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Thread: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post

    Don't anyhowly teach hor....

  2. #222
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    Yes I want to learn some of this Singlish. If I am going to hang out on the CS board then I am going to try and walk the walk and talk the talk the best I can. I am into expanding my world which is why I bother. You guys might have to start calling me FP (foreign poster) Starting over on the other side of the world is going to keep me from ever moving to your little red dot but I wouldn't mind visiting there someday despite whatever that girl says about her homeland.
    If you are a bit into languages then Singlish will give you some fun. It's a mixture of a handful of languages, the scientific term is 'Creole Language'. Some terms can be translated directly, for others you have to guess and read between the lines. Hint: if it's not an English word, don't use English pronunciation but rather any other European language (German, Italian, Spanish). Malay uses exactly the same pronunciation as German for the vowels. A few guides / dictionaries to get through the jungle:
    http://www.singlishdictionary.com/
    http://www.talkingcock.com/html/lexe...exicon=lexicon
    EOS

  3. #223
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Sion I get kena sai for my potty mouth mah...thanks a lot bro...LOL

    And I always thought Sai was a mean looking sword...hahaha

    Give me some time and some help I bet I can get it down in not to long a time...we have a similar type of thing here in Oklahoma and Texas and whatnot...it is called Spanglish = spanish + english. We have immigration for better or worse here too and guess what? Everyone here just KPKB...lol

    Octarine thank you very much senior...you're great bro...

    You too old man

    I read tonight where maybe some of the Spore younger generation are like this girl in video and they are ashamed to use Singlish anymore or it is "beneath" them? Is this true?
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 11:59 AM.

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    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    I read tonight where maybe some of the Spore younger generation are like this girl in video and they are ashamed to use Singlish anymore or it is "beneath" them? Is this true?
    No!


  5. #225
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    I read tonight where maybe some of the Spore younger generation are like this girl in video and they are ashamed to use Singlish anymore or it is "beneath" them? Is this true?

    No way.... Singlish is alive, kicking.... and enjoying the jacuzzi... even my Filipino wife is learning.

    People who claim they are ashamed by Singlish is either the elite or pretend to be elite... and English educator... most S'porean could switch being proper English and Singlish on the fly...

    Singlish, to me, is a common bond between all S'poreans.... like it or hate it, its part of the nation. And its also one of the way I could tell anyone I've met overseas, in a foreign land, are they or are they NOT... Singaporean... LOL

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    No!


    Chio Bu...


    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    No way.... Singlish is alive, kicking.... and enjoying the jacuzzi... even my Filipino wife is learning.

    People who claim they are ashamed by Singlish is either the elite or pretend to be elite... and English educator... most S'porean could switch being proper English and Singlish on the fly...

    Singlish, to me, is a common bond between all S'poreans.... like it or hate it, its part of the nation. And its also one of the way I could tell anyone I've met overseas, in a foreign land, are they or are they NOT... Singaporean... LOL
    I could see the girl that is in the original video perhaps being ashamed of Singlish but maybe not. Close minded people...wah lau eh!
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 01:07 PM.

  7. #227
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    No way.... Singlish is alive, kicking.... and enjoying the jacuzzi... even my Filipino wife is learning.

    People who claim they are ashamed by Singlish is either the elite or pretend to be elite... and English educator... most S'porean could switch being proper English and Singlish on the fly...

    Singlish, to me, is a common bond between all S'poreans.... like it or hate it, its part of the nation. And its also one of the way I could tell anyone I've met overseas, in a foreign land, are they or are they NOT... Singaporean... LOL
    Many young Singaporeans are now speaking with a faked American accent.

    Singamerican is the fashion now.

  8. #228
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Many young Singaporeans are now speaking with a faked American accent.
    Well hot damn maybe I can offer something to SP yet as mine is the real deal...Americanized Slang Singlish (ASS) that's dope liao! LOL

    Funny when I converse with a Mexican (who is not very proficient at English yet) in Spanglish, I find myself trying to imitate their accent...what a weird world we live in...at least to me. It is so majestic however.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #229

    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    I feel whether Singlish is good or bad largely depends on the context it is being used. While some may have pointed out it bonds Singaporeans together, which I agree to some extent, the ill effects of Singlish should not be forgotten also.

    For foreign members here who are not familiar with Singlish, one thing you have to note is that, it is not only about adding "lah", "leh", "meh", etc in your speeches. Singlish is also ungrammatical and pronunciations are often inaccurate. Sometimes, words are not properly enunciated and it could cause communication to break down, especially when a Singaporean tries to speak with someone who has learnt proper English.

    There are tons of examples. If anyone wants to see how bad the English standard in Singapore is, which I attribute largely to Singlish, just watch the English news at 9.30pm on Channel 5. There are bound to be interviews done in the streets. Just listen to the way the general Singaporean speaks. It is not just the uneducated but also the educated who sometimes have trouble putting their thoughts into proper English. I have to openly admit that many of our highly educated politicians and ministers also speak poor English. Only a very few can hold good conversations in English. The former PM, Lee Kwan Yew, and the present PM, Lee Hsien Loong, are 2 of them.

    To have a fair comparison, listen to how the layman in the streets of UK, Australia or US speak impromptu and you can already tell generally, Singaporeans indeed don't speak good English. If ever they do, it is often rehearsed. That's why sometimes, we find local English dramas on TV weird because their English is scripted. So they could sound unnatural as our brains know that is not how we Singaporeans tend to speak in our daily lives.

    How bad is Singlish? Ok here are some examples:

    - 3 is pronounced as "tree" instead of "tHree"
    - "I did not saw..."
    - Mixing up tenses in a speech
    - The girls is going....

    Etc etc etc. Too many to list here!

    Singlish may seem fun and good if you live the most part of your life here. But if you need to do presentations to international audience, or if like me, you do travel overseas for international conferences, you will see how bad Singlish is. I have seen too many times international audience, especially those who are native English speakers, having a hard time understanding what the hapless Singaporean speaker is trying to say. At some point, they have to be asked to repeat themselves. Or conversely, the Singaporeans themselves do not understand what the native speakers are trying to say because the former are simply not used to proper English! Maybe some of you have encountered this when you invite American or British photographers here to give talks. During Q&A, observe the puzzled looks on the speakers' faces when Singaporeans ask questions! Ok, some speak pretty good English, but you will surely easily encounter many who can't.

    It's a shame we claim to learn English as a "first language". I've seen Europeans who learn English as a 2nd or 3rd language but they can speak a lot better than us Singaporeans. Sure, some of them have their native country accents, but their English can be understood and has little or no grammatical errors. The words also flow smoothly. Singaporeans sometimes speak in a jerky start-stop manner cos I suppose it takes some effort to convert in our heads the Singlish way of speaking that we are so used to into proper English sentences.

    As for those who use fake American accents, well, maybe some of them are trying to show off. But sometimes, it's because we have become confused. Cos on the one hand, we learn Singlish but we know that's bad English. So we try to identify ourselves with the native speakers, for eg, American or British by speaking like them. Unfortunately, unless you have been brought up from young in the US or UK, it's never natural to try to speak like a native speaker while deep down, you have that Singlish inside you.
    Last edited by Priscilia; 27th November 2014 at 02:47 PM.

  10. #230

    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    I feel whether Singlish is good or bad largely depends on the context it is being used. While some may have pointed out it bonds Singaporeans together, which I agree to some extent, the ill effects of Singlish should not be forgotten also.

    For foreign members here who are not familiar with Singlish, one thing you have to note is that, it is not only about adding "lah", "leh", "meh", etc in your speeches. Singlish is also ungrammatical and pronunciations are often inaccurate. Sometimes, words are not properly enunciated and it could cause communication to break down, especially when a Singaporean tries to speak with someone who has learnt proper English.

    There are tons of examples. If anyone wants to see how bad the English standard in Singapore is, which I attribute largely to Singlish, just watch the English news at 9.30pm on Channel 5. There are bound to be interviews done in the streets. Just listen to the way the general Singaporean speaks. It is not just the uneducated but also the educated who sometimes have trouble putting their thoughts into proper English. I have to openly admit that many of our highly educated politicians and ministers also speak poor English. Only a very few can hold good conversations in English. The former PM, Lee Kwan Yew, and the present PM, Lee Hsien Loong, are 2 of them.

    To have a fair comparison, listen to how the layman in the streets of UK, Australia or US speak impromptu and you can already tell generally, Singaporeans indeed don't speak good English. If ever they do, it is often rehearsed. That's why sometimes, we find local English dramas on TV weird because their English is scripted. So they could sound unnatural as our brains know that is not how we Singaporeans tend to speak in our daily lives.

    How bad is Singlish? Ok here are some examples:

    - 3 is pronounced as "tree" instead of "tHree"
    - "I did not saw..."
    - Mixing up tenses in a speech
    - The girls is going....

    Etc etc etc. Too many to list here!

    Singlish may seem fun and good if you live the most part of your life here. But if you need to do presentations to international audience, or if like me, you do travel overseas for international conferences, you will see how bad Singlish is. I have seen too many times international audience, especially those who are native English speakers, having a hard time understanding what the hapless Singaporean speaker is trying to say. At some point, they have to be asked to repeat themselves. Or conversely, the Singaporeans themselves do not understand what the native speakers are trying to say because the former are simply not used to proper English! Maybe some of you have encountered this when you invite American or British photographers here to give talks. During Q&A, observe the puzzled looks on the speakers' faces when Singaporeans ask questions! Ok, some speak pretty good English, but you will surely easily encounter many who can't.

    It's a shame we claim to learn English as a "first language". I've seen Europeans who learn English as a 2nd or 3rd language but they can speak a lot better than us Singaporeans. Sure, some of them have their native country accents, but their English can be understood and has little or no grammatical errors. The words also flow smoothly. Singaporeans sometimes speak in a jerky start-stop manner cos I suppose it takes some effort to convert in our heads the Singlish way of speaking that we are so used to into proper English sentences.

    As for those who use fake American accents, well, maybe some of them are trying to show off. But sometimes, it's because we have become confused. Cos on the one hand, we learn Singlish but we know that's bad English. So we try to identify ourselves with the native speakers, for eg, American or British by speaking like them. Unfortunately, unless you have been brought up from young in the US or UK, it's never natural to try to speak like a native speaker while deep down, you have that Singlish inside you.
    i have to use singlish when i'm speaking to locals. if not, they have no clue what i'm talking about when i speak in perfect English

    it's all about adaptation.

  11. #231

    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    I feel whether Singlish is good or bad largely depends on the context it is being used. While some may have pointed out it bonds Singaporeans together, which I agree to some extent, the ill effects of Singlish should not be forgotten also.

    For foreign members here who are not familiar with Singlish, one thing you have to note is that, it is not only about adding "lah", "leh", "meh", etc in your speeches. Singlish is also ungrammatical and pronunciations are often inaccurate. Sometimes, words are not properly enunciated and it could cause communication to break down, especially when a Singaporean tries to speak with someone who has learnt proper English.

    There are tons of examples. If anyone wants to see how bad the English standard in Singapore is, which I attribute largely to Singlish, just watch the English news at 9.30pm on Channel 5. There are bound to be interviews done in the streets. Just listen to the way the general Singaporean speaks. It is not just the uneducated but also the educated who sometimes have trouble putting their thoughts into proper English. I have to openly admit that many of our highly educated politicians and ministers also speak poor English. Only a very few can hold good conversations in English. The former PM, Lee Kwan Yew, and the present PM, Lee Hsien Loong, are 2 of them.

    To have a fair comparison, listen to how the layman in the streets of UK, Australia or US speak impromptu and you can already tell generally, Singaporeans indeed don't speak good English. If ever they do, it is often rehearsed. That's why sometimes, we find local English dramas on TV weird because their English is scripted. So they could sound unnatural as our brains know that is not how we Singaporeans tend to speak in our daily lives.

    How bad is Singlish? Ok here are some examples:

    - 3 is pronounced as "tree" instead of "tHree"
    - "I did not saw..."
    - Mixing up tenses in a speech
    - The girls is going....

    Etc etc etc. Too many to list here!

    Singlish may seem fun and good if you live the most part of your life here. But if you need to do presentations to international audience, or if like me, you do travel overseas for international conferences, you will see how bad Singlish is. I have seen too many times international audience, especially those who are native English speakers, having a hard time understanding what the hapless Singaporean speaker is trying to say. At some point, they have to be asked to repeat themselves. Or conversely, the Singaporeans themselves do not understand what the native speakers are trying to say because the former are simply not used to proper English! Maybe some of you have encountered this when you invite American or British photographers here to give talks. During Q&A, observe the puzzled looks on the speakers' faces when Singaporeans ask questions! Ok, some speak pretty good English, but you will surely easily encounter many who can't.

    It's a shame we claim to learn English as a "first language". I've seen Europeans who learn English as a 2nd or 3rd language but they can speak a lot better than us Singaporeans. Sure, some of them have their native country accents, but their English can be understood and has little or no grammatical errors. The words also flow smoothly. Singaporeans sometimes speak in a jerky start-stop manner cos I suppose it takes some effort to convert in our heads the Singlish way of speaking that we are so used to into proper English sentences.

    As for those who use fake American accents, well, maybe some of them are trying to show off. But sometimes, it's because we have become confused. Cos on the one hand, we learn Singlish but we know that's bad English. So we try to identify ourselves with the native speakers, for eg, American or British by speaking like them. Unfortunately, unless you have been brought up from young in the US or UK, it's never natural to try to speak like a native speaker while deep down, you have that Singlish inside you.
    I see where you're coming from, but I guess the question is, is the poor command of English language due to Singlish, or due to some other reason? Does Singlish necessarily make you bad at English? I can switch between the two easily, like many other people. For people with poor command of English, I think that their English will be poor regardless of whether they spoke Singlish.

    And many of the examples you have given are not part of Singlish, it is just poor English. Singlish does not dictate that you say "I did not saw". The correct Singlish expression for that is "I neh see"

  12. #232
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    I must admit that when I first joined this forum, and you can see this in evidence if you go back and look, I tried to put on my best face and use the best English I could as if I was going to impress any of you all (hahaha southern drawl colloquialism) ...and my English is not very good either trust me because I hated that class always. LOL

    Priscilia I totally understand and agree with where you are coming from but nevertheless I see no reason why the whole world must speak perfect English all of the frigging time we are humans and just because we get lazy with our speech doesn't make us inferior to one who is part of the grammar defense forces it just makes us human like them with diversity which is good for all...If everyone speaks perfect proper English it becomes a bloody boring place to borrow a little British slang...bloody??? Really? What a strange manner of speech! The world is full of 6 billion people...5.5 billion of them hated that class too despite whether it was English, Chinese, etc. It is Singlish and Spanglish and the like that matters to us...in our "board meetings and presentations" we can understand one another perfectly. We identify with each other despite economical status or whatever. This is how language and culture evolves I think. Look at old english...none of us English speakers would probably completely understand it without diligent study right?


    I apologize but I must take issue with the Singlish is bad English..no it is simply Singlish...think of it as hybrid vigor. All things will change for sure and usually for the better. God's plan? Who knows...

    Many disagree with me but there are also many who agree with me...diversity is good because it gives us more options to adapt conform and survive. I think Kei has a very valid point...adapt, conform, survive

    I'm just learning vocabulary right now (crawling) and hope I can get into the grammatical part (stepping) cause after that I am going to fly! (Singlish poetry??? LOL)
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #233
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    I feel whether Singlish is good or bad largely depends on the context it is being used. While some may have pointed out it bonds Singaporeans together, which I agree to some extent, the ill effects of Singlish should not be forgotten also.

    For foreign members here who are not familiar with Singlish, one thing you have to note is that, it is not only about adding "lah", "leh", "meh", etc in your speeches. Singlish is also ungrammatical and pronunciations are often inaccurate. Sometimes, words are not properly enunciated and it could cause communication to break down, especially when a Singaporean tries to speak with someone who has learnt proper English.

    There are tons of examples. If anyone wants to see how bad the English standard in Singapore is, which I attribute largely to Singlish, just watch the English news at 9.30pm on Channel 5. There are bound to be interviews done in the streets. Just listen to the way the general Singaporean speaks. It is not just the uneducated but also the educated who sometimes have trouble putting their thoughts into proper English. I have to openly admit that many of our highly educated politicians and ministers also speak poor English. Only a very few can hold good conversations in English. The former PM, Lee Kwan Yew, and the present PM, Lee Hsien Loong, are 2 of them.

    To have a fair comparison, listen to how the layman in the streets of UK, Australia or US speak impromptu and you can already tell generally, Singaporeans indeed don't speak good English. If ever they do, it is often rehearsed. That's why sometimes, we find local English dramas on TV weird because their English is scripted. So they could sound unnatural as our brains know that is not how we Singaporeans tend to speak in our daily lives.

    How bad is Singlish? Ok here are some examples:

    - 3 is pronounced as "tree" instead of "tHree"
    - "I did not saw..."
    - Mixing up tenses in a speech
    - The girls is going....

    Etc etc etc. Too many to list here!

    Singlish may seem fun and good if you live the most part of your life here. But if you need to do presentations to international audience, or if like me, you do travel overseas for international conferences, you will see how bad Singlish is. I have seen too many times international audience, especially those who are native English speakers, having a hard time understanding what the hapless Singaporean speaker is trying to say. At some point, they have to be asked to repeat themselves. Or conversely, the Singaporeans themselves do not understand what the native speakers are trying to say because the former are simply not used to proper English! Maybe some of you have encountered this when you invite American or British photographers here to give talks. During Q&A, observe the puzzled looks on the speakers' faces when Singaporeans ask questions! Ok, some speak pretty good English, but you will surely easily encounter many who can't.

    It's a shame we claim to learn English as a "first language". I've seen Europeans who learn English as a 2nd or 3rd language but they can speak a lot better than us Singaporeans. Sure, some of them have their native country accents, but their English can be understood and has little or no grammatical errors. The words also flow smoothly. Singaporeans sometimes speak in a jerky start-stop manner cos I suppose it takes some effort to convert in our heads the Singlish way of speaking that we are so used to into proper English sentences.

    As for those who use fake American accents, well, maybe some of them are trying to show off. But sometimes, it's because we have become confused. Cos on the one hand, we learn Singlish but we know that's bad English. So we try to identify ourselves with the native speakers, for eg, American or British by speaking like them. Unfortunately, unless you have been brought up from young in the US or UK, it's never natural to try to speak like a native speaker while deep down, you have that Singlish inside you.
    You say Singlish must add "lah", "leh", "meh", etc. I say Singlish must always add "hor". No "hor" is no Singlish.

    We know Mr.Lees can talk good English. But Mr.Lim Swee Say talks good Singlish. Important is politicians must close to people but not talk too perfect Cambridge English like a white man.

    You say Singapore people don't talk good English. That because we have no enough Ang Moh to talk perfect English to. It's time now government let this type of FT come in:



    Sorry my English is not so good as it is not my second language. It is my 4th language. But I sell mee. People come speak English that I can't talk to I don't sell. Singapore got enough Hokkien talking people to sell to. Why I worry?

    Last edited by Sion; 27th November 2014 at 05:38 PM.

  14. #234
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Your Ang Moh snap is very nice sir however true Ang Moh has more meat on their bones...more tender than smoked pork butt. I know that language for sure. The trick is not to pay to high a price! Her daddy caught me but it didn't cost me a thing...LOL

    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 05:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikonzen View Post
    Yes I want to learn some of this Singlish. If I am going to hang out on the CS board then I am going to try and walk the walk and talk the talk the best I can. I am into expanding my world which is why I bother. You guys might have to start calling me FP (foreign poster) Starting over on the other side of the world is going to keep me from ever moving to your little red dot but I wouldn't mind visiting there someday despite whatever that girl says about her homeland.
    Don't alienate yourself by calling yourself a Foreign Poster ....just say I'm poster .............. Imposter ......

    Anyway......anyone from overseas residing here are addressed as Foreign Talent ......
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
    Not exactly 100% Natural but definitely the closest you can get to it

  16. #236
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    Don't alienate yourself by calling yourself a Foreign Poster ....just say I'm poster .............. Imposter ......

    Anyway......anyone from overseas residing here are addressed as Foreign Talent ......
    I appreciate your sentiments sir. Thank you. You could just call me Jeff if you'd like as that is my name. Call me whatever...I am here to learn and see some good snaps! You guys are way better photographers than the drivel we see over here all of the time.
    Last edited by Nikonzen; 27th November 2014 at 05:46 PM.

  17. #237
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    You say Singlish must add "lah", "leh", "meh", etc. I say Singlish must always add "hor". No "hor" is no Singlish.

    We know Mr.Lees can talk good English. But Mr.Lim Swee Say talks good Singlish. Important is politicians must close to people but not talk too perfect Cambridge English like a white man.

    You say Singapore people don't talk good English. That because we have no enough Ang Moh to talk perfect English to. It's time now government let this type of FT come in:



    Sorry my English is not so good as it is not my second language. It is my 4th language. But I sell mee. People come speak English that I can't talk to I don't sell. Singapore got enough Hokkien talking people to sell to. Why I worry?

    If you also sell mee siam and English-speaking LHL comes to buy from you ........ you can sing to him but mai hum ....
    Last edited by Zenten; 27th November 2014 at 05:47 PM.
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
    Not exactly 100% Natural but definitely the closest you can get to it

  18. #238
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten View Post
    If you also sell mee siam and English-speaking LHL comes to buy from you ........ you can sing to him but mai hum ....
    Don't worry. we can talk in Singlish Mandarin.

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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean


  20. #240
    Senior Member Nikonzen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why I am not proud to be Singaporean

    Thank you for that link Brapodam.

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