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Thread: Is there a big diff compare being a singaporean, a pr, or a foreigner

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by icarus
    Finally, someone who understands singaporean's sufferings!
    A PR can lose his "right" to stay and work in Singapore.

    A citizen cannot be thrown out of Singapore.

  2. #62

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    Depends on what kind of jury as well. There are obviously pros and cons to both systems.

  3. #63

    Lightbulb

    you sounded democratic in outlook. i am wondering why you did not exercise your democratic right in your native country and fight for better working prospects, etc which you find here?


    Quote Originally Posted by Emkay
    One of the things Singaporean can do (but not PR) is that you can form/join a party, get elected and make the decisions for this great country.

    If Singaporeans think that foreigners are not welcomed here to work (for economy or whatever reasons), they should get their views expressed, suggestions debated and decisions executed. It's their country after all.

    Being a PR will not have such privileges, they can only whine on forums like clubsnap

    I am a foreigner and I like to work in Singapore. But if it is the decision of majority of Singaporeans that foreigners should not come to Singapore to work for economy or other reasons, I'll respect that choice and leave this great country.

    On some of the posts I've seen here, some are not exercising their right as a citizen (i.e. exercise their political rights) even for those who have 'invested' 2.5 years of their time to serve this country, but choose to whine irresponsibly.

    That shows how shallow peoples can get. And that explain why sometime their Government choose to ignore them.

    ps:- I am not saying foreigners should or should not work in Singapore for economy reasons, but any Singaporean who think their opinions on this matters are right and there should be a change in policy for this country, they have every rights to fight for it. A P.R. can't do that, they can only leave.
    This is the biggest different between a P.R. and a Citizen (in any democratic country)

  4. #64

    Lightbulb

    do you remember the pr ex-sia pilot(malaysian citizen) whose pr was revoked and labelled 'undesirable element'?


    Quote Originally Posted by student
    A PR can lose his "right" to stay and work in Singapore.

    A citizen cannot be thrown out of Singapore.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    do you remember the pr ex-sia pilot(malaysian citizen) whose pr was revoked and labelled 'undesirable element'?
    Yup, u said it!

  6. #66
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    i guess on the issue of differences..each will have their own say...

    a singaporean's idea will differ frm those of a foreigner's

    it's just going in a cycle.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Please do not misunderstand by post as been intolerant of foreigners. Just that recently i been trying to get a flat and realise that even for new flat it is still very expensive. Although resale flat is expensive as well, it comes with renovation, etc, so the diff to an extent is not significant. Been a singaporean ,I was expecting more subsidy on new flats. It is amazing how the price keeps going up and the area keeps getting smaller.
    I have been looking for a resale flat for some time and have seen quite a few flats till now. Generally the flats in old buildings require renovation and these in the new buildings (5 - 8 yrs old) are quite expensive (and still often require a simple renovation). And this despite it being "buyers market" now. So please don't underestimate your eligibility for a new HDB, the grant and HDB home loan. Me and my wife would love to be offered these privileges but we are both PRs so we can only get a resale flat at market price and a commercial bank loan. On top of that, if we buy a flat and the block is selected for a lift or major upgrade, as PRs we would have to pay 100% while Singaporeans enjoy a huge discount.

    I am not whining, I just want to point out that regarding housing Singaporeans enjoy quite some advantages over PRs but most of you guys don't seem to appreciate that.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Is someone who lives, works, and wants to retire in Singapore, maybe raises a family here, and loves Singapore a foreigner, just because the IC isn't pink? Isn't Singapore more of a home to him/her than to a Singapore citizen living as a PR in Australia or the US?
    Depends, at the end of the day, it is not just about living and dying of old age here, but the willingness to lay down his/her live for the country when there are problems. i.e. Loyalty and contributions that count.

    There will be the ones (even singaporean) who will fly out. And there will be foreigners/singaporean that stay/come back to help as well.

    Anyway, whatever it is, every countries in the world need foreigners, PR, citizens that contribute and not "rob"/waste the countries' resources.

    Singapore being so small - not talking about physical size, definitely needs an open policy. Every countries need to have a big population/marketplace to be vibrant which results in more jobs etc etc no longer the days where "2 is enough".

  9. #69

    Lightbulb

    '2 is enough' policy initiated by lky was a bad policy, with hind sights. we are paying dearly for the unintended consequences brought about by such policy.


    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    Depends, at the end of the day, it is not just about living and dying of old age here, but the willingness to lay down his/her live for the country when there are problems. i.e. Loyalty and contributions that count.

    There will be the ones (even singaporean) who will fly out. And there will be foreigners/singaporean that stay/come back to help as well.

    Anyway, whatever it is, every countries in the world need foreigners, PR, citizens that contribute and not "rob"/waste the countries' resources.

    Singapore being so small - not talking about physical size, definitely needs an open policy. Every countries need to have a big population/marketplace to be vibrant which results in more jobs etc etc no longer the days where "2 is enough".

  10. #70

    Lightbulb

    on the flip side, the hdb property bubble was created as a result of their policies in the mid 1990s. those who bought hdb flats then are suffering negative equity now. many are still paying for the flats. i remembered political leaders saying that hdb flats are good investment. wished i did not listen to them. 'more good years' was once an election manifesto. it was quietly dropped after the country was hit by many economic crises. election tool to bolster confidence or short-sightedness?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bromba
    I have been looking for a resale flat for some time and have seen quite a few flats till now. Generally the flats in old buildings require renovation and these in the new buildings (5 - 8 yrs old) are quite expensive (and still often require a simple renovation). And this despite it being "buyers market" now. So please don't underestimate your eligibility for a new HDB, the grant and HDB home loan. Me and my wife would love to be offered these privileges but we are both PRs so we can only get a resale flat at market price and a commercial bank loan. On top of that, if we buy a flat and the block is selected for a lift or major upgrade, as PRs we would have to pay 100% while Singaporeans enjoy a huge discount.

    I am not whining, I just want to point out that regarding housing Singaporeans enjoy quite some advantages over PRs but most of you guys don't seem to appreciate that.
    Last edited by reachme2003; 10th June 2005 at 05:39 PM.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ah Pao
    Singapore is built on immigrants, then and now. There's no difference then and now that Singapore needs foreigners to survive, be in expats or PRs.

    A lot of discussion seems to be hinged on the issue of NS. Being a citizen means the extra responsibility to protect your home, like it or not. Practically this translate having to serve in NS. If a citizen doesn't do it, who will? If you don't feel compelled to protect your homeland, then I'm sorry, no one can make you feel compelled, since it's "someone else's business". Singapore would then be just a place to earn your retirement funds and migrate somewhere.

    Singapore has to work within the limitations of being a small country with no natural resources and a small population. Being prudent and shrewd is the key to survival. We need foreigners to run the economy engine. If there is no incentive to attract them, then who will come? If every married couple gives birth to 4 children or more (hypothetical figure), then maybe we don't need to attract foreigners. If every Singaporean is a multi-talented sportsman cum businessman cum artist cum everything else, maybe we don't need foreigners. Singapore is a meritocratic country; if you are good and can contribute to the country, then you are welcome.

    Let's face it, foreigners is and will always be a part of Singapore, like it or not. In fact, I have many M'sian, Indo, PRC and Mauritius friends and although I won't say I like them all, many of them are my good friends.
    Sound very humane.....good! There is still some locals who are not sure how their country was built. Well whining is part of their hobby......which is why the Goverment just close one eye on their whining.

    Hmm....there is a little more differance between a local and a PR. I met this guy who is a local and has degree in Computer Engineering and a fresh grad. He went to one interview. The interview offered him $1,800 per month with 1 month fix bonus. 5 days a week. He rejected saying that pay is TOO low and office too far away from home.

    Then came not 1 but 2 Indian Nationals who are a PRs with the same qualifications (as the local guy) with experience. Instead of interviewer offer them, they counter offer the interviewer $1,500 per month, willing to work 6 days with OT and no bonus is ok.

    At the end of the day, the interviewer still call up this local guy to see if he still wants the job. He rejected him flat down. Now he is working with less pay and complaining about not taking up the job!

    Not to look down on locals but it seems this kinda of thing is still happening until today. Any PR or foreign worker would grab this opportunity. Not saying their countries (foreigners) economy is that bad but given an opportunity/chance I myself would grab it too. It's just that we want to have a different perspective view to it. It's not a ashame to leave your home soil and work in another country. In fact it's great experience to see and learn other countries cultural as well.

    That's why Goverment are still opening doors to foreigners so that local people can learn their expertise and put to great use. Look at the China market, they are opening doors not to local but also many foreign talents.

    Peace in this world!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromba
    I have been looking for a resale flat for some time and have seen quite a few flats till now. Generally the flats in old buildings require renovation and these in the new buildings (5 - 8 yrs old) are quite expensive (and still often require a simple renovation). And this despite it being "buyers market" now. So please don't underestimate your eligibility for a new HDB, the grant and HDB home loan. Me and my wife would love to be offered these privileges but we are both PRs so we can only get a resale flat at market price and a commercial bank loan. On top of that, if we buy a flat and the block is selected for a lift or major upgrade, as PRs we would have to pay 100% while Singaporeans enjoy a huge discount.

    I am not whining, I just want to point out that regarding housing Singaporeans enjoy quite some advantages over PRs but most of you guys don't seem to appreciate that.
    Actually its quite interesting regarding the "huge" discount, my opinion is that it is not that huge afterall.
    First, land prices, even if HDB has to pay the government for leasing the land, its only right pocket going into left pocket, so the government should not say that it is government heavily or hugely subsidised flats, it will be when a HDB flats cost only $200K max (i.e. paying for the building alone and not the land as well, afterall it still belong to the government). So we are enjoying HDB subsidised flats i.e. HDB as a company is subsidising us. ha ha, of course HDB is a government board so that's why its government subsidised flat.

    back in the 1998, when I was looking for a flat. I was offerred a new HDB flat in woodlands area, floor area ranges from 135-140 square metre costing $350K to $400K (executives flats - not the heavily subsidised ones - location may not be ideal depending on your queue number), whereas a resale flat in Pasir Ris 145-150 square metre, costs $460K and above. At that year, there are not much ammenities in woodlands, looking at these kind of prices, I wouldn't say that the new flats are heavily subsidised or attractive. Fair enough, government does not want to subsidise bigger excutive flats. I believe these causes the glut now, a lot of people gave up the wait and went for the resale flat (even if you don't take the grant), since it is no longer attractively price

    The 4 rooms seemed to be heavily subsidised but bear in mind the floor area. Currently, a resale 4rm in pasir ris, 105 sq metre, is $230K - $280K (based on sales flyers from housing agent). How much are the New 5 rooms that are 105-125 sq metre now? heavily subsidised?

    yes it is subsidised but not heavily. also during those few years in 1998, you have to wait a few years to get a new HDB flat, not worth it.

    In the good old days, 15 years back, that's 1990, an HDB executive apartment 145 sq metre in pasir ris cost around $110K - $130K, now that's heavily subsidised.

    But still nothing to grumble, 1) at least there are roofs over our head. But more importantly, HDB does maintain the public housing. (notice how badly maintained are those oversea public houses) I know we paid for some of it.

    2) Also, everyone wants a good pay right? you think civil servants will work for peanuts and really accept servants' pay. All those salary will add to all the cost as well. The day when HDB prices falls to those in the 1990 and earlier, will be the day when everyone gets at least a 50% pay cut to balance the equation.
    Last edited by pcwe68; 10th June 2005 at 03:39 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    '2 is enough' policy initiated by lky was a bad policy, with hind sights. we are paying dearly for the unintended consequences brought about by such policy.

    I think during those times, a lot of governments are concerned about over population. hee hee

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades
    Then came not 1 but 2 Indian Nationals who are a PRs with the same qualifications (as the local guy) with experience. Instead of interviewer offer them, they counter offer the interviewer $1,500 per month, willing to work 6 days with OT and no bonus is ok.

    Peace in this world!
    I was once told that Indian IT professional can make 6 times more income here than back at home.. (that was 4-5 yrs back, pls take it with grain of salt). I would die die want to work in another country if got such offer.. 6 days with OT (w/o OT pay), no bonus is alright!

    Mind you, we are not talking about going to work in 3rd world country or war zone. Given this great opportunity, how to reject?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades
    There is still some locals who are not sure how their country was built. Well whining is part of their hobby......which is why the Goverment just close one eye on their whining.
    LOL! How can govt close eye when they want us to speak out?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    I think during those times, a lot of governments are concerned about over population. hee hee
    I think so, due to post war baby boom?

  16. #76

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    Actually, if all the foreign workers were to leave Singapore now, a lot of departments and sectors would probably close down; such as in the field of life sciences and IT in Singapore which are very heavilly staffed by workers from the PRC and India, respectively. So, in essence there is huge dependance on foreign workers here, not because the locals are underqualified, but because a lot of Singaporeans are very dissatisfied with salaries and the government and have gone overseas to work, or are waiting for the chance to do so (or so I gather from talking to a lot of my Singaporean colleagues)

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    A PR can lose his "right" to stay and work in Singapore.

    A citizen cannot be thrown out of Singapore.

    Who said a citizen cannot be thrown out of Singapore? I do not wish to highlight which 2 cases, go n read up the past history in Singapore.

    Will the non-citizen stay back to defence our country when are in trouble?

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdie01
    Will the non-citizen stay back to defence our country when are in trouble?
    I think the answer to that is fairly obvious




    Run, Forrest, run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Guys if you have the opportunity, you should try working in other countries as well.....to experience the big differance from Singapore.

    I have work in Australia before. I am a Malaysian who works in Malaysia too. Now I am PR in Singapore. The best is to try out and you will feel the differance.

    Alhough I do not get the privelage as a true Singaporean but I have too say that it's nice to work here as I have made many good friends.
    hi...may i knw how's the feeling working in AUS? just curious...coz i just went to AUS for holiday and find the place quite nice.....i knw is abit Ot but hope u all dun mind

  20. #80

    Lightbulb

    kindly throw some light on the 2 cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by birdie01
    Who said a citizen cannot be thrown out of Singapore? I do not wish to highlight which 2 cases, go n read up the past history in Singapore.

    Will the non-citizen stay back to defence our country when are in trouble?
    Last edited by reachme2003; 10th June 2005 at 06:04 PM.

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