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Thread: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C / m43 ??

  1. #81
    Member bahnoo's Avatar
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    Actually depend on yourself.. if for hobby and on budget then go for APS-C.

    Spend more on the lens.

    Be it a aps-c or ff still can take good pic

    If u intend traveling outside country then think whether a dslr is what you want. As it going to heavy especially going w ur wife.
    Fuji X-T1, Fuji XF 60mm Macro, Fuji Extension Tube

  2. #82
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by khookhuc View Post
    Hi brother and sister.
    Just buy the canon eos M kit2, it really good, AF ok.iQ ok,light weight,iso also ok.the kit len 22mm F2 very sharp.with the adaptor,you can mount sigma 17-50 F2.8.small body big len look very style,total cost me $ 1100.rememder to buy extra battery.enjoy.
    Glad you enjoyed it!!! Have fun!!!

  3. #83
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by one eye jack View Post
    Hey,don't go kuniang ( mushy) on us o.k.? This is manly stuff.
    How about Bro fist?

  4. #84
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by bahnoo View Post
    Actually depend on yourself.. if for hobby and on budget then go for APS-C.

    Spend more on the lens.

    Be it a aps-c or ff still can take good pic

    If u intend traveling outside country then think whether a dslr is what you want. As it going to heavy especially going w ur wife.
    This is why I still hesitate to go for a full body DSLR. I actually intend to use the camera for 70% hobby and 30% work.

    As for travel, my wife did say the same thing. If only i have to budget to go for the Sony A7... kind of best of both world hahaha...

    Thank you!!!

  5. #85
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    LOL i just visited the Sony A7 tread, kena poison kao kao!!!!

    And the price!!! I thought they are very expensive!!! thought they are not cheap either... But at least still within my budget!

    Might take a look on the A7 and A7r and see how they feel.

  6. #86
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Not sure if this had been mentioned before (5 pages... I didn't read every single thread), I would advise that you rent out those cameras that you find okay with you and see which one you like best. For me... I will jump straight into getting a full frame if I would go all over again... but that is because of my shooting style and genre which I find fullframe will be a better choice for me.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  7. #87

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Can compare the canon eosM kit len 22mmf2.0 at dxomark vs carl zeiss 50mm f1.4. Light weight with eosM body,carry whole day no problem

  8. #88

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Hi guys!! I just joined the forum recently, and the amount of information just WOW

    However, opinion still need from those who is much experience, and I'm humbly asking you guys to teach me a little bit of something

    The question is, Full Frame or APS-C??

    Let me introduce myself a little bit. I'm a graphic designer, for about 5 years now. I've dealing with photography for quite a while, whether it's work or spare time hobby. However, I've yet to own a DSLR. I've been using others' camera (well... I didnt really earn much for the last few years... I've been saving for wedding and stuffs (Just got married last year hehehe))

    My experience with camera are mostly with P&S camera (I actually own a Canon PowerShot SX230), Handphone (Well... Not a bad and cheap alternative choice for me... I do have a Flickr account, with some photos shot with a HTC Touch Diamond 2 hehehe...), DSLR (The company I'm currently work for, they organize a lot of those events and dinners, and as the graphic designer, I also play a part as their photographer. I use company's Nikon (really forgot what model) then replaced by Sony A58, if I remembered correctly)

    FINALLY, I manage to save up and decided to buy myself a DSLR, MUST OWN ONE!!!

    So here's what I think...

    For my first DSLR, I hope for something that can lasts for 1-3 years before another upgrade is needed, and I wish to used it for maybe 70% hobby and 30% work. There are so many things I wanna try (Light painting, macro photography, a little bit Video Shooting, etc) and I want to build up my portfolio, so that I can eventually step into real business world in the future (Event photography, Studio, etc)

    Currently there are 4 cameras on my wish list, 2 FF, and 2 APS-C, being...
    Nikon D610 & Canon 6D (FF), Nikon D7100 & Canon 70D (APS-C)

    One of my friend recommended me the Nikon D700, and I'm quite impress with the reviews. If I were to go for it, that means 2nd hand.

    And everything still come down to the most important thing... BUDGET... Well, I can't really shell out much, as you can see my choices, being either it's entry FF, or APS-C... I can say somewhere around 3,000 SGD, with or without lens. I'm willing to shell out more for lenses if I were to go for a FF DSLR.

    The main question is which camera will last longer before I got hit by the so called "limitation", and another upgrade is needed. I've been digging around for reviews, photos, and friends' opinions. As you would already know, some says this and some says that, there was never a very decisive opinion that makes me pull the trigger and get "THAT" camera. So now, I'm humbly ask for your opinion, and hopefully I will eventually come up with a decision.

    P.S. I might seems to demand or ask for too much, but hopefully you guys can forgive me, as being a graphic designer for so many years with little exposure to photography, I really don't know what should I've asked or shouldn't. I didn't even know for sure whether this tread should be in here (If I've started the thread at the wrong place, please help me move to a much appropriate place, thank you Mod!!!)

    Thank you for your time, and wish you a happy day!!
    Cheers!!!
    none, save your money for other things in life. Photography can be costy down the road.

  9. #89
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Not sure if this had been mentioned before (5 pages... I didn't read every single thread), I would advise that you rent out those cameras that you find okay with you and see which one you like best. For me... I will jump straight into getting a full frame if I would go all over again... but that is because of my shooting style and genre which I find fullframe will be a better choice for me.
    Well we did discussed about the camera rental method. One of the commentator here actually suggest to buy and try, then sell, and take the loss as "rental". I think there's a high chance that I might go for a FF body, as more and more people suggested that lens building is important, and it would be a waste if I decided to go for those crop body lenses, and end up upgrade myself a FF body and resell and rebuild my lenses collection.

    Thank you for your time!!! Have a nice day!!!

  10. #90
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by khookhuc View Post
    Can compare the canon eosM kit len 22mmf2.0 at dxomark vs carl zeiss 50mm f1.4. Light weight with eosM body,carry whole day no problem
    It's a great combo for the portability. I will look into the eos M, and see how's its photo quality. Thanks for the suggestion!!

  11. #91
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure View Post
    none, save your money for other things in life. Photography can be costy down the road.
    Well... this is the "first of the kind" comment...

    Thank you...

  12. #92

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    Awesome advices been thrown here.. kudos to all! As for me, i started with 600d an entry level.. As i've grown, i purchased a 60d.. in a few years, if gods will, i'll get a ff..

  13. #93
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by kotai View Post
    Awesome advices been thrown here.. kudos to all! As for me, i started with 600d an entry level.. As i've grown, i purchased a 60d.. in a few years, if gods will, i'll get a ff..
    My prediction... 6D for you next?? hahaha... The 666 set!!!

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post

    My prediction... 6D for you next?? hahaha... The 666 set!!!
    Hahahaha!! The devil! Maybe buddy.. wohoooo!!

  15. #95
    Pending Email Verification Knowledge Bowl's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    If you really believe that you will continue to invest in this hobby and keep going after years, get the full frame.

    In time to come, full frame system will get more affordable.

    For a start, you do not need expensive fast lens. Just ask yourself what are the usual stuff you like to shoot.

    A lens of range 17-35mm is good for family gathering, landscape, interior

    Lens of range 28-300mm is a general lens that a travel photographer will appreciate

    Check out which system support the lens you need.

    After that, check out what software you need to start your digital darkroom to complete the digital workflow.

    ACDSee Pro 7 and Lightroom plus Photoshop with the plug ins.

    Enjoy photography
    Photography, A Hobby for Life
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  16. #96
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Sorry guys, I have been missing from my own tread for quite a while now. During these time, I have been running more research, watching a lot of videos, and checking on others' comments and posts around the forum. And I have made some decisions which will help me narrowing down all the choices.

    First of all, Sensor size

    At the beginning of this tread, I was obviously not well informed and overlooked a lot of things, as my initial thinking is that, the bigger the sensor, the better it is. Well... I think it's still a strong fact, however... The question comes to... What and Why I need!

    I'm starting to drop my "30% work 70% hobby" idea, as the more I think, the more I realize, I don't really need it for WORK!!! I mean it's good for helping to further develop and learning photography, and that's good for my own portfolio. But... I don't really think IQ is the main concern here, as it's more about my creativity and exploration. BTW, I'm a graphic designer. So...

    I'm not going for Full Frame anymore. Instead, I'm seriously considering the Micro 4/3 and the APS-C camera. If one spends enough time in this forum, should know 1 fact that the IQ of these 2 sensors are actually ON-PAR/not too far from the Full Frame sensor!!! I previously never thought of it, and now that I realize, it really helps me to choice which camera suits me. So... Since I'm not looking for a work horse, and instead a happy fun using cameara, here comes the second part...

    2. Size/Weight (I know I didnt put 1. for full frame, but you guys gonna get it anyway...)

    If you've read through this tread, you should know that I have mentioned that it's not a big problem for me, I will take it as a test/training, blah blah blah... Well... That's "past" me, and "present" me is thinking differently. Why? Here is why...

    Same as usual, READ & RESEARCH. I've read a lot of posts on user tread on certain cameras, and I find out a lot of people that were using full body DSLR, are starting get a secondary camera, and most of them are "downsizing" their gears. One thing for sure is that Micro 4/3 is HOT IN HERE!! Not that I've ignore the FF mirrorless camera... (I wish I make money faster than my own saliva dropping on my keyboard whenever I see the photos from A7/r...)

    The weight is a serious problem when you are traveling, especially with family/friends. Some say it causes back pain, too old man liao, too much burden, lazy, hahaha... "Some" should know who I've been talking about LOL My wife saw some of her friends' bf, carrying a tripod with BIG dslr on it, and said "sipeh chi cham aa... go where also need to carry that thing" So I took some considerations on this, and come up with only several cameras that fall into the light/portable category.

    3. Brands (system/lens)

    I don't to go all over this, as I might accidentally start a Brand War III (You get it? World War II World War III? Nvm me...) I know there are great lenses among all the brands, and I'm gonna skip on this and go straight to my own thinking.

    OLYMPUS (Imma wearing my cloak of flame and walk around everyone LOL)
    They got me seriously interested with their 12-40mm PRO lens. I think it's a very good combo for me to start, as zoom lenses are more versatile, and I get to train myself with certain focal length and get familiar with it before I jump into prime lenses (ya know... 50mm, 35mm, 70mm??) The zoom will even save me if I really can't get a good angle/framing on certain location! The 12-40mm, covered most of the focal length and there's even a 7-14mm coming soon!!! So I think I'm making a right choice for myself. I don't think I will start to shoot tele photo that soon, so the system is a good place for me to start. Even if I change my mind, there are still many choices of lens from other brand like Panasonic.

    FUJIFILM (I'm not dropping my cloak of flame yet LOL)
    It is the XT-1, and man... the design... fuuuuuu... Very like it... Many dials... Wow... So good... Such retro... Black black...
    It's the first time I drool over the design of the camera body, instead of specs... Not that it has bad specs, it's really good actually!
    One thing that still making me hesitate to go straight to the EM1 is the XT-1's APS-C sensor and the Fuji Color (Never knew about it until I read and watch the video, someone giving speech on the X-series, forgot his name LOL) But... Comparing the kit lens with the Oly Pro lens, I choose Oly over Fuji.

    If only... If... XT-1 is the EM1 and it comes with the 12-40mm Pro Lens LOLOLOL I would sell my @ss to fund the camera!!!

    In the end, the Olympus OMD EM1 is on top of my list now, too bad I can't get it any time soon... I used up my budget on other thing

    So what do you guys think? For me, I think neither of the cameras will go wrong for anyone!!

  17. #97
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    I'm in a dilemma too deciding between A7 and X-T1. The FF on the A7 is attracting me and it can take better videos. But I got an offer to get X-T1 kit for less than $1.8k (!!!) and it is seriously tempting me. I love the handling of both cameras but I would have to accept that A7 is less complicated for me.

    Anybody can help me to decide?

  18. #98
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by adiBOY View Post
    I'm in a dilemma too deciding between A7 and X-T1. The FF on the A7 is attracting me and it can take better videos. But I got an offer to get X-T1 kit for less than $1.8k (!!!) and it is seriously tempting me. I love the handling of both cameras but I would have to accept that A7 is less complicated for me.

    Anybody can help me to decide?
    I think you still have to see a little bit into the future. By this, I mean the system itself.

    For me, Sony is out of my reach, as I can only imagine the investment is really really expensive for their lenses, and the choices of lenses... not sure how many ppl agree with me on this... Unless you are thinking about using adapters and 3rd party lenses or even some old lenses, it's gonna cost you big time. There are pros and cons using an adapter, so I'll let you decide on this one. I was considering the A7, as the price is really really comparable if you look at its sensor and the price of XT1...

    I decided to go for Olympus, because of the lens choices. Though I know not everyone is gonna buy and use every lenses they offer, but for me, the 12-40mm and the future 7-14mm is the lenses I'm definitely gonna enjoy.

    Maybe you can look into Sony and Fuji lenses, and try looking for something you like. I like the IQ of the FE 55mm f1.8 ZA, but I think I'm still too inexperience to go into fixed focal length yet.

    Hope this helps!

  19. #99
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by adiBOY View Post
    I'm in a dilemma too deciding between A7 and X-T1. The FF on the A7 is attracting me and it can take better videos. But I got an offer to get X-T1 kit for less than $1.8k (!!!) and it is seriously tempting me. I love the handling of both cameras but I would have to accept that A7 is less complicated for me.

    Anybody can help me to decide?
    A7. You love the handling... it is less complicated for you... Isn't that logical? The only issue I see now was the limited amount of choice for lenses at the moment, but I truly believe that it would change.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  20. #100
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    FF versus APS-C versus M4/3 is a personal decision.

    In general, from FF to M4/3 and other formats, you will exchange portability/size for high ISO performance and DOF control, i.e. FF cameras will have better high ISO performance and DOF control, but FF cameras/lenses will generally be heavier and less portable. Simple as that. I think for everything else like what detail la, dynamic range, all that is just hogwash. These issues can really be overcome via digital processing methods and the different size sensors will not differ too much TODAY.

    That said, all the various mirrorless cameras like the A7, NEX series do change the game a little. But these improvements on portability generally just relate to the camera body size, rather than the lenses. Sure, you can adapt all sorts of rangefinder lenses for the A7 or use NEX lenses (e.g. 10-24) on it, but it isn't going to be a native solution, and there is always going to be a difference and added hassle of adaptors, etc.

    I myself can't stand the weight of FF cameras/lenses, so until there are serious improvements in that aspect, I'd opt out of that. M4/3 still has weaknesses in the area of long exposure photography (for landscapes) so I'm still using my APS-C DSLR for that. Recently picked up a M4/3 set because it's just so small and light.

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