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Thread: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C / m43 ??

  1. #61

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    That 'limitation' has more or less disappeared in the past 2yrs of cameras.
    There used to be limitations like poor iso performance, not enough MP, not enough DR.
    Nowadays, almost all cameras can do these decently with good /fast lenses for most general purposes.

    If you want 'dirt cheap' FF, the Canon 5D is a good option.
    AF is not that good, but its a camera that is still able to get the job done.
    A camera good enough for pros and commercial work just a few years ago, for very little money.
    There are also the 5DII and D700 to look at.

    Aps-c has reached a point where its good enough in most situations.
    Some like the K3 even have Af points that are sensitive to -3ev (ie. can focus even if its very dark)
    Others like aps-c mirrorless come with fast lenses catered for the aps-c format (eg. Fuji X series), though AF is usually a bit slower than similar priced DSLRs.

    So there are plenty to choose from.
    No wrong choice at all.

  2. #62

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Drolling HARD over your camera collection... I wish one day I can own such wide range of cameras like you hahaha...
    using 1 system very well is good to develop craft...
    many system and you'll spend time mastering systems instead of mastering craft
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  3. #63
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    LOL

    I'm new here, I managed to find your reputation page, but still can't find the Up and Down buttom you mention...
    Do you mind guiding me on this? I might even because handy in the future.
    .... up and down looking for the bottom ........ ????
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
    Not exactly 100% Natural but definitely the closest you can get to it

  4. #64

    Default

    After so many pages, we still don't know what genre you will be going for. We can roughly let you know how much you can expect to spend on the lenses based on the genre. Pardon. You did mention. Macro, event, studio, video etc. For FF system, you can expect to spend on lenses, $2000 and upwards. There are still accessories you will need as well, eg. Flash, tripod, bag, etc. Like many brother and sisters here suggested. Get something 2nd hand, decent and cheap just to start off. Then afterwards, you can understand yourself better, what lenses to get. My personal opinion is that buying the best you can afford right from the start save money but you need to go through a process understanding your own want and need. Buying something really expensive to discover later that you don't need it will be a bigger waste of money.
    Last edited by coolthought; 27th January 2014 at 01:35 PM.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  5. #65

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Dear TS ahblack some words of wisdom,

    Pay 1 cent you get 1 cent worth.

    There is no free lunch in life.There is always a catch.

    The problem is your budget so you can always save up more but it's a mindset thing.If you have no budget problems you will be like a newly rich and go into a shop and ask "Is this the most expensive
    product you have, I want two of those." No offence doing research is the right thing to do but one must also be cognicent of the reality.You can't get 100% but you can come close.

    Which artist ever made it with his first piece of work? Was it Thomas Edison who invented the light bulb who said, "A genius is 99% hard work and 1% inspiration."

    Similarly a samurai does not only depend on a good sword,swordsmanship but his mental training
    and attitude.To be victorious he thinks that he is already dead anyway so has no fear of what is going to happen to him.

    We as humans like to cover all bases ( anticipate future problems) but it's not practical in real life."Ride a cow to find a horse" a Chinese proverb.

    Understand and appreciate the power of NOW.

  6. #66
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    My wife and your wife shared the same mind!! There's actually a little bit funny story...

    I told me wife, than I will finally buy a new camera, a much proper one for "work" LOL... Then she asked me, how much. I was quite worried, as I told her about the 3k budget, she might... you know... go crazy? hahaha... But out of expectation, she said, "Why dont you buy a better one? Like those BIG BIG camera pro use to shoot pre-wedding and wedding dinner? At least you don't need to keep upgrade and end up buy more and more."

    Like you said, one time pain is still a better way to save money. I guess i won't be posting my final decision any time soon here NEED MORE FARMING!!!

    Thank you for sharing your "experience" hahaha!!! Have a great day!!!
    Other than my first camera (which had to be bought because I was one of the first owners of the then-new Panasonic G1 m4/3 cameras), I have always been scouting and waiting and stalking the Buy and Sell section. Once you know what you want, you don't really lose a lot by reselling your existing camera to upgrade (or in your case, downgrade - if you decide to go FF and find it's too heavy, etc). I love a camera that can focus fast and handy to carry around. If I started off with an FF, I probably would have been put off by the weight. It's a lot easier to resell an entry level camera than a higher end FF. Don't like Canon? Sell everything and switch to something else, and offload everything easily on Buy and Sell (within minutes, if you offer the right price).

    Limitations in the camera is a limitation of the mind. There is always a workaround to every problem (even if it means noisy, blurry, dark photos that are aesthetically pleasing when you don't have a choice). Maybe an FF can take better pics than my D7000 but I am not paid to take photos. The only times I have offloaded cameras is when they are at the end of a value I am happy to offload them to another buyer who probably has even tighter budget than me. Talk to a hundred photographers and you will get a hundred reasons why you should/should not get FF. Hopefully you have gathered enough reasons to make your own informed decisions.

    But don't take too long. The one thing I never regret was getting that first camera and start shooting. I would have missed out on a big part of life, if I decided to wait and wait.

  7. #67
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    That 'limitation' has more or less disappeared in the past 2yrs of cameras.
    There used to be limitations like poor iso performance, not enough MP, not enough DR.
    Nowadays, almost all cameras can do these decently with good /fast lenses for most general purposes.

    If you want 'dirt cheap' FF, the Canon 5D is a good option.
    AF is not that good, but its a camera that is still able to get the job done.
    A camera good enough for pros and commercial work just a few years ago, for very little money.
    There are also the 5DII and D700 to look at.

    Aps-c has reached a point where its good enough in most situations.
    Some like the K3 even have Af points that are sensitive to -3ev (ie. can focus even if its very dark)
    Others like aps-c mirrorless come with fast lenses catered for the aps-c format (eg. Fuji X series), though AF is usually a bit slower than similar priced DSLRs.

    So there are plenty to choose from.
    No wrong choice at all.
    I see... I did over-think the "limitation"...

    Isn't Canon 5D really "old"? I did some simple googling and the camera was first announced on 2005! If I were to get 1, wouldn't the 2nd hand camera is nearing its end after such long years?
    There's actually another choice, which my friend recommended, the Nikon D700. I saw some offers in B&S section, costs around 1.5k SGD. Is that a good choice?

    To be frank, I'm not really looking for a dirt cheap camera, I think I'm more than willing to pay a bit more for a decent camera.

    I like your "no wrong choice at all". I think I might really put too much expectation on a camera, and after listening to all the pros here, I think I will be better off being flexible.

    Thank you for your time!!

  8. #68
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    using 1 system very well is good to develop craft...
    many system and you'll spend time mastering systems instead of mastering craft
    Great advice

  9. #69
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    .... up and down looking for the bottom ........ ????
    LOL I'm really sorry!! I didn't even realize until you mentioned it.

    I was trying to up a commentator's reputation, but I cant seem to find the "button" LOL

  10. #70
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought View Post
    After so many pages, we still don't know what genre you will be going for. We can roughly let you know how much you can expect to spend on the lenses based on the genre. Pardon. You did mention. Macro, event, studio, video etc. For FF system, you can expect to spend on lenses, $2000 and upwards. There are still accessories you will need as well, eg. Flash, tripod, bag, etc. Like many brother and sisters here suggested. Get something 2nd hand, decent and cheap just to start off. Then afterwards, you can understand yourself better, what lenses to get. My personal opinion is that buying the best you can afford right from the start save money but you need to go through a process understanding your own want and need. Buying something really expensive to discover later that you don't need it will be a bigger waste of money.
    Thank you for the advice. I'm planning to rent the camera and lenses, to go on some field trial before I pull the trigger. You did make a point there, where I should understand myself better first. I guess there will be a lot of testings and trials before I announce my final choice here

    Thank you once again!!

  11. #71
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by one eye jack View Post
    Dear TS ahblack some words of wisdom,

    Pay 1 cent you get 1 cent worth.

    There is no free lunch in life.There is always a catch.

    The problem is your budget so you can always save up more but it's a mindset thing.If you have no budget problems you will be like a newly rich and go into a shop and ask "Is this the most expensive
    product you have, I want two of those." No offence doing research is the right thing to do but one must also be cognicent of the reality.You can't get 100% but you can come close.

    Which artist ever made it with his first piece of work? Was it Thomas Edison who invented the light bulb who said, "A genius is 99% hard work and 1% inspiration."

    Similarly a samurai does not only depend on a good sword,swordsmanship but his mental training
    and attitude.To be victorious he thinks that he is already dead anyway so has no fear of what is going to happen to him.

    We as humans like to cover all bases ( anticipate future problems) but it's not practical in real life."Ride a cow to find a horse" a Chinese proverb.

    Understand and appreciate the power of NOW.
    A great thought I must say. Thank you sir!!
    Last edited by ahblack; 27th January 2014 at 03:08 PM. Reason: wrong spelling

  12. #72
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Other than my first camera (which had to be bought because I was one of the first owners of the then-new Panasonic G1 m4/3 cameras), I have always been scouting and waiting and stalking the Buy and Sell section. Once you know what you want, you don't really lose a lot by reselling your existing camera to upgrade (or in your case, downgrade - if you decide to go FF and find it's too heavy, etc). I love a camera that can focus fast and handy to carry around. If I started off with an FF, I probably would have been put off by the weight. It's a lot easier to resell an entry level camera than a higher end FF. Don't like Canon? Sell everything and switch to something else, and offload everything easily on Buy and Sell (within minutes, if you offer the right price).

    Limitations in the camera is a limitation of the mind. There is always a workaround to every problem (even if it means noisy, blurry, dark photos that are aesthetically pleasing when you don't have a choice). Maybe an FF can take better pics than my D7000 but I am not paid to take photos. The only times I have offloaded cameras is when they are at the end of a value I am happy to offload them to another buyer who probably has even tighter budget than me. Talk to a hundred photographers and you will get a hundred reasons why you should/should not get FF. Hopefully you have gathered enough reasons to make your own informed decisions.

    But don't take too long. The one thing I never regret was getting that first camera and start shooting. I would have missed out on a big part of life, if I decided to wait and wait.
    Thank you for sharing your experience. I actually have a great advantage compare to some of the people with tight budget, is that I can rent the equipments before I make the final purchase. I'm gonna test several things out, and report back to here!

    Well, I'm not sure how long I can really hold off myself from the growing buying impulse!!! I just hope that I won't end up buying something that I end up hate. Currently, things will working quite well for me, we'll just have to see what's the outcome after I rent and test the cameras and lenses.

    Thank you!!!

  13. #73
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Oh man... I'm really loving this... So many helpful pros around here, willing to give me such good lessons and advices.

    A big love and BIG BIG THANK to you all!!

  14. #74

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    i will recommend the 6D, cause' i have seen my friend getting very troubled over his D600, due to manufacturer defects.

  15. #75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Thank you for the advice. I'm planning to rent the camera and lenses, to go on some field trial before I pull the trigger. You did make a point there, where I should understand myself better first. I guess there will be a lot of testings and trials before I announce my final choice here Thank you once again!!
    If you are going to rent for more than a few days, it will be probably a cheaper option to buy a second hand one and sell it off later. The difference in the buying and selling price can be thought of as "rental" and you get to use it much longer.
    PS. Please don't call us pro or anything like that. We are still very much on the learning journey.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  16. #76
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by tecnica View Post
    i will recommend the 6D, cause' i have seen my friend getting very troubled over his D600, due to manufacturer defects.
    I actually started to take notice of the Nikon D610 before I started this tread. But then slowly I leaning toward the Canon 6D. Not because of the body actually, instead it is because of the system. I haven't get into either Nikon or Canon before, just that I keep seeing and hearing people complimenting how good as a system of Canon. I did see several reviews stated that D600 has problems with oil leak or something.

    I think for my final decision, Canon does have a higher chance to get my small sale. But nothing is certain, we shall see about it.

    Thank you!!

  17. #77
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought View Post
    If you are going to rent for more than a few days, it will be probably a cheaper option to buy a second hand one and sell it off later. The difference in the buying and selling price can be thought of as "rental" and you get to use it much longer.
    PS. Please don't call us pro or anything like that. We are still very much on the learning journey.
    My planning was renting the gears for several outings, maybe 2 or 3. 1 day for each outing, with me and another friend of mine. We will rent a body and maybe 1 or 2 lenses for each of us, then take turn to test out the cameras with different combination of lenses. If my math is correct, we get to test 2 bodies with 4 lenses, it's like 8 combinations there for each of us, for 1 outing. We are not doing any professional reviews, so simple hand-on for a few hours should be enough for us. Of course, to make this works, we need to carefully choose the gears to test as many gears as we can. This is my initial planning though. You mentioned that buying and selling can be treat as "rental" as well. I will discuss this with my friend.

    Hahaha... okok... Do you prefer Camera Guru?? hahaha...

    Thank you for your opinion!!

  18. #78

    Default

    For me it will be simple. D7100.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  19. #79

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Hi brother and sister.
    Just buy the canon eos M kit2, it really good, AF ok.iQ ok,light weight,iso also ok.the kit len 22mm F2 very sharp.with the adaptor,you can mount sigma 17-50 F2.8.small body big len look very style,total cost me $ 1100.rememder to buy extra battery.enjoy.
    Last edited by khookhuc; 28th January 2014 at 09:00 AM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Oh man... I'm really loving this... So many helpful pros around here, willing to give me such good lessons and advices.

    A big love and BIG BIG THANK to you all!!
    Hey,don't go kuniang ( mushy) on us o.k.? This is manly stuff.

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