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Thread: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C / m43 ??

  1. #101
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Another voice echos in my head...

    Ok, I have an idea.

    I will buy an A7, and then buy a Metabones Canon EF to Sony E-Mount Smart Adapter III, and then start building my lens collection with FF lens from Canon, or 3rd party lenses with Canon mount.

    I'm not gonna ask whether it's right or wrong, since there's no right or wrong... But I'm asking this...

    Is this a wise choice? If I have plan to dive into Canon FF system in the future.

    I think that in this way (compare to M4/3), I can get a better IQ, more DOF, blah blah blah... while sacrifice a little bit of speed (AF), portability (weight of FF lenses).

    What do you guys think??

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Another voice echos in my head...

    Ok, I have an idea.

    I will buy an A7, and then buy a Metabones Canon EF to Sony E-Mount Smart Adapter III, and then start building my lens collection with FF lens from Canon, or 3rd party lenses with Canon mount.

    I'm not gonna ask whether it's right or wrong, since there's no right or wrong... But I'm asking this...

    Is this a wise choice? If I have plan to dive into Canon FF system in the future.

    I think that in this way (compare to M4/3), I can get a better IQ, more DOF, blah blah blah... while sacrifice a little bit of speed (AF), portability (weight of FF lenses).

    What do you guys think??
    If u buy a7 plus adapter, just to START using canon glass, u might as well buy a 6D
    hi

  3. #103
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by silvermoon1407 View Post
    If u buy a7 plus adapter, just to START using canon glass, u might as well buy a 6D
    Hmm... true also... I shall check their size and weight, see how different between these 2

    I really wish for a perfect setting here (Who doesnt? LOL)
    FF mirrorless + good range of lenses

    Currently my dilemma is that A7 is the FF mirrorless I've wished for, but the lens choice just... Unlike some of the people around the forum, I don't own a single lens from any brand, if I were to start with Sony, it's kind of hard for me to dive into the system with the fact that there's no decent native zoom lens (I read that the kit 28-70mm performance is "acceptable") to go with the camera... Like you said, if I were to choose to use an adapter, might as I start with a FF body of that brand.

    While Olympus came up with the amazing 12-40mm Pro lens, they offered it together with the equally amazing OMD series.

    You guys should have know that I'm messing around with myself, but I really can't help it... (I think you guys can understand, that there's always a "devil" in your head, whispering to you no matter what you choose, hahaha...)

    Thanks you man, for the "bull-eye" comment!!

  4. #104

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    Honestly it doesn't matter what you get because at the end of the day time spent deciding between which to get is time you could've spent shooting and enjoying photography.

  5. #105

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Agreed with derrickder.

    All camera is capable to getting good image, it's the photographer and not the camera factor. GO grab one within your budget quickly rather than worrying. All camera don't last as long as there is technology. We wouldn't know what's our limitation unless we keep on shooting.

    I still enjoy shooting with my double AA PnS camera though. :P

    Cheers!

  6. #106

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    I have bought A7 3 weeks ago and sold my APC camera. Its great camera with its size and weight. Use to carry 5 kg of load on the shoulder when using DSLR. I have Nex 5R to go with as well which you can consider. Every time i go out, i will bring to 2 camera with me which lighter than my DLSR. Nex 5R can do self portrait. I great time with my wife taking photo together using Nex 5R. No matter what kind of camera you buy, you will not able to have a couple photo unless you set up tripod just to take 1 photo or asking someone to take for you which you may not feel comfortable to let someone to handle it especially when you are oversea. If you like to take own family with you in the photo, you will appreciate such cameras.

  7. #107
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    I will buy an A7, and then buy a Metabones Canon EF to Sony E-Mount Smart Adapter III, and then start building my lens collection with FF lens from Canon, or 3rd party lenses with Canon mount.
    I personally don't understand any choice made to do this, because you are saving the weight on the A7 body, but you get heavy FF lenses. Usually people will tend to pair A7 body with rangefinder lenses rather than full-fledged FF lenses. If you intend to do this, then my opinion is that you might as well get 6D. With a full bag of FF lenses the incremental weight and space involved is nominal.

    You also have to decide how much DOF you want. Do you really need shallow DOF? I've met a lot of people who take travel photos of themselves and their family (they're not really hobbyists) who give feedback that they tried the larger sensor cameras I recommended and they don't like the fact that the background is not sharp when they use those larger sensors. Everyone's needs are different.

    What you need to do is to decide on your needs. Instead of sitting around, talking and talking. In the end you can plan and plan and plan and ask around and get 8,001 opinions, buy the camera and hate it. That's a fact of life. If it was so simple to make a right decision everytime it was available we would all have one path in life.

    Also - M4/3 has a smaller sensor but it doesn't mean that shallow DOF is not possible. It's just -comparatively- less.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 11th March 2014 at 03:13 PM.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    I almost knew nothing about photography, and never used DSLR before, since I decided to buy a DSLR for travel, it only took me 3 days to research and bought Nikon D610 in end Feb, used it for 3 weeks, no regret, it's a great entry level FF camera. Mirrorless will never replace DSLR, you will only have very limited lenses.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbug View Post
    I almost knew nothing about photography, and never used DSLR before, since I decided to buy a DSLR for travel, it only took me 3 days to research and bought Nikon D610 in end Feb, used it for 3 weeks, no regret, it's a great entry level FF camera. Mirrorless will never replace DSLR, you will only have very limited lenses.
    Dear nightbug , pls kindly do a search on the range of lenses available for Mirrorless in Olympus , Panasonic , Fuji, Sony brands and then ponder on whether your comment on Mirrorless having very limited lenses is justified

  10. #110
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by nightbug View Post
    I almost knew nothing about photography, and never used DSLR before, since I decided to buy a DSLR for travel, it only took me 3 days to research and bought Nikon D610 in end Feb, used it for 3 weeks, no regret, it's a great entry level FF camera. Mirrorless will never replace DSLR, you will only have very limited lenses.
    So far, after the long research and comments, I really think mirrorless are not here to replace DSLR. I think mirrorless camera is in fact an "option" for photographer, just like those P&S cameras. I think you can take it like all the options of car nowadays. Why there are vehicles like van, lorry, sedan, 2 seater, coupe, sports car, etc...? They all are basically a box with 4 wheels than you drive from point A to B. But... it all comes down to "purpose" of the vehicle.

    After all these time, I came to realize what I really need, and what I'm going to choose. I don't really need the camera for work, and it's just a hobby, like badminton to me. Which comes to the next point, investment.

    I'm not gonna pay that as much as money for a FF DSLR and have to bear with the weight (including lenses) when I go out for vacation with my wife and family. Yes, you may say the IQ, performance, etc... But mirrorless camera has mature over the years, I seriously checked many photos from Canon 6D & 70D, Nikon D610 and D7100, Sony A99, A77 and even A7 and NEX 7, Olympus OMD series, Panasonic GX7, Fujiflm X-series. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a Graphic Designer with keen eyes, and I can really spots the difference among photos from those cameras. BUT... It's not like I'm not making money with photography, I just want to have some nice looking photos for myself and my wife. I know "more is better", but I wish I have a big enough bank account that allow me to make such comment

    As for the "limited lenses", like what KeithWee said, search it a little bit on the brand websites, you can easily find out the lens system from Olympus and Panasonic, easily covered most of people's need. From 9mm, all the way to 300mm (18-600mm for 35mm equivalent), Olympus and Panasonic had you covered, what more do you need? Prime? Their prime lenses are even more excellent!!

    I'm glad you've settled down on the D610, and started to enjoy your camera, unlike me... still waiting and waiting... (For money of course hahaha...)

    Well... Anyway... This is not to flame you back or anything offensive... Hope you understand I'm just explaining my situation, and maybe just to correct your statement a little bit (Just tiny little bit, no offence... REALLY)

    Thank you for your time!! Have a nice day!!

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbug View Post
    I almost knew nothing about photography, and never used DSLR before, since I decided to buy a DSLR for travel, it only took me 3 days to research and bought Nikon D610 in end Feb, used it for 3 weeks, no regret, it's a great entry level FF camera. Mirrorless will never replace DSLR, you will only have very limited lenses.
    A nikon 1 can use its native lenses plus all the lenses that your D610 can use. What about the other way around?
    hi

  12. #112

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    Not just lenses. Also consider the whole system or ecosystem.

    So far the flash unit for m4/3 has not met my requirement for events. I am still using the Nikon sb910 with my DSLR
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  13. #113
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    So far, after the long research and comments, I really think mirrorless are not here to replace DSLR. I think mirrorless camera is in fact an "option" for photographer, just like those P&S cameras. I think you can take it like all the options of car nowadays. Why there are vehicles like van, lorry, sedan, 2 seater, coupe, sports car, etc...? They all are basically a box with 4 wheels than you drive from point A to B. But... it all comes down to "purpose" of the vehicle.

    After all these time, I came to realize what I really need, and what I'm going to choose. I don't really need the camera for work, and it's just a hobby, like badminton to me. Which comes to the next point, investment.

    I'm not gonna pay that as much as money for a FF DSLR and have to bear with the weight (including lenses) when I go out for vacation with my wife and family. Yes, you may say the IQ, performance, etc... But mirrorless camera has mature over the years, I seriously checked many photos from Canon 6D & 70D, Nikon D610 and D7100, Sony A99, A77 and even A7 and NEX 7, Olympus OMD series, Panasonic GX7, Fujiflm X-series. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a Graphic Designer with keen eyes, and I can really spots the difference among photos from those cameras. BUT... It's not like I'm not making money with photography, I just want to have some nice looking photos for myself and my wife. I know "more is better", but I wish I have a big enough bank account that allow me to make such comment

    As for the "limited lenses", like what KeithWee said, search it a little bit on the brand websites, you can easily find out the lens system from Olympus and Panasonic, easily covered most of people's need. From 9mm, all the way to 300mm (18-600mm for 35mm equivalent), Olympus and Panasonic had you covered, what more do you need? Prime? Their prime lenses are even more excellent!!

    I'm glad you've settled down on the D610, and started to enjoy your camera, unlike me... still waiting and waiting... (For money of course hahaha...)

    Well... Anyway... This is not to flame you back or anything offensive... Hope you understand I'm just explaining my situation, and maybe just to correct your statement a little bit (Just tiny little bit, no offence... REALLY)

    Thank you for your time!! Have a nice day!!
    After seeing your posts. I think you should just get a mirrorless system.

    At this point, I think the m43 is the most interesting among all the mirrorless offerings. You get a lot of choices with native lenses, from TWO brands somemore. And focal lengths not available with other mirrorless systems like 7mm (14mm FOV). A lot of stuff are also already made for m43 systems, like accessories and lens adapters.

    One thing too, m43 mirrorless cams are truly portable, compared to APS-C mirrorless cams.

  14. #114
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    Not just lenses. Also consider the whole system or ecosystem.

    So far the flash unit for m4/3 has not met my requirement for events. I am still using the Nikon sb910 with my DSLR
    For hobby and family use, and for professional use, different la.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Well, thanks for the comments on top, I will not reply one by one.
    During my 3 days research, I only checked the info for 3 brands, Canon, Nikon and Sony. No offense, I'm not that interested to buy other brands cameras. I did consider whether to buy a mirroless or dSLR, as I have mentioned that I just need a camera for travel purpose, to record the beautiful sceneries along the way. My compact camera definitely will not give me wonderful pictures. The weight of mirrorless camera is much lighter, and much more cheaper, is a very good option to suit my purpose, why I didn't buy? I checked Nikon and Sony websites for Nikon 1 and nEX series, it does not mentioned other lenses except the kit lens, at least I didn't see. I even went to courts to feel the Nikon aW1 on hand, the water and shock resistance is very attractive to me. But consider the future upgrade, the lenses and other easily available accessories, I rather buy a FF camera at beginning rather than upgrade step by step, I have no intension to hold too many cameras, incompatible lenses and accessories on hand, maybe it doesn't make sense to you, anyway, that's what I thought.

  16. #116
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by nightbug View Post
    Well, thanks for the comments on top, I will not reply one by one.
    During my 3 days research, I only checked the info for 3 brands, Canon, Nikon and Sony. No offense, I'm not that interested to buy other brands cameras. I did consider whether to buy a mirroless or dSLR, as I have mentioned that I just need a camera for travel purpose, to record the beautiful sceneries along the way. My compact camera definitely will not give me wonderful pictures. The weight of mirrorless camera is much lighter, and much more cheaper, is a very good option to suit my purpose, why I didn't buy? I checked Nikon and Sony websites for Nikon 1 and nEX series, it does not mentioned other lenses except the kit lens, at least I didn't see. I even went to courts to feel the Nikon aW1 on hand, the water and shock resistance is very attractive to me. But consider the future upgrade, the lenses and other easily available accessories, I rather buy a FF camera at beginning rather than upgrade step by step, I have no intension to hold too many cameras, incompatible lenses and accessories on hand, maybe it doesn't make sense to you, anyway, that's what I thought.
    Nikon 1 system have quite a number of lenses available actually:
    10-30VR (kit)
    11-27.5 (slim profile standard zoom)
    30-110VR telezoom
    10-100VR super zoom
    6.7-13VR UWA zoom (equiv 18-35mm)
    10/2.8 wide prime (27mm equiv)
    18.5/1.8 normal prime (50mm equiv)
    32/1.2 portrait prime (85mm equiv)
    70-300VR super-tele zoom (190-810mm equiv)

    then you have the AW lenses
    AW 11-27.5 kit zoom
    AW 10/2.8 wide prime

    Looks like a huge range covered...

    Do you need all your lenses to be waterproofed?
    Last edited by daredevil123; 23rd March 2014 at 12:40 AM.

  17. #117

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    Every tough choice if u only want 1 system, good in image quality but needs portability for travel.

    For me, I think Olympus or Panasonic micro4/3 is most suitable. Panasonic GM1 is most portable yet affordable. Or can get Olympus EM5 for weatherproof and 5-axis stabiliser. Olympus jpeg colours appeals to many people. But the menu may not be as user friendly though it has deep and useful settings.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post

    Nikon 1 system have quite a number of lenses available actually:
    10-30VR (kit)
    11-27.5 (slim profile standard zoom)
    30-110VR telezoom
    10-100VR super zoom
    6.7-13VR UWA zoom (equiv 18-35mm)
    10/2.8 wide prime (27mm equiv)
    18.5/1.8 normal prime (50mm equiv)
    32/1.2 portrait prime (85mm equiv)
    70-300VR super-tele zoom (190-810mm equiv)

    then you have the AW lenses
    AW 11-27.5 kit zoom
    AW 10/2.8 wide prime

    Looks like a huge range covered...

    Do you need all your lenses to be waterproofed?
    Nikon 1 image quality is so compromised and with limited lenses. Even I have a few Nikon dslr lenses also won't by it. Do they have many fast lenses?
    Last edited by sin77; 23rd March 2014 at 07:51 AM.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  19. #119
    Moderator keithwee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbug View Post
    Well, thanks for the comments on top, I will not reply one by one. During my 3 days research, I only checked the info for 3 brands, Canon, Nikon and Sony. No offense, I'm not that interested to buy other brands cameras. I did consider whether to buy a mirroless or dSLR, as I have mentioned that I just need a camera for travel purpose, to record the beautiful sceneries along the way. My compact camera definitely will not give me wonderful pictures. The weight of mirrorless camera is much lighter, and much more cheaper, is a very good option to suit my purpose, why I didn't buy? I checked Nikon and Sony websites for Nikon 1 and nEX series, it does not mentioned other lenses except the kit lens, at least I didn't see. I even went to courts to feel the Nikon aW1 on hand, the water and shock resistance is very attractive to me. But consider the future upgrade, the lenses and other easily available accessories, I rather buy a FF camera at beginning rather than upgrade step by step, I have no intension to hold too many cameras, incompatible lenses and accessories on hand, maybe it doesn't make sense to you, anyway, that's what I thought.
    Then u should have been clearer when u stated limited lens offerings in Mirrorless, bro.

    Clearer in that u only looked at 3 brands over 3 days and only interested in Canon, Nikon and Sony. Canon and Nikon are the newer members to Mirrorless but I guess leaning towards certain brands is personal & not always logical. No offense , but in an open forum newbies section , comments of a generalizing nature might mislead someone.

    There is no fault & definitely one's right in leaning towards a type of camera (in your case FF) so if will be FF.

    And anyway, the Nikon Mirrorless though not top of the range still boasts at least 10 lenses & quite a few bodies.

    Enjoy your FF setup i'm sure it will serve u well for a long time.
    Last edited by keithwee; 23rd March 2014 at 11:04 AM.

  20. #120
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    Nikon 1 image quality is so compromised and with limited lenses. Even I have a few Nikon dslr lenses also won't by it. Do they have many fast lenses?
    I have been using it for a while. I do not find the image quality compromised. At the time I got the V1, it compared more favorably to the EP-L2 (which I have used and tested for 1 week). And I am still using the V1 today. I guess it comes down to the user behind the camera. Question is, have you used one? If not, how did you come to the conclusion the IQ is "so compromised"?


    The F1.8, F1.2 and F2.8 primes are listed there. If you do not think they are fast, I wonder what fast means for you.

    Some sample pics from my "IQ so compromised" V1:

    Landscape



    shot handheld too...


    Low light





    In the end, people talk so much about what is good and not good, but even with the best equipment, many shoot crappy pictures.

    Back in the days of D70 and 300D, where ISO 800 is almost unusable, and resolution is 6MP only. Many photographers are still able to take breathtaking images even by today's standards.

    In the end, the person behind the camera matters. And the image is all that matters. Period.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 23rd March 2014 at 12:41 PM.

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