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Thread: Military Discussion : Will there be WAR in Asia ?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benign
    Yes, I was on the phone talking to him last night





    Sincerely,
    Benign

    19-04-45
    I think you must been talking on the phone wif a ghost last nite!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    I think you must been talking on the phone wif a ghost last nite!
    Look at date at the bottom of his post..

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    I suspect they wouldn't shed a tear if Mr Kim were deposed, and if the Americans and Japanese were keen enough to do the dirty work for them, so much the better!
    China wants a buffer state between American Korea and themselves. They'll probably want North Korea to remain as they are to create a buffer or take it themselves.

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    I think you must been talking on the phone wif a ghost last nite!

    Nope, if you had read the date carefully. Then you know I was telling the truth lor

    By the way, Adolf said: history in books is never a 100% truthful, but if you are smart enough....then you should know what is the motive behind the cover. If you are lucky and bold, you might just make the grade....suckers are born every minute!


    Auf Wiedersehen


    love
    Adolf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    I have a much easier time answering your question this time.
    Just think, is World War I fantasy? Is World War II fantasy? Exactly like the RISK game I played, except they don't wait for your turn.

    What benefited Germany to have involved in two wars? Why did Itay supported Germany? Why wage war at all?
    Sorry, you have answered nothing. My original contention was that China will not back N.Korea in a conflict against the US, what points have you raise to the contrary? You talk about Italy, do you really understand the background to the Italian involvement in WW2? Italy was under Moussolini, a fascist dictator at the time of the 2nd World War. Moussolini at the time was trying (as most despots do) to rouse nationalism, the 'New Roman Empire' as it were, within the country on the backdrop of a failing economy. The recourse of many a dictator is to create an external distraction intimes of an internal troubles. Being a forgotten power, they were also trying to ride on the coat-tails of the 3rd Reich to make some land grabs. As you know, the population turned on the Italian government at the end of the war, and Moussolini was captured and executed. Their involvement in the war was a disaster for the country and caused the downfall of the government.

    Unless you are suggesting that the Chinese government is as Fascist and greedy as Moussolini, you have just shown why China WILL NOT want to be involved in any conflict between N. Korea and the US. It is too costly and of little benefit.

    Anyway, I'm not getting sucked into this discussion any further, say what you will, your position is far from convincing.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaoxing
    China wants a buffer state between American Korea and themselves. They'll probably want North Korea to remain as they are to create a buffer or take it themselves.
    A buffer state with an unstable leadership and nuclear weapons? You must be kidding right? A nuclear Korea significantly increases the chance of Japan going nuclear. Which do you think China prefers, a non-nuclear Korea and Japan, or a nuclear Korea and Japan?

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Forget it dude. Film shooters will oso have their film 'kena' frm the resulting X-Rays that will render their film useless resulting in nothing but a white piece of photographic paper when developed.
    Maybe using Polaroid might help. Instant photo development.

  8. #68

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    The danger thing about a country having nuclear capability is that if it was ever attacked by another country, the last resort to 'defend' itself is to use nuclear; although that will most certainly result is the user's own destruction, given the scenario that the other country (nuclear capable as well) will retaliate in return.

    So if the US is to launch a sudden attack with its stealth jets and navy, they better get their intel right and must hit on the right spot. If not, the consequences may be fatal. For N.Korea who has got nothing much to lose, they might just play 'kamikaze' on a grandier scale.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Sorry, you have answered nothing. My original contention was that China will not back N.Korea in a conflict against the US, what points have you raise to the contrary? You talk about Italy, do you really understand the background to the Italian involvement in WW2? Italy was under Moussolini, a fascist dictator at the time of the 2nd World War. Moussolini at the time was trying (as most despots do) to rouse nationalism, the 'New Roman Empire' as it were, within the country on the backdrop of a failing economy. The recourse of many a dictator is to create an external distraction intimes of an internal troubles. Being a forgotten power, they were also trying to ride on the coat-tails of the 3rd Reich to make some land grabs. As you know, the population turned on the Italian government at the end of the war, and Moussolini was captured and executed. Their involvement in the war was a disaster for the country and caused the downfall of the government.
    I do know Moussolini, and I know General Leopold Galtieri of Argentina and Spain's Nationalists, led by Franco. Lastly my Bush of my generation. Among them Moussolini and Frano is Fascist but the end result is very different. General Leopold Gaitieri and Bush did a have war to divert their people's attention on the economic hardship at home. Did you know that Hilter's Nazi party was elected? Your reason that Italy has a fascist background, is not a good reason for war. Spain was too but did they fought against the Allies? Japan is a democratic nation pre-war but an all out invasion of China went ahead. China was once of the biggest trading partner of Japan as today but did that stop Japan?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Unless you are suggesting that the Chinese government is as Fascist and greedy as Moussolini, you have just shown why China WILL NOT want to be involved in any conflict between N. Korea and the US. It is too costly and of little benefit.

    Anyway, I'm not getting sucked into this discussion any further, say what you will, your position is far from convincing.
    The heart of China still is Communist. Do not understimate the comradeship between the two communist countries. Your ironlocked position is bad for friendly discussions. But I do agree with you, your position is far from convincing too.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Sorry, you have answered nothing. My original contention was that China will not back N.Korea in a conflict against the US, what points have you raise to the contrary?

    Nah, makes for a nice fantasy though, like those RISK board games I used to play.
    Besides, I already answered your question of such possbilities of fantasy and RISK board game. Wars happen, its real. Not fantasy.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Sorry, you have answered nothing. My original contention was that China will not back N.Korea in a conflict against the US, what points have you raise to the contrary? You talk about Italy, do you really understand the background to the Italian involvement in WW2? Italy was under Moussolini, a fascist dictator at the time of the 2nd World War. Moussolini at the time was trying (as most despots do) to rouse nationalism, the 'New Roman Empire' as it were, within the country on the backdrop of a failing economy. The recourse of many a dictator is to create an external distraction intimes of an internal troubles. Being a forgotten power, they were also trying to ride on the coat-tails of the 3rd Reich to make some land grabs. As you know, the population turned on the Italian government at the end of the war, and Moussolini was captured and executed. Their involvement in the war was a disaster for the country and caused the downfall of the government.

    Unless you are suggesting that the Chinese government is as Fascist and greedy as Moussolini, you have just shown why China WILL NOT want to be involved in any conflict between N. Korea and the US. It is too costly and of little benefit.

    Anyway, I'm not getting sucked into this discussion any further, say what you will, your position is far from convincing.
    How about US? I would like to hear your views about US possiblities of involvement in 2nd korean War. Do u think US will commit troops too?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot
    Hi Hommie,

    I beg to differ from some of your views about Macarthur. It was MacArthur who insisted on bring war to China's front. He even ignored High Command on many occasions not to bomb near Yalu River (near Chinese/Nkorean border). It was him who insisted on atomic bombing China and wanted to start WWIII. He also wanted to put back Nationalist who retreated to Taiwan to start all out frontal war with China too but he was finally sacked by the US president.
    I agree, highly possible. There are several variation to this part and though the American would not admit to MacArthur crossing the line over the Yalujiang river. MacArthur has been treated to be a war hero and his down fall is that he is still living in his own legends. American Congress have labeled him as a "Warmonger".

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    Scenario 2.1

    China involement in 2nd Korean War would be 50/50.

    The year is 2005, not 1951 under Mao Tse Tong, China ecomony is booming, new generation of Chinese are educated and the Chinese are not interested to be drag into war because another North Korea communist idealogy or unification.
    Chinese may see North Korea as a good old neighbour, but may also see the North as a burden, troublemaker, no economic value, ask for food only, and draging them into diagloue with US, South Korea and Japan.
    Who knows, Beijing leaders may secretly celebrate if US would help them to clean away the North and unifed under One Korea (better economy partner).

    Scenario 2.2

    On the other, if China back Korea, it will be TOTAL WAR for sure.

    On political front, South Korea may retalite by declaring recogniation of Taiwan as the Republic of China.
    U.S will defintely bring Taiwan into the game and Japan will find itself drag into it. Chen Shui Bian may take this oppournity (or excuse) to declare independent for Taiwan.

    On military, PLA and US/South Korea is going to be lock into an unpredicatable battle front into North Korea, a repeat of 1951 Korean War.
    China will have mobilise all her manpower, drafting people from countryside in order to sustain the heavy losses and stop the advancing US/South Korea from the Korean front.
    China Air Force have only limited new generation of aircrafts to combat American airpower, they must try their best to cover the airspaces of their logistic lines behind the Korean Front, not to combat the US fighters.
    Chinese Navy, from it present strength as now, not future, do not have the capacity to challenge US might, nor do she have the ampihious capability to bring 10 divisions to Taiwan. Should it be total WAR, it will either be sink or confine at the port or sink at the Straits of China.
    Taiwan will declare independent as she have no worries of blockage or any ampihious attempt by China.

    On Financial, the total WAR will destroy China's economy and will affect the rest of Asia. There will be economy melt down in Asia, countries like Philippines and Indonesia may face economy collapse, and the world may possible face a 2nd Great Depression.
    Forgetten to reply you, heehee....

    All your scenarios, you forgotten the possibility of carpet missile bombing from China to Japan and whoever is near. I am not sure of China's number of missiles but I pretty sure it is easy to manufacture hundreds of thousands by China's ability to mobilise the people and factories to massively produce a a few millions to flatten Japan's major cities or South Korea(if they are) and US navy. US and Japan might have the Patriots but its unlikely to catch thousands and thousands flying towards them....

  14. #74
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Forgetten to reply you, heehee....

    All your scenarios, you forgotten the possibility of carpet missile bombing from China to Japan and whoever is near. I am not sure of China's number of missiles but I pretty sure it is easy to manufacture hundreds of thousands by China's ability to mobilise the people and factories to massively produce a a few millions to flatten Japan's major cities or South Korea(if they are) and US navy. US and Japan might have the Patriots but its unlikely to catch thousands and thousands flying towards them....
    You are right than Patriots will not hold the rains of missiles from China.

    Warfare are unpredictable, it may be fought with surprise and unusual as compare to past and present warfare.

    Who knows ? What if US have an strong amount of Electro Magnetic Pulse to disable China or North Korean at the 1st hour of the war, follow by peace negotiation to be sign at the end of the 1st day.

    (Just as I say, "what if " only)
    War is one of the most regrettable human activities.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger
    You are right than Patriots will not hold the rains of missiles from China.

    Warfare are unpredictable, it may be fought with surprise and unusual as compare to past and present warfare.

    Who knows ? What if US have an strong amount of Electro Magnetic Pulse to disable China or North Korean at the 1st hour of the war, follow by peace negotiation to be sign at the end of the 1st day.

    (Just as I say, "what if " only)
    Hehehe, unlikely that US army will us EMP to disable China or North Korea first before attack because China got the exact same weapon called a EMP bomb or E bomb or a blackout bomb. In fact, US Navy should have greater fear of the bomb than China or North Korea because US has more advance technology using more electronic system from the latest F22 to the massive aircraftcarrier have relied heavily on computer systems.

    China using more dated system and relied more on manpower actually got a better advantage than US on the effect of E bomb.
    Last edited by Hommie; 17th June 2005 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Hehehe, unlikely that US army will us EMP to disable China or North Korea first before attack because China got the exact same weapon called a EMP bomb or E bomb or a blackout bomb. In fact, US Navy should have great fear of the bomb than China or North Korea because US has more advance technology using more electronic system from the latest F22 to the massive aircarrier have relied heavily on computer systems.

    China using more dated system and relied more on manpower actually got a better advantage than US on the effect of E bomb.
    What the US is fielding in combat today is 70s research tech.Never underestimate the combat capability of a nation that never fields what they are actually capable of.

    Anyone wants to see laser scorch marks in North Korean soil?Lol.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz
    What the US is fielding in combat today is 70s research tech.Never underestimate the combat capability of a nation that never fields what they are actually capable of.

    Anyone wants to see laser scorch marks in North Korean soil?Lol.
    http://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/.../theblack.html

  18. #78
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    Here's another detail specs on the E bomb. Its rather low cost to build one.

    http://www.deepspace4.com/pages/scie...mpwarheads.htm

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz
    What the US is fielding in combat today is 70s research tech.Never underestimate the combat capability of a nation that never fields what they are actually capable of.

    Anyone wants to see laser scorch marks in North Korean soil?Lol.
    Hehehe, never underestimate the capability of a nation of 1.28 billion people. Veterans from the US army describes the China's army's attack in horror as in endless wave after wave after wave.

  20. #80

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    I read this thread with much amusement

    planning to be a wartime photog

    Anyway.. here's the balancing act... US is threading.

    And here's the N.Korean view and reasoning of the situation.

    Conclusion. N.korea is just pushing it's luck as US does not want a "second Iraq" liability case to happen. US cannot afford anyone to attempt to fire a N.warhead at their "protected" countries, else it will start a global N.race. And US will not confront N.korea in conventional war too...Iraq is still very fresh in it citizens mind so a peaceful solution is still everyone's goal.

    Else likely will stall till N.Korea collaspe (a possibility written in another long article) only hoping N.korea will not hold the world hostage in the last ditch attempt to save itself. If the situation in N.korea is as described by the media, wouldn't N.korean armies surrender even before a fight so as to have a better quality of life?
    Last edited by CYRN; 17th June 2005 at 03:12 AM.
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