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Thread: Want to scoot off also cannot.

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    What is the problem?

    The plane was not delayed because of fog.

    Passengers scheduled to fly to Singapore on a 4 am Scoot flight were infuriated and staged a protest when they were told their plane could not take off until 5 pm, because of a crew issue.
    The plane crew refused to work and fly off at 4am. Nothing to do with the fog. Maybe the crew were not happy with their CNY angpow given by Scoot.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    What is the problem? The plane was not delayed because of fog. The plane crew refused to work and fly off at 4am. Nothing to do with the fog. Maybe the crew were not happy with their CNY angpow given by Scoot.
    And the crew issue is?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    What is the problem?

    The plane was not delayed because of fog.



    The plane crew refused to work and fly off at 4am. Nothing to do with the fog. Maybe the crew were not happy with their CNY angpow given by Scoot.
    The fog delayed the flight, to a point where the crew exceeded the max number of hours they are allowed to work. This is aviation regulation. So they had to fly in another crew.

    What do you expect them to do? borrow some crew from another airline?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    What is the problem?

    The plane was not delayed because of fog.

    The plane crew refused to work and fly off at 4am. Nothing to do with the fog. Maybe the crew were not happy with their CNY angpow given by Scoot.
    Where is the source for your allegations?

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    er... I don't think so if this news report is accurate.

    Heavy fog forced Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport to close for several hours starting at 1 am last Thursday.
    12 arriving flights had to be diverted to other airports -- eight to Kaohsiung, two to Hong Kong, one to Japan and one to Macau, according to the Central News Agency.
    Many departing flights were delayed until after 6 am, when the airport was reopened, CNA reported, adding about 3,000 passengers were affected by the delays.
    Passengers scheduled to fly to Singapore on a 4 am Scoot flight were infuriated and staged a protest when they were told their plane could not take off until 5 pm, because of a crew issue.
    The airport flight departure was delayed by the fog from 1am till 6am. After 6am when the fog lifted, many other airlines flew their planes and departed from the airport.

    But the Scoot plane, which was supposed to fly at 4am, did not fly off at 6am after the fog lifted.

    The passengers were only told to board the plane at 9am.

    Presuming the airport control tower gave them permission to take off, the plane did not take off at 9am with all passengers on board, when it could have done so.

    The crew purposely let the plane sit on the tarmac with full passenger load till 10am, refusing to take off from the runway.

    Once past 10am, the crew announced that they had gone past the mark which they could officially refuse to work.
    Then they made the Scoot company fly in another crew which took a lot of time, hence delay till 5pm.

    Perhaps the Scoot flight crew was purposely screwing the company management over pay matters and they did not care how the passengers were inconvenienced.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 5th February 2014 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    er... I don't think so if this news report is accurate.
    The airport flight departure was delayed by the fog from 1am till 6am. After 6am when the fog lifted, many other airlines flew their planes and departed from the airport.
    But the Scoot plane, which was supposed to fly at 4am, did not fly off at 6am after the fog lifted.
    The passengers were only told to board the plane at 9am.
    Presuming the airport control tower gave them permission to take off, the plane did not take off at 9am with all passengers on board, when it could have done so.
    The crew purposely let the plane sit on the tarmac with full passenger load till 10am, refusing to take off from the runway.

    Once past 10am, the crew announced that they had gone past the mark which they could officially refuse to work.
    Then they made the Scoot company fly in another crew which took a lot of time, hence delay till 5pm.
    Perhaps the Scoot flight crew was purposely screwing the company management over pay matters and they did not care how the passengers were inconvenienced.
    Perhaps, maybe, presuming.. Is there anything definitive in your posting? What is your point actually?
    Let me add another one: Maybe the crew learned a thing or two from some bus captains?
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    er... I don't think so if this news report is accurate.



    The airport flight departure was delayed by the fog from 1am till 6am. After 6am when the fog lifted, many other airlines flew their planes and departed from the airport.

    But the Scoot plane, which was supposed to fly at 4am, did not fly off at 6am after the fog lifted.

    The passengers were only told to board the plane at 9am.

    Presuming the airport control tower gave them permission to take off, the plane did not take off at 9am with all passengers on board, when it could have done so.

    The crew purposely let the plane sit on the tarmac with full passenger load till 10am, refusing to take off from the runway.

    Once past 10am, the crew announced that they had gone past the mark which they could officially refuse to work.
    Then they made the Scoot company fly in another crew which took a lot of time, hence delay till 5pm.

    Perhaps the Scoot flight crew was purposely screwing the company management over pay matters and they did not care how the passengers were inconvenienced.
    If you have ever been stuck at an airport that was closed for fog or any other delay, you will know that even after the fog has lifted, all the scheduling for the take offs will be totally screwed up with planes coming in, with a long long queue of flights trying to secure a gate to board, and an even longer queue waiting to push off and take off. It is not as simple as you think it is.

    I was once stuck in Hangzhou airport due to heavy fog, after the fog lifted, it took another 5 hours before we finally got to fly. Some flights got bumped to the next day.

    It is not like a bus station where every bus can leave as and when.

    And the crew purposely let plane sit? What nonsense. Air traffic Control Tower controls all the traffic. Not up to crew to say fly or no fly.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 5th February 2014 at 11:52 PM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    er... I don't think so if this news report is accurate.



    The airport flight departure was delayed by the fog from 1am till 6am. After 6am when the fog lifted, many other airlines flew their planes and departed from the airport.

    But the Scoot plane, which was supposed to fly at 4am, did not fly off at 6am after the fog lifted.

    The passengers were only told to board the plane at 9am.

    Presuming the airport control tower gave them permission to take off, the plane did not take off at 9am with all passengers on board, when it could have done so.

    The crew purposely let the plane sit on the tarmac with full passenger load till 10am, refusing to take off from the runway.

    Once past 10am, the crew announced that they had gone past the mark which they could officially refuse to work.
    Then they made the Scoot company fly in another crew which took a lot of time, hence delay till 5pm.

    Perhaps the Scoot flight crew was purposely screwing the company management over pay matters and they did not care how the passengers were inconvenienced.
    didn't it cross your mind that ther airlines could have been scheduled to fly later than 4AM? must all flights only take off at 4AM?

    if there was a flight scheduled for later, it could have priority to fly off first since the crew hadn't reached the limit.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post

    If you have ever been stuck at an airport that was closed for fog or any other delay, you will know that even after the fog has lifted, all the scheduling for the take offs will be totally screwed up with planes coming in, with a long long queue of flights trying to secure a gate to board, and an even longer queue waiting to push off and take off. It is not as simple as you think it is.

    I was once stuck in Hangzhou airport due to heavy fog, after the fog lifted, it took another 5 hours before we finally got to fly. Some flights got bumped to the next day.

    It is not like a bus station where every bus can leave as and when.

    And the crew purposely let plane sit? What nonsense. Air traffic Control Tower controls all the traffic. Not up to crew to say fly or no fly.
    I am impressed with your level of understanding on the subject.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Ok. Don't scold me for asking this. I am curious with all the modern radar and whatever aviation technologies available. Are planes not able to take off safely without clear sight of the runway? I can understand about landing but taking off should be possible?

    I once took off in a Fokker aircraft in foggy condition. The flight was delayed for 2-3 hours but took off when it is less foggy but has not cleared up completely.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    Ok. Don't scold me for asking this. I am curious with all the modern radar and whatever aviation technologies available. Are planes not able to take off safely without clear sight of the runway? I can understand about landing but taking off should be possible?

    I once took off in a Fokker aircraft in foggy condition. The flight was delayed for 2-3 hours but took off when it is less foggy but has not cleared up completely.
    100% visibility is not required. But there are many many safety regulations in place on what is allowed or not. Better safe than sorry, especially when it comes to other people's lives.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post
    I am impressed with your level of understanding on the subject.
    It is just basic common knowledge if one has flown enough. Not hard to understand too, limited runways, limited gates, many planes coming in and waiting to go out...

  13. #53

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    The so called Low Visibility Operations requires the followings
    1. Airport and runway to be equipped with a navigational aid of higher precision to guide aircraft to the runway. (Not all airport has this facilities)
    2. Aircraft equipped with precision tracking and autoland system.
    3. Crew to be trained and kept current.

    Takeoff requires at least 200meters of visibilty while landing only requires 50. Imagine doing takeoff and landing at 250-300km/hr with those visibility. Not to mention while at night.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    aviation guy

    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post
    The so called Low Visibility Operations requires the followings
    1. Airport and runway to be equipped with a navigational aid of higher precision to guide aircraft to the runway. (Not all airport has this facilities)
    2. Aircraft equipped with precision tracking and autoland system.
    3. Crew to be trained and kept current.

    Takeoff requires at least 200meters of visibilty while landing only requires 50. Imagine doing takeoff and landing at 250-300km/hr with those visibility. Not to mention while at night.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post
    The so called Low Visibility Operations requires the followings
    1. Airport and runway to be equipped with a navigational aid of higher precision to guide aircraft to the runway. (Not all airport has this facilities)
    2. Aircraft equipped with precision tracking and autoland system.
    3. Crew to be trained and kept current.

    Takeoff requires at least 200meters of visibilty while landing only requires 50. Imagine doing takeoff and landing at 250-300km/hr with those visibility. Not to mention while at night.
    Is this the so called ILS?

  16. #56

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    Heavy fog will also affect ground vehicle movement and affect the refilling trucks, cargo loader and meal catering truck etc. Crew have to follow strictly to the Aviation laws governing the flight time limitation to cabin crew and pilot, if this is not follow the Airline licence to operate will be revoke.

    If the max hours allowed is 18 hrs and the flight time is 14hrs, crew who reported for flt 2 hrs before schedule departure time can only allow a delay of 2 hrs on ground. More then that and they will be step down and a new set of crew will be activated. If this happens oversea a new set of crew will take the next avaliable flight to fly in. If they fly in and operate straight away their reporting time and travelling time is consider in the calculation of the flight time limitation. This left time with little time to operate unless it's a very short flight. Many a time this is not very possible as the airport will be close for arrival, last miniute tickets not avaliable or the next scoot flight Ex Sin could be many hours later or even on the next day. Crew can still be send to arrival at the nearest airport not affected by the closure of the situation an travel by bus to take over the grounded crew but this further reduce the remaining working allow by the regulations.

    Crew do do have the liberty to chose to go or not to go, refuse to operate equal to a strike and everyone knows what the consequence is in Singapore.

    When delays happens most of the decision will be handed over to the the Airline command center to make the decision on what the next step will be.

    A further note to add, passenger cannot disembark due to immigration requirements or the aircraft might be clear to take off in a short notice. No sound mind crew will want to keep a plane full of anxious and angry passengers in the plane with them for any amount of time. Passengers can chose to off load them self and go home if the plane is at the aero bridge and they are from the passport holder of the affected airport if off loading of their check in cargo bags are feasible.

    It's a complicating process when delays occurs due to the many constraints and variable factors. The airline will make the decision according to the regulation, ground support avaliable and of course the cost factor.
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  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post

    Is this the so called ILS?
    Yes it is. Most International Airport are equipped with this guidance system. In busier airport that are prone to fog or haze, they may enhance this further to a Category2 or Category3 ILS, which is more accurate, stable and reliable.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.




    Quote Originally Posted by airfins View Post
    Heavy fog will also affect ground vehicle movement and affect the refilling trucks, cargo loader and meal catering truck etc. Crew have to follow strictly to the Aviation laws governing the flight time limitation to cabin crew and pilot, if this is not follow the Airline licence to operate will be revoke.

    If the max hours allowed is 18 hrs and the flight time is 14hrs, crew who reported for flt 2 hrs before schedule departure time can only allow a delay of 2 hrs on ground. More then that and they will be step down and a new set of crew will be activated. If this happens oversea a new set of crew will take the next avaliable flight to fly in. If they fly in and operate straight away their reporting time and travelling time is consider in the calculation of the flight time limitation. This left time with little time to operate unless it's a very short flight. Many a time this is not very possible as the airport will be close for arrival, last miniute tickets not avaliable or the next scoot flight Ex Sin could be many hours later or even on the next day. Crew can still be send to arrival at the nearest airport not affected by the closure of the situation an travel by bus to take over the grounded crew but this further reduce the remaining working allow by the regulations.

    Crew do do have the liberty to chose to go or not to go, refuse to operate equal to a strike and everyone knows what the consequence is in Singapore.

    When delays happens most of the decision will be handed over to the the Airline command center to make the decision on what the next step will be.

    A further note to add, passenger cannot disembark due to immigration requirements or the aircraft might be clear to take off in a short notice. No sound mind crew will want to keep a plane full of anxious and angry passengers in the plane with them for any amount of time. Passengers can chose to off load them self and go home if the plane is at the aero bridge and they are from the passport holder of the affected airport if off loading of their check in cargo bags are feasible.

    It's a complicating process when delays occurs due to the many constraints and variable factors. The airline will make the decision according to the regulation, ground support avaliable and of course the cost factor.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by -120- View Post

    Yes it is. Most International Airport are equipped with this guidance system. In busier airport that are prone to fog or haze, they may enhance this further to a Category2 or Category3 ILS, which is more accurate, stable and reliable.
    Thanks for your insights!

  20. #60

    Default Re: Want to scoot off also cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You are actually very lucky with 2 hours spent in T1. One time, I had to spend the night at KLCCT airport. and the nearby tunes hotel was full.
    KLCC should be quite okay, clean and new right? T1 at night is full of cleaning and maintenance activities, huge army of cleaners are out in force. Cannot sleep well at all with all those noises.

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