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Thread: Riot at Little India now !!

  1. #261
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    They were be running for their lives. It's not the time to play hero.
    Of Course.... John Rambo was not there..

    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  2. #262
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    They are running away so as to proudly avoid firing their weapon. I wonder if this is going to be the Standard Operating Procedure for all armed personnel.
    They can say what they want.....

    I just worried that the world now know how "STRONG" our police are...........
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  3. #263
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Need some internal review within the Police about leadership on the ground.

    When hooligans see the law running away from them, they are emboldened. Those not yet in the riot are encouraged when they see this, to join in.
    I read the Yahoo interview the ex-riot police.... He said if they rush the rioter and break them up... it would not have escalated into what it was....

    I believe if LKY is still in power.. the Police would have given the order to "Charge" at the rioter.....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  4. #264

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    I read the Yahoo interview the ex-riot police.... He said if they rush the rioter and break them up... it would not have escalated into what it was....

    I believe if LKY is still in power.. the Police would have given the order to "Charge" at the rioter.....
    i also dont know how people always like to link LKY, LHL to every thing that happen in Singapore. ok la, they are the biggest here, but you think they so free can make every single decision meh? then they need ministers and police commissioners for what. might as well they just rule the country themselves

    say everybody also know how to say. but you are at the situation, facing 400 people, never see riot before, you dare to anyhow chiong not? how he know he charge will break them up leh? he also never kena before what

  5. #265
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
    I support the policemen no matter what they do (running or not running, firing or not firing etc). None of us were at the scene. It's easy to say they should have done this, they should have done that now because we are sitting comfortably behind our keyboard.

    Our country's low crime rate didnt come naturally. The police force definitely plays a big role in keeping the country safe. The last thing they need now is our own people bashing them.
    It is interesting when yahoo posted the article...

    "COMMENT: We still don’t know what really happened on Sunday night"

    http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singa...173537714.html
    Kirsten Han is a Singaporean blogger, journalist and filmmaker. She is also involved in the We Believe in Second Chances campaign for the abolishment of the death penalty. A social media junkie, she tweets at @kixes. The views expressed are her own.

    COMMENT

    In the next few days, there will be a hunger for facts from the riot in Little India. Many questions will need to be answered, and much that investigators will have to clear up as the Committee of Inquiry proceeds.

    But one fact that has been revealed – that the deceased Sakthivel Kumaravelu was drunk and rowdy – does not the whole truth make.

    According to STOMP, the police revealed that Mr Kumaravelu was drunk when he tried to board the already-full bus before his death. This was picked up by local press publications such as My Paper. “He even dropped his trousers,” the STOMP article adds helpfully.

    It's no doubt interesting to a press and public hungry for detail, any detail, of Sunday night’s incident. But of all the facts that we needed to know, this wasn't one of them. At least, not in the way it’s been released in isolation for the people to make a meal of.

    It no longer matters that Mr Kumaravelu was drunk. It matters that he is dead.

    People get drunk and do stupid things. Occasionally, these stupid things result in death. If that’s what the investigators are trying to say, then they should also explain how Mr Kumaravelu’s state led to him ending up under a bus. We also need to hear the Singaporean bus driver's version of events, and that of his female assistant time-keeper.

    Revealing and dwelling on the fact of Kumaravelu's drunkenness in isolation suggests that he was somehow responsible for his own demise. He could very well be, but it also smacks of victim-blaming, and doesn’t explain anything about what really happened on Sunday night.

    It also plays into the currently adopted narrative that this whole episode was merely caused by rowdy migrant workers pissed on alcohol. We are encouraged to interpret this as a one-off incident of a wasted “unruly mob” running amok on Race Course Road. They very well could have been, but is there more?

    The knee-jerk reaction of imposing a temporary ban on the sale and consumption of alcohol in that particular part of Little India serves to support this narrative, giving people the impression that this is somehow part of the solution to the problem.

    It would be a mistake to do so.

    Focusing on Mr Kumaravelu’s drinking reveals a lack of concern for a man who met a tragic end, reducing him to little more than a random drunken Indian who was probably somehow responsible for all this trouble.

    Such a simplistic reading of the situation would be throwing away an opportunity to examine deeper divisions within Singapore.
    Only those who were there knows.... and what was the sparks that caused it to turn into a riot? What was conversed between police and the Indian FW? How did the accident happened? Was the victim really drunk?

    But there also seem to be quite a bit of cover up from our media... if no alternative media spread this out first, would the CNA also be forced to report the riot??

    Am I bashing the local police??

    I am just concern when I see Police taking a hike..... will they be protecting themselves before the citizens if the citizens were threaten?

    I am sure many citizens will ask this question too........

    Our Mission (SPF)

    http://www.spf.gov.sg/abtspf/mission.htm

    "In this dynamic and rapidly changing environment, the Singapore Police Force’s core function is to protect the people who live in Singapore from crime and all manner of criminal harm. Crime in SPF’s context include terrorism and public disorder. In order to achieve this, we apply the strategies of Prevention, Deterrence and Detection. As crime is generally defined by the inclusion of two key ingredients: mens rea (the guilty mind), and actus rea (the guilty act), the twin strategies of Prevention and Deterrence act to deny these two key ingredients of crime; the former strategy stops the criminal intent from being formed, while the latter denies opportunities for the criminal act to be realised. The final strategy of Detection is a mitigating strategy that reduces the damage resulting from the crime.



    Last updated: 10 Dec 2012"
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  6. #266

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    They can say what they want.....

    I just worried that the world now know how "STRONG" our police are...........
    now you scared police throw your face right

    see, people like to criticise the govt for every little small thing online, when they themselves never try to make any change. then when other country get to know our ugly side, people start to get angry. ironic hor

  7. #267

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    It is interesting when yahoo posted the article...

    "COMMENT: We still don’t know what really happened on Sunday night"



    Only those who were there knows.... and what was the sparks that caused it to turn into a riot? What was conversed between police and the Indian FW? How did the accident happened? Was the victim really drunk?

    But there also seem to be quite a bit of cover up from our media... if no alternative media spread this out first, would the CNA also be forced to report the riot??

    Am I bashing the local police??

    I am just concern when I see Police taking a hike..... will they be protecting themselves before the citizens if the citizens were threaten?

    I am sure many citizens will ask this question too........
    i don't like to read the news on Yahoo, because there's too much speculation, too much assumptions and also sensationalizing of news.

    while everyone has their own take, i for one will never put my 100% trust in Yahoo News or TNP.

    while they accuse mainstream media of cover ups and lies, they themselves try to use clever words to sway public opinion.

    hypocrisy much?

  8. #268
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by shiosaki View Post
    i also dont know how people always like to link LKY, LHL to every thing that happen in Singapore. ok la, they are the biggest here, but you think they so free can make every single decision meh? then they need ministers and police commissioners for what. might as well they just rule the country themselves

    say everybody also know how to say. but you are at the situation, facing 400 people, never see riot before, you dare to anyhow chiong not? how he know he charge will break them up leh? he also never kena before what
    Have you read this??

    Whenever Roy Steven Danker was on standby as a riot police man in Singapore back in the 1960s, he would sleep in his boots waiting for the emergency bell to ring.

    Doing so was a small discomfort for him because when riots were raging – and they frequently did at that time – riot squad officers sometimes had to go 72 hours without getting a wink.

    Danker, now 68 years old, more than 40 years on from his time serving as a senior police officer in the then-named Riot Squad's Red Scorpions (Alpha Troops), still remembers spending full days running from place to place, armed with a wicket shield, a revolver, a baton and either a rifle or a gas grenade launcher, as he cordoned and rounded up rioters with nylon string.

    "In those days, one person would arrest three to four people, and we had to use tear gas, while wearing respirator masks. That would send them haywire," he told Yahoo Singapore in a phone interview from Batam, Indonesia, where he now lives.

    Singapore's then-named riot squad practicing drills in formation during the 1960s. (Photo courtesy of Roy Dank …

    He said he faced "anywhere between 30 and 50" episodes of rioting and unrest in the roughly eight years he served (between 1964 and 1971) with the riot squad. Having lost around 10 of his good friends in the line of duty and himself having had numerous close brushes with death, the incidents then have burnt themselves into his memory.

    Of these, he dealt with slightly fewer than 10 larger-scale riots, including the 1964 and 1969 racial riots, as well as what he calls the "Chinese school riots" around the middle of that decade.

    He recalls one particular day when students took to Singapore's old District Court building at Empress Place, near Pickering Street, and he was among the first responders to the riot that started there.

    "We were told that these are schoolchildren, do not use force on them," he said, adding that they were told to leave their sidearms and rifles inside the command vehicle that accompanied them. "There were a lot of girls, who took ground fresh chili and threw it at our faces… we were blinded, and then the boys took over, whacking us with sticks and poles. Thank God we had our helmets on," he added.

    Members of Singapore's riot squad standing in formation in the 1960s, in a different set of uniform. (Photo courtesy …

    That day, he says he personally sustained injuries to his knees, back, spine and shoulders, while others were warded in hospital. He was fortunate enough to escape without any broken bones, but many of his colleagues, upon release, went right back to the streets and into the thick of the action.

    "We didn't like staying in hospital or being out of action for long, really," he said. "Even if the doctor offered us one or two days' MC, we'd just take the medicine and go!"

    When not dealing with an actual riot, Danker said the riot squad officers also did coastal patrolling and traffic policing.

    "We did practically everything in those days," he said. "We were really the backbone of the Singapore police force."
    A section of Singapore's riot squad pose together with their shields for a group photograph. Roy Danker is in the …
    Asked for his views on Sunday's riot in Little India, where about 400 South Asian workers mobbed a bus that ran over and killed an Indian national, Danker said he was shocked that so many police and emergency vehicles were damaged and burnt.

    "I don't know what the procedure is now but our jobs were to protect lives and public property… we would have guarded the vehicles at all costs," he said. "Back then, we had lorry guards whose job it was to protect our command vehicles — when there was a threat (to the vehicles), they would sound a signal that would recall all of us to form up around the vehicles with our shields. We wouldn't have let that (the damage of police and emergency vehicles) happen."
    Former riot policeman Roy Danker in a more recent photo. He is now 68 years old, and resides in Batam. (Photo courtesy …
    That said, he hopes Singapore's current special operations command forces will learn from this and improve their approach should their services be required again in the future.

    "It's a 'who dares wins' situation," he said. "If they ran forward with their shields and tear gas, they would have easily been able to throw them (the rioters) haywire, and prevent things from spiralling so far out of control."
    SG last riots in 1960s.......

    Communal riots of 1964

    Singapore went through racial or communal riots between Malays and Chinese over two five-day periods beginning on 21 July and 2 September 1964 respectively. These riots, the worst and most prolonged in Singapore's post-war history, erupted after Singapore merged with the Federation of Malaysia. There were 22 deaths and 461 injured.

    http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_45_2005-01-06.html
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  9. #269
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by shiosaki View Post
    now you scared police throw your face right

    see, people like to criticise the govt for every little small thing online, when they themselves never try to make any change. then when other country get to know our ugly side, people start to get angry. ironic hor
    You have to understand what I meant in the first place.
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  10. #270
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    i don't like to read the news on Yahoo, because there's too much speculation, too much assumptions and also sensationalizing of news.

    while everyone has their own take, i for one will never put my 100% trust in Yahoo News or TNP.

    while they accuse mainstream media of cover ups and lies, they themselves try to use clever words to sway public opinion.

    hypocrisy much?
    I don't trust all media.... I extract the information and decide for myself which is more trustworthy.

    Do you know all the details from anyone source of the riots?

    Not much... and government are asking us not to speculate... so it does arouses even more questions.....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  11. #271

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Did anyone see any photos or videos on how the 300 officers - from the Special Operations Command and the Gurkha Contingent brought the riot under control?

    Does it mean that these 400 rioters squalled down, hands over their heads, let the police hand cuffed without any resistance when they saw the Special Operations Command and the Gurkha Contingent arrived?

    Was there any force used by the police such as beating the rioters using batons, etc so that they can be apprehanded?

  12. #272

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    After receiving the call that a fatal traffic accident had occurred at Little India which resulted in rioting. 4-5 police cars arrived. Normally, for fatal traffic accident, you don't see 4-5 police cars unless it is homicide or other serious crimes (arm robbery, etc). There were at least 8 police officers given the no. of police cars arrived at the scene. There will be a Team Leader in the squad.

    While the SCDF personnel were trying to extricate the body under the wheel of the bus, the rioters turned hostile towards them as well as the police. The question remains unanswered on why these rioters suddenly turned their attention towards the SCDF personnel and the police? Intially, the violent was towards the bus and the driver. What caused the shift of focus?

    Next, when the emotion started to run high, did the police use the loud speakers from their patrol cars to inform the rioters that it is a serious offence to use violent and rioting? Request them to disperse immediately, etc. Was their any Indian police offers in the squad? It is always good to have a native person who can use the familiar language such as Tamil to speak to the rioters.

  13. #273
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
    I support the policemen no matter what they do (running or not running, firing or not firing etc). None of us were at the scene. It's easy to say they should have done this, they should have done that now because we are sitting comfortably behind our keyboard.

    Our country's low crime rate didnt come naturally. The police force definitely plays a big role in keeping the country safe. The last thing they need now is our own people bashing them.
    I agree with you.

    Let me just add a little possible reason for those arm chair commentators who 'think' they know why they police ran away from a tense situation like a burning vehicle or group of rioters. Let me give you another possible reasons for this. Like myself, I serve in the National Service in the Police Force. Have you ever wonder how many NS men serve in the Police force in the ratio of regualrs officer versus NS men? given how rare a riot has occur... Even regular officers, how many are prepared mentally and physically to handle an angry mob LEFT ALONE NS men? Imagine NS men gets severely beat up or kill, what you think arm chair commentators here will be saying in the aftermath or their parents? Same goes for inexperience regular police officers. If even half those first line officers there are NS men.. that already is not good.... worst they are newbies. A large ratio of officers in the force are actually more NS men then regulars.

    I am not surprise if police command on the scene withdrawing (in-experience) officers even before sending in riot police officers . If they retreated as ordered, that is possibly a good move as opposed to leaving them (with their firearms) there to hold the fort (badly) while awaiting reinforcement riot police. Even properly trained riot officers has nothing but simulated riot drills practices to prepare them in their base camp. It's still not enough to prepare them for an actual riot where they actually have to get physical violent with others and others onto them. If there are hesitation .. I would not be surprised. But would they all fail in their duties. NO. Would some falter, I am sure there are as I have seen when I was serving my Police NS. Even I screw up dealing with the public in uniform especially as a newbie but I learn. As will those who faced this riot.

    We need to appreciate one thing as we debate, praise or ridicule this riot or police, those people in uniform are our own someone's son, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, cousin..etc. these are not OUTSIDERS we employ to be in uniform. While they are there facing the rioters, I doubt they are thinking about ***, politics, bad leaders or what's not. So please give them some consideration and not always think everyone in uniform are THEM and not one of us. THEM are actually our own. There are injured officers that were sent to hospitals... You want to call them cowards or garment's stools? Just like there were opportunists who exploited quite possibly the accident to escalate it to a riot stage but then again so do we in this forum have people here using this to escalate their dislike for their own political negativism. I am not for or against what happen during the riot but I like people to think there is another side to seeing this as well.
    Last edited by sammy888; 13th December 2013 at 06:40 AM.

  14. #274
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Default

    Hmmm after a week, it is still a hot tropic here. You got to be there to understand and appreciate the person handling the matter.

    When force is being used, people complain too brutal. When no force, people say they are toothless. If you are standing there facing 20 angry people, you need that experience to handle them. Don't forget, it is the lowest rank officers that were have to respond first to most incident.

    As a general public, we should assist the police. Maybe this is something our SPF would like to work on. Get the public to help in such situation. Police can ask the public to help disperse crowd. Direct human traffic away from road so that ambulance can access to help.

    Just a wild thought.

  15. #275

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by d2xpeter View Post
    How about Yappy? LOL
    留得青山在 哪怕无柴烧

    He who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day
    Last edited by Yappy; 13th December 2013 at 09:28 AM.

  16. #276

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Hmmm after a week, it is still a hot tropic here. You got to be there to understand and appreciate the person handling the matter.

    When force is being used, people complain too brutal. When no force, people say they are toothless. If you are standing there facing 20 angry people, you need that experience to handle them. Don't forget, it is the lowest rank officers that were have to respond first to most incident.

    As a general public, we should assist the police. Maybe this is something our SPF would like to work on. Get the public to help in such situation. Police can ask the public to help disperse crowd. Direct human traffic away from road so that ambulance can access to help.

    Just a wild thought.
    You are right.

    Only when you were there then you would face the music. Yes you only faced a portion of the reported 400.. say 10%^, you are facing 40 angry ..... what would you do?

    1. stay and fight and died as a Hero.. hero die young!
    2. He who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day

  17. #277

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    ..

    Hi samy888,

    I fully agreed with you.

    Those police officer and SCDF personel are somehow related to us.
    Their well being are our concern.
    Many of them were hurt and can you imagine if they were the one dear to you.
    Leaving the scene at the point in time was a wise move.

    Let's take it as a lesson learnt.

  18. #278

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by d2xpeter View Post
    running for their life, ya?

    lets hope that gov will not do the same thing when country is in disaster. LOL
    could be my selfish thought. It is a dilemma. On one hand i said it is wisdom. On the other, i said no.
    Haiz
    ..what is your hidden agenda?

    ... just wish that you were one of them in the ambulance and I assume that you would stay in the burning ambulance!

  19. #279

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    ..what is your hidden agenda?

    ... just wish that you were one of them in the ambulance and I assume that you would stay in the burning ambulance!
    Hi Yappy I think you should not attack at personal level , this thread is very good and informative . If everyone start at personal level ,this thread will be closed by moderator so pls restraint yourself .

  20. #280

    Default Re: Riot at Little India now !!

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    I agree with you.

    Let me just add a little possible reason for those arm chair commentators who 'think' they know why they police ran away from a tense situation like a burning vehicle or group of rioters. Let me give you another possible reasons for this. Like myself, I serve in the National Service in the Police Force. Have you ever wonder how many NS men serve in the Police force in the ratio of regualrs officer versus NS men? given how rare a riot has occur... Even regular officers, how many are prepared mentally and physically to handle an angry mob LEFT ALONE NS men? Imagine NS men gets severely beat up or kill, what you think arm chair commentators here will be saying in the aftermath or their parents? Same goes for inexperience regular police officers. If even half those first line officers there are NS men.. that already is not good.... worst they are newbies. A large ratio of officers in the force are actually more NS men then regulars.

    I am not surprise if police command on the scene withdrawing (in-experience) officers even before sending in riot police officers . If they retreated as ordered, that is possibly a good move as opposed to leaving them (with their firearms) there to hold the fort (badly) while awaiting reinforcement riot police. Even properly trained riot officers has nothing but simulated riot drills practices to prepare them in their base camp. It's still not enough to prepare them for an actual riot where they actually have to get physical violent with others and others onto them. If there are hesitation .. I would not be surprised. But would they all fail in their duties. NO. Would some falter, I am sure there are as I have seen when I was serving my Police NS. Even I screw up dealing with the public in uniform especially as a newbie but I learn. As will those who faced this riot.

    We need to appreciate one thing as we debate, praise or ridicule this riot or police, those people in uniform are our own someone's son, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, cousin..etc. these are not OUTSIDERS we employ to be in uniform. While they are there facing the rioters, I doubt they are thinking about ***, politics, bad leaders or what's not. So please give them some consideration and not always think everyone in uniform are THEM and not one of us. THEM are actually our own. There are injured officers that were sent to hospitals... You want to call them cowards or garment's stools? Just like there were opportunists who exploited quite possibly the accident to escalate it to a riot stage but then again so do we in this forum have people here using this to escalate their dislike for their own political negativism. I am not for or against what happen during the riot but I like people to think there is another side to seeing this as well.
    hi Sammy888 this is a very good write up, fully agreed with you

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