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Thread: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C / m43 ??

  1. #21
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    I'll offer you the most challenging... get a canon rebel with kit lens. @$300. push it to limit
    If there's a "like", imma gonna like you HARD!!!

    I think I understand what are you trying to say. Actually I'm not alone in this, one of my friends who has no background on any form of photography planning to start learning photography with me. He's gonna get a entry-level DSLR, and a Canon Rebel might actually be his choice, as he really just wanna test water without throwing a lot of money into it. If he gets the Rebel, I'm gonna take up your challenge LOL Watch out for my future tread in Photo Galleries section!!

    Thank you for your time!!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by obfuscate View Post
    If you are coming from a PnS background, you need to know that a DSLR is not a camera that will give you a depth of field like PnS, so images will be less sharp front to back at the larger apertures. This will be true especially for FF compared to APSC. Portability is another issue, DSLRs are not cameras that you can carry around with you. If you desire portability, it has to be APSC mirrorless like the Fuji or fixed focal length like the Leica X2 or FF like the RX1 or RX1R, all within your means. Just a note of caution, let's assume that there is a possibility that you do not like the camera that you have purchased and decide to sell it, only Canon and Nikons have better resale value. Also, I would never recommend any cameras that cannot support a flash that can both tilt and swivel.
    Thank you for your advice, but just a gentle reminder, I have much experience on DSLR too. I've been working for my current company for more than 2 years, and I've been playing part as a photographer in most of the promotional events, award presentation dinner and seminar training. Some of the events were held in conventional hall (MBS, Hard Rock, etc...) and ballrooms (Orchard Hotel, Furama, etc...). We did Family Day in USS last year, from 9am - 6pm, me and my colleague were running around with camera on tripod LOL (That's the first time I went to USS, and sadly... it's for work...)

    I'm totally agree with you on the portability part. Like what some of the previous commentators mentioned, it does take toll on our body for carrying gears for a long period of time. I went to Harvey Norman today, and had some simple hands on with several cameras. When the promoter show me the NEX, and when I held it with my own hands, it just didn't feel right for me. I know holding a 700g full body DSLR vs 300g mirrorless camera for a straight 3 hours is way different than just holding them for 5 mins, but I dont know... The mirrorless camera just doesn't feel right to me... Maybe I have yet to come to term with the "portability outweighs photo quality", but I will definitely take this into consideration when deciding which camera is the "best" for me.

    As for resale value, I'm actually concern more about the system itself. People choose Canon or Nikon for certain reasons, for it's user-friendly interface, wide range of lenses, or future body upgrade. I don't think I'm gonna sell of my first DSLR, as it serves as a special memory. And I think by the time I'm ready for another upgrade, the camera I bought (mostly will be either 70D or D7100) won't really worth any value, hahaha...

    Thanks for the advice!!! You did provide me much insights for camera choosing!! Have a great day!!

  3. #23
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by voice123 View Post
    just a cation is the total weight u carrying only lor. else everything is fun
    I'm agree with you on this one!! But for now, all I think about is the FUN part LOL

    Thank you for your time!! Cheers!

  4. #24

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    If there's a "like", imma gonna like you HARD!!!

    I think I understand what are you trying to say. Actually I'm not alone in this, one of my friends who has no background on any form of photography planning to start learning photography with me. He's gonna get a entry-level DSLR, and a Canon Rebel might actually be his choice, as he really just wanna test water without throwing a lot of money into it. If he gets the Rebel, I'm gonna take up your challenge LOL Watch out for my future tread in Photo Galleries section!!

    Thank you for your time!!
    you're meowcome. please be gentle with be me I'm just a little kitty cat.

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  5. #25

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    A Question for TS.

    Why have you only shortlisted 2 latest offerings from Canon and Nikon each? What about other brands? What about mirrorless cameras? Have you done sufficient homework in finding out about them?
    hi

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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by ahblack View Post
    Not to deter mirrorless camera, but I still prefer a great body with great quality. Who knows, maybe in the future when I get lazy, I might go with one of those and be very very happy about it, hahaha!
    You will be surprised by the image quality of mirrorless cameras nowadays. Image quality of the fuji mirroless can rival fullframe DSLRs. And the new Olympus EM-1 produces images at better quality in terms of noise performance, micro contrast and sharpness than the Nikon D3.

    And yes, the above mentioned mirrorless cameras all perform much better than the 5Dm2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You will be surprised by the image quality of mirrorless cameras nowadays. Image quality of the fuji mirroless can rival fullframe DSLRs. And the new Olympus EM-1 produces images at better quality in terms of noise performance, micro contrast and sharpness than the Nikon D3. And yes, the above mentioned mirrorless cameras all perform much better than the 5Dm2.
    U can quote me on that, moving up from P n S , I've never went into the DSLR range and started straight into MFT and I'm now using the EM-1z The line has grown so much that Oly , Fuji and Sony are more than capable of offerings that will rival or better the norm brands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwee View Post

    U can quote me on that, moving up from P n S , I've never went into the DSLR range and started straight into MFT and I'm now using the EM-1z The line has grown so much that Oly , Fuji and Sony are more than capable of offerings that will rival or better the norm brands.
    Yes. But to put things in perspective, top DSLR models are still top performers esoecially coupled with their entire lens systems. Just use the right tools for the job. But mirrorless has come a long way to be serious contenders in many uses.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Yes. But to put things in perspective, top DSLR models are still top performers esoecially coupled with their entire lens systems. Just use the right tools for the job. But mirrorless has come a long way to be serious contenders in many uses.
    Agree with the key line : Just use the right toolls for the job
    Portability is very key to me, hence it's more of a balance between IQ , Portability & lens system that I seek rather than going in one extreme.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Yes. But to put things in perspective, top DSLR models are still top performers esoecially coupled with their entire lens systems. Just use the right tools for the job. But mirrorless has come a long way to be serious contenders in many uses.
    Slowly but surely it's starting to eat into areas where only top end DSLRs can perform well.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  11. #31

    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You will be surprised by the image quality of mirrorless cameras nowadays. Image quality of the fuji mirroless can rival fullframe DSLRs. And the new Olympus EM-1 produces images at better quality in terms of noise performance, micro contrast and sharpness than the Nikon D3.

    And yes, the above mentioned mirrorless cameras all perform much better than the 5Dm2.
    +1. I started taking up photography October last year and bought myself a Canon 70D with a Sigma 17-55mm standard lens. I took alot of photos with it and found out that it is a great camera, good picture quality. BUT......the combined weight of the Canon 70D and the Sigma lens was a big turn off for me. So I decided to try something light and compact instead. Something that I can place it in my bag easily whenever I go out to go anywhere with no hassle at all.
    After doing alot of research, I decided to give Samsung NX300 a try. Its a mirrorless interchangeable lens system. Got it second hand at BnS section where the buyer just used it for one day and decided to sell it a great discount including tonnes of freebies. Man, this camera is "happening". So light , compact and easy to use. IQ is great and it has all the bells and whistles of my Canon 70D plus more features. It has become my work horse camera but my Canon 70D, I will still keep it as it is also a great camera, but I will use it for special events.
    Last edited by KissMyAxe; 26th January 2014 at 03:36 PM.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    you're meowcome. please be gentle with be me I'm just a little kitty cat.

    you can click the up down reputation button and up me 1 point meanwhile
    LOL

    I'm new here, I managed to find your reputation page, but still can't find the Up and Down buttom you mention...
    Do you mind guiding me on this? I might even because handy in the future.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    Slowly but surely it's starting to eat into areas where only top end DSLRs can perform well.
    It already has. But like I said before DSLR have things they do really well as a whole system. An example is wildlife and sports photography with those long lenses.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 26th January 2014 at 05:08 PM.

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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by KissMyAxe View Post
    +1. I started taking up photography October last year and bought myself a Canon 70D with a Sigma 17-55mm standard lens. I took alot of photos with it and found out that it is a great camera, good picture quality. BUT......the combined weight of the Canon 70D and the Sigma lens was a big turn off for me. So I decided to try something light and compact instead. Something that I can place it in my bag easily whenever I go out to go anywhere with no hassle at all.
    After doing alot of research, I decided to give Samsung NX300 a try. Its a mirrorless interchangeable lens system. Got it second hand at BnS section where the buyer just used it for one day and decided to sell it a great discount including tonnes of freebies. Man, this camera is "happening". So light , compact and easy to use. IQ is great and it has all the bells and whistles of my Canon 70D plus more features. It has become my work horse camera but my Canon 70D, I will still keep it as it is also a great camera, but I will use it for special events.
    It is indeed the current trend now. Many casual DSLR users or new users will choose mirrorless over the rest. This will continue to happen and eat into the consumer DSLR market. For many more serious photographers, they will get it as a small/light system for casual shooting on top of their current system, much akin to a sidearm.

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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    It is indeed the current trend now. Many casual DSLR users or new users will choose mirrorless over the rest. This will continue to happen and eat into the consumer DSLR market. For many more serious photographers, they will get it as a small/light system for casual shooting on top of their current system, much akin to a sidearm.
    +1 to mod DD.

    Yes, I have the A7, Nex 7, Ricoh GR and Fuji X10. Previously, have also played around with the Fuji X-Pro1, Leica M8, Leica X2, which were already sold off. Either one these compacts and mirrorless system is permanently in my daily work bag or in my car. But, for more serious stuff or pre-meditated shoots, I always have my 1DX or 5D3 as the preferred system.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by silvermoon1407 View Post
    A Question for TS.

    Why have you only shortlisted 2 latest offerings from Canon and Nikon each? What about other brands? What about mirrorless cameras? Have you done sufficient homework in finding out about them?
    To tell you the truth, I didn't do as much homework on the mirrorless camera as I did on full body DSLR. I only checked on their specs without really digging any deeper. However, I did check on their photos, and I totally acknowledge the quality they can deliver. But there are things that bother me.

    First of all, the lenses system. I know... mirrorless camera has steadily being developed and has already started to catch up with their bigger cousin, and more and more lenses are coming in. But still, lenses for full body DSLR are still ahead of mirrorless camera, and I'm kind of wondering will the limitation hits me way earlier compared to the lens system for full body DSLR. I know there's mount adapter for mirrorless camera, but it kind of defeats the purpose of choosing the mirrorless camera (for its portability). I've really put thought on this one. For example, Canon 70D which uses EF and EF-S lenses. Mostly I will stick to the EF lenses, live with the crop factor. If I were to get a FF camera, I can still use back my old lenses. I might sound like a cheapo... but this is a great way for me to save money LOL

    Secondly, body specs. I think this is where DSLR still have its grip on people's heart. The simple things like AF points and speed, JPEG + RAW output variety, Megapixel (maybe not that important for everyone), movie output, burst frame count, etc... do affect my final decision. The main reason I started this tread is to get as many opinion from all the pros here as I can, before I decide which camera I should buy, that can last for the longest period before another upgrade is needed.

    And finally, the purpose of my "first camera". Experiment, exploration, and the excitement! I just wanna do this and that, and everything! And I just can't bare with the fact that mirrorless camera can offer me portability with a little bit of limitation for my exploration in photography, while DSLR can offer me so much more, just by sacrificing the portability!

    As for the cameras from other brands, I might just be biased about certain brands, especially Sony. I will take this chance to correct a info I previously state in this tread, as I finally found out my company's DSLR, is in fact the Sony A77. Having the chance to work with the camera for the past 2 years, I encounter several issue with its focusing speed and accuracy of some of the focus point (especially those furthest from the center). I'm not 100% sure it's the camera problem, but I believe in myself more than the camera LOL (Sony supports... please forgive me...).

    I know there is still a lot of homework I should do before I make any decision. I shall do more research as you suggested, and to be full open-minded to other brands and cameras.

    Thank you for your advice!! Have a great day!!

  17. #37
    Member ahblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You will be surprised by the image quality of mirrorless cameras nowadays. Image quality of the fuji mirroless can rival fullframe DSLRs. And the new Olympus EM-1 produces images at better quality in terms of noise performance, micro contrast and sharpness than the Nikon D3.

    And yes, the above mentioned mirrorless cameras all perform much better than the 5Dm2.
    I think the latest technology always triumph over older one, but in camera, I think there are more things that influence different people making different choices, for example, familiarity, user experience, and even their own system that has been exist for so long.

    Take 5Dm2, it doesn't just stand as a single camera, but also its brand Canon and their system. This, I take seriously into my consideration.

    To be frank, mirrorless camera, whether it's APS-S or Micro 4/3, just seems so "point and shoot" for me, compared with body of DSLR. Don't get me wrong, I know it's totally not true and they are in different league, but it's just my feeling on how the mirrorless camera present itself to me. I tried to hold most of the mirrorless cameras, and in my hands, they're just not "tasty" (I know this sounds really really weird).

    I really appreciate your opinions, and I'm really grateful to be listened and greeted by you!! Thank you!!

  18. #38
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by KissMyAxe View Post
    +1. I started taking up photography October last year and bought myself a Canon 70D with a Sigma 17-55mm standard lens. I took alot of photos with it and found out that it is a great camera, good picture quality. BUT......the combined weight of the Canon 70D and the Sigma lens was a big turn off for me. So I decided to try something light and compact instead. Something that I can place it in my bag easily whenever I go out to go anywhere with no hassle at all.
    After doing alot of research, I decided to give Samsung NX300 a try. Its a mirrorless interchangeable lens system. Got it second hand at BnS section where the buyer just used it for one day and decided to sell it a great discount including tonnes of freebies. Man, this camera is "happening". So light , compact and easy to use. IQ is great and it has all the bells and whistles of my Canon 70D plus more features. It has become my work horse camera but my Canon 70D, I will still keep it as it is also a great camera, but I will use it for special events.
    Hi KissMyAxe, I noticed that you own the Canon 70D and I took my chance to visit your flickr photo stream. I must say... WOWOWOWOWOW... Whether it's the photo from your NX300 or the 70D, it's just amazing!!

    I think everything still comes down to the creativity of the person behind the camera. No matter what you use, there's always possibility for producing outstanding shots.

    Thank you for being here and share your experience with us!! I shall dig around your photo steam and learn several setting for my experiment!!

  19. #39
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    It is indeed the current trend now. Many casual DSLR users or new users will choose mirrorless over the rest. This will continue to happen and eat into the consumer DSLR market. For many more serious photographers, they will get it as a small/light system for casual shooting on top of their current system, much akin to a sidearm.
    I think that's what most of the pros here are trying to tell me. But in my case, I wanna be a serious photographer, so one thing for sure is that I'm not looking for a "sidearm"

  20. #40
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    Default Re: FIRST DSLR!! Full Frame / APS-C??

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelix View Post
    +1 to mod DD.

    Yes, I have the A7, Nex 7, Ricoh GR and Fuji X10. Previously, have also played around with the Fuji X-Pro1, Leica M8, Leica X2, which were already sold off. Either one these compacts and mirrorless system is permanently in my daily work bag or in my car. But, for more serious stuff or pre-meditated shoots, I always have my 1DX or 5D3 as the preferred system.
    Drolling HARD over your camera collection... I wish one day I can own such wide range of cameras like you hahaha...

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