Whenever a point is answered with logic, reason and existing regulations you fork out some new stuffs - but for what reason actually?
    Many conceited and self-assertive personality types here living in the shadows of their own stubborn world.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 7th February 2014 at 12:18 AM.
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  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by airfins View Post
    Even SIA only have 1 set of stand by cabin crew in New York to be called up for USA and Europe disruption.
    SIA has standby crew on every continent, that is due to its entensive network. Disruption is costly to the airline.

  12. #72

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    I hope as passengers, we can appreciate that rules and regulations are placed in the safety of the passengers as well.

  13. #73
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post
    I hope as passengers, we can appreciate that rules and regulations are placed in the safety of the passengers as well.
    Sometimes it is not easy. I got delayed at the security checks at JFK, NY (sharing the check facilities with the flight next door to India with lots of people who never bothered to read the instructions for security check ) and in the end three other passengers and me I missed the gate closing by 2 minutes. Now, instead of opening the gate for 2 minutes and let us board the fight (causing maybe a delay of 10min overall) the ground crew initiated the procedure 'Unload luggage for no show passengers', resulting in 40 minutes delay for the flight and us having to spend another night in NY, including re-booking the flight to next day.
    It is difficult to understand the logic and sense here ...
    EOS

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post
    SIA has standby crew on every continent, that is due to its entensive network. Disruption is costly to the airline.
    That's for Tech crew only , cabin crew is only left with NY now, the spirit of cost cutting and KPI use to have London, Taipei, LA & NY for 345 but all gone now.
    Canon 30D, G11, 50 f1.8II, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f2.8L IS, EX580II

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post

    +1 best to buy travel insurance if flying budget.

    I was flying China Eastern to Shanghai once and the flight was delayed then cancelled due to mechanical issue. Waited in the airport from 8am till 4pm. Those with connecting flights were moved to a flight at 4:30pm. The rest (me and my family included) were transferred to Orchard hotel to rest, giving us an awesome room, as well as a free buffet dinner ($80++ per pax value). We were picked up at 11:30pm for the 1am flight and to our surprise, are compensated $150 per pax on top of what we already received.

    For some budget airline, they don't give a damn. Just ask you to apply for refund, end of story. Happened to me as well. Scoot already did good by issuing meal voucher and reassigning folks to the next flights. Other budget airlines may not be as helpful.

    Always buy good travel insurance when flying budget.
    What travel insurance would you recommend, dailo?

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