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Thread: Win liao lo! Private buses also want price hike liao!!!

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao
    Can afford $$$$$ cameras and accessories, but cannot pay $ more for your already dirt cheap public transport.

    not everybody mah...i dun even have a damn camera...hahaha
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao
    Can afford $$$$$ cameras and accessories, but cannot pay $ more for your already dirt cheap public transport.
    I do agree that the increment is not going to make much of diff to most commuters. The increment should be less than $2 /mth for most people.
    However what i am piss off is that despite the increment, the standard of bus service has not improve. Bus intervals are irregular, sometimes over 15 minutes if you miss the previous bus. At peak hours buses and trains are over pack and yet you don't the buses comes at a shorter interval.

    Another annoying thing is that the reason they use to justify it. Each time is the same excuse about operating cost, etc. But how about revenue from TVMobile, posters at bus-stop, rental areas at station, etc? Oil price is another issue and yet you don't see them reducing price even though when price drop. At the economy downturn, all they did is just "not to increase" the price rather than decrease the price. Then there is always is stupid statistic that say that Singapore transport is the most afforable in the world. I feel that this is totally trying to pull a fast one because other countries may have more expensive public transport, but the cost of owning cars may be lower, roads may be more cyclist friendly, road taxes are lower, etc. So to me that is really a crap way to justify increment. If they want to increase price, at least make an effort to come up with better excuses lar.

  3. #23
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    by private bus, i think it includes school bus and company bus. imagine a low income malay family (i am not being racist here, i hope you guys understand, malay family is larger than chinese .) with 3-4 kids , die man.

    also, if the public transport company can give crappy reasons to incerase the fare, why cant the private operator, cant have double std mah.

    for those self employed eg food seller, they will increase their price to cope (cant blame them right).

    but for those employed, wait long long for pay increase also dont have. why is this so? cause the "drivers" all agree that for singpaore to stay competative, workers salary was to be low.

    cant agree on the point where we can afford camera stuff, what is this little fare hike. do you work to live or live to work. do you want at the end of day, when you finally packup and migrate to the "better world", just before boarding, when you look back, dam, you are no different from a donky, or water buffolo?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee
    by private bus, i think it includes school bus and company bus. imagine a low income malay family (i am not being racist here, i hope you guys understand, malay family is larger than chinese .) with 3-4 kids , die man.

    also, if the public transport company can give crappy reasons to incerase the fare, why cant the private operator, cant have double std mah.

    for those self employed eg food seller, they will increase their price to cope (cant blame them right).

    but for those employed, wait long long for pay increase also dont have. why is this so? cause the "drivers" all agree that for singpaore to stay competative, workers salary was to be low.

    cant agree on the point where we can afford camera stuff, what is this little fare hike. do you work to live or live to work. do you want at the end of day, when you finally packup and migrate to the "better world", just before boarding, when you look back, dam, you are no different from a donky, or water buffolo?
    If a poor large family struggling to pay bills complains about the hike, I think there is justification and they are deserving of some help. Not necessarily fare control, which is eminently affordable for the majority, but targeted aid for the under-privileged so that they can get along on other fronts as well. For photogs who have invested many hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into their equipment, and then gripe about a few cents of MRT fare increase, is just plain ridiculous. Reminds me of the time during the economic recession when some families were demanding social assistance, and at the same time maintaining a maid at home to the tune of $700-$800 a month. That's public money being used to help someone maintian a cushy lifestyle, not aid for the needy.

    Likewise, any fare control will likely in the long run, mean the use of public funds to run the transport system, so that many of the folk here can continue to buy their faster CF card or the latest tripod.

    Sorry, no sympathy from me.....

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    If a poor large family struggling to pay bills complains about the hike, I think there is justification and they are deserving of some help. Not necessarily fare control, which is eminently affordable for the majority, but targeted aid for the under-privileged so that they can get along on other fronts as well. For photogs who have invested many hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into their equipment, and then gripe about a few cents of MRT fare increase, is just plain ridiculous. Reminds me of the time during the economic recession when some families were demanding social assistance, and at the same time maintaining a maid at home to the tune of $700-$800 a month. That's public money being used to help someone maintian a cushy lifestyle, not aid for the needy.

    Likewise, any fare control will likely in the long run, mean the use of public funds to run the transport system, so that many of the folk here can continue to buy their faster CF card or the latest tripod.

    Sorry, no sympathy from me.....
    i think it is not the amount that is the real issue but how do you justify it. If nobody make noise, then bus and mrt will just do it often (ie. ask for fare hike). Even now everyone make noise, it can still be seen that the whole process of passing the proposal on fare hike is still not very transparent.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Reminds me of the time during the economic recession when some families were demanding social assistance, and at the same time maintaining a maid at home to the tune of $700-$800 a month. That's public money being used to help someone maintian a cushy lifestyle, not aid for the needy.
    Say if both parents have to work to feed the family, and need a maid to take care of two young kids and one ill grandparent at home.. do you consider that as "cushy lifestyle"?

  7. #27

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    Sometimes the financial burden of families can't be seen from the surface. Of course, I'm not referring to those families who complain about no money and yet they indulge in weekend fine dining and shopping. It's often those below the poverty line that goes unnoticed about their predicament. And they don't anyhow stretch out their hands for assistance, becos of the honorable belief of self sufficiency and dignity.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn
    Wonder where are the "People's Action", the people already have reaction to the current downturn and now so many price increases, where's the action? We have such a large union also no use...ho-hum...

    it's time to move on to greener pastures...

    The Union has other better/more profitable things to do besides taking care of worker's rights.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Sorry, no sympathy from me.....
    Its unlikely that you'll hear the families/singles at the lowest income level gripe about the fare hike here(perhaps at the kopitiam). I know of them not even having a computer let alone internet connection. Broadband would have been a luxury to them. The pain for them is unavoidable as they are unable to refuse public transport.

    This is not a specifc area of taxation which only effects the rich, like income tax. Or a wide spread Goods and Service Tax which all is effected. Yes, you might say that its a fare hike, not tax. But we have no say in it and with full monopoly of the public transport in Singapore here, it certainly feels like one. The fare hike affects the mid to lowest rung of the society only. The more well-off drives their own vehicles.

    The ones that are lest able to withstand a fare increase have to face them alone for their little ones.

    Are there concessions for younger student taking private buses to and from school? Perhaps they should teach their kids to take public transport earlier.......
    Last edited by Hommie; 2nd June 2005 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #30

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    I think years ago, our local standard of living was predicted to match those of current Japan in the year 2015 (give and take let's say by 2020). From what I understand in Japan, to take a taxi ride from the Narita airport (Toyko) to the city area (about 40 km) will cost somewhere S$250.00. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's something that not every Jap can also afford even with their higher salaries compared to here. And then there are other expensive stuff there as well.

    Are we heading in that inevitable direction?

  11. #31
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder
    I think years ago, our local standard of living was predicted to match those of current Japan in the year 2015 (give and take let's say by 2020). From what I understand in Japan, to take a taxi ride from the Narita airport (Toyko) to the city area (about 40 km) will cost somewhere S$250.00. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's something that not every Jap can also afford even with their higher salaries compared to here. And then there are other expensive stuff there as well.

    Are we heading in that inevitable direction?
    Depends on which area. Part of the reason why everything is so expensive in Japan is because of the protectionist market. We don't, but in those area where we have not open up will likely be that direction.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    They now encourage employer to give increasement to the employees, but use common sense lo, do you think most employer will give increasement???
    Really feel like kena broken one leg by them then they throw a wheel-chair to you!

    nope, you ask you kenna marked! i dun think private sector all so obiedent to follow garment.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Its unlikely that you'll hear the families/singles at the lowest income level gripe about the fare hike here(perhaps at the kopitiam). I know of them not even having a computer let alone internet connection. Broadband would have been a luxury to them. The pain for them is unavoidable as they are unable to refuse public transport.

    This is not a specifc area of taxation which only effects the rich, like income tax. Or a wide spread Goods and Service Tax which all is effected. Yes, you might say that its a fare hike, not tax. But we have no say in it and with full monopoly of the public transport in Singapore here, it certainly feels like one. The fare hike affects the mid to lowest rung of the society only. The more well-off drives their own vehicles.

    The ones that are lest able to withstand a fare increase have to face them alone for their little ones.

    Are there concessions for younger student taking private buses to and from school? Perhaps they should teach their kids to take public transport earlier.......

    Hommie,
    you and I and the others here discussing nice little luxuries on our broadband computers, like which lens to buy, which destination to got to next, it is OUR responsibility to make sure that those in need (and their little ones) get the help they deserve. Fare control is a ineffective way of helping these people. What next, if HDB raises it rent, utilities charges go up, GST is raised? Complain again? Where is the end? The fact is that these charges are affordable to the majority. Who likes a fare hike? Not me! But these are companies with a bottom line and they need to stay solvent. Their employees also deserve to have salary raises like so many here are clamouring for. Yes, this kind of economic model hurts the poor, but allows the economy as a whole to function more efficiently and grow wealth (or at least not lose it so fast!). It is then imperative (not an option) for the well-off to give back to society. Directed, focused aid is the way. Bashing the companies is just plain misguided.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    I do agree that the increment is not going to make much of diff to most commuters. The increment should be less than $2 /mth for most people.
    However what i am piss off is that despite the increment, the standard of bus service has not improve. Bus intervals are irregular, sometimes over 15 minutes if you miss the previous bus. At peak hours buses and trains are over pack and yet you don't the buses comes at a shorter interval.

    Like the rate and magnitude of increase in fares, the quality of service has improved at a similar rate. Everyone also forgets that profit making routes or stops have to compensate for loss making routes or stops. And if you wait for a bus with 15 minuters intervals and complain, that only makes you a very impatient person. Frequency of buses arriving at any stop depends largely on the traffic conditions of the road that the bus takes before it reaches that stop, it is not much different if you take a taxi or drive your own car. You complain about this, it means you have not given it much thought.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    Hommie,
    you and I and the others here discussing nice little luxuries on our broadband computers, like which lens to buy, which destination to got to next, it is OUR responsibility to make sure that those in need (and their little ones) get the help they deserve. Fare control is a ineffective way of helping these people. What next, if HDB raises it rent, utilities charges go up, GST is raised? Complain again? Where is the end? The fact is that these charges are affordable to the majority. Who likes a fare hike? Not me! But these are companies with a bottom line and they need to stay solvent. Their employees also deserve to have salary raises like so many here are clamouring for. Yes, this kind of economic model hurts the poor, but allows the economy as a whole to function more efficiently and grow wealth (or at least not lose it so fast!). It is then imperative (not an option) for the well-off to give back to society. Directed, focused aid is the way. Bashing the companies is just plain misguided.
    dkw,
    It is precisely you and I have the chance to live a more comfortable life that we speak up for those who are unable to. If they have a chance to speak up, they would. What else can we do? Yeah, we could write to the Strait Times Forum. I am pretty sure there are already many that doing it now and can write far better than me. Could we go on street protest? Or organize strike? Refuse to use Public Transport?

    What else could the average Singaporean do, except gripe in the internet forum and complaint at the kopitiam? You are asking when the complaining will end? It will end the moment when fare hike stopped, like that will ever happen. This is how the society work, haha! This is how the average Joe here let off steam.

    Perhaps the better economic model is opening up the transport market for the private operator to compete against SBS and SMRT if the public transport are incapable of managing the company efficiently despite being a monopoly. PTC can then setup guidelines and rules to monitor the transport companies' service for the public. Competition would push the public transport companies for better service, or risk to left behind. Wouldn't that be a better option than to give a one off $50 as concession for those poor families?
    Last edited by Hommie; 2nd June 2005 at 09:10 PM.

  16. #36
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    Guys, I tell you why I so pissed of about the SMRT!!!

    First, SMRT says that they offer world-class service to the general public and also safety is first class too.
    But....
    it happened in SMRT stations many many liao...accidents like people falling into the tracks, commit suicide and etc...but worse of all, the camera installed in the station cannot capture at all....the camera not working or only for 'show' only? Can this consider world-class service??? And now they still have the cheek to raise the fare.
    Damn thick-skin sia!!!

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    Perhaps the better economic model is opening up the transport market for the private operator to compete against SBS and SMRT if the public transport are incapable of managing the company efficiently despite being a monopoly. PTC can then setup guidelines and rules to monitor the transport companies' service for the public. Competition would push the public transport companies for better service, or risk to left behind. Wouldn't that be a better option than to give a one off $50 as concession for those poor families?
    I am not sure if this is feasible. Stiff competition may instead lead to losses, just like MediaWorks and MediaCorp despite public funding from the Media Development Authority. Also, the kind of public transportation system in question here is about fixed routes, not like taxi operators whose taxis can do their business anywhere in the island. This means a higher degree of risk, that if one operator suddenly stops operating, there may not be substitutes that are readily available to fill in the routes of the failed operator. Neither do I think public transport users will choose to take a bus based on the operator, unless one of the operators is really providing very bad service. Furthermore, you have to take into account the financial aspects of competition, it does not look like it is profitable enough to slice up the pie. This is of course a simplistic analysis that is as flawed as any other assumptions posted up here, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view, that competition may not necessarily be good. For a start, what would be more feasible and less drastic is that the public transportation operators be challenged to come up with better models of operations that can compete, to improve upon the efficiency and service standards year after year, yet be able to maintain the pricing for it's services. For instance, set benchmarks to be reached e.g. cleanliness, comfort etc and assessed on additional factors like sustainability etc. Or simply appoint a CEO, board of directors or management team who can make the difference, instead of putting in ex civil servants. Easier said than done, but it is just an alternative to competition.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Hommie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao
    I am not sure if this is feasible. Stiff competition may instead lead to losses, just like MediaWorks and MediaCorp despite public funding from the Media Development Authority. Also, the kind of public transportation system in question here is about fixed routes, not like taxi operators whose taxis can do their business anywhere in the island. This means a higher degree of risk, that if one operator suddenly stops operating, there may not be substitutes that are readily available to fill in the routes of the failed operator. Neither do I think public transport users will choose to take a bus based on the operator, unless one of the operators is really providing very bad service. Furthermore, you have to take into account the financial aspects of competition, it does not look like it is profitable enough to slice up the pie. This is of course a simplistic analysis that is as flawed as any other assumptions posted up here, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view, that competition may not necessarily be good. For a start, what would be more feasible and less drastic is that the public transportation operators be challenged to come up with better models of operations that can compete, to improve upon the efficiency and service standards year after year, yet be able to maintain the pricing for it's services. For instance, set benchmarks to be reached e.g. cleanliness, comfort etc and assessed on additional factors like sustainability etc. Or simply appoint a CEO, board of directors or management team who can make the difference, instead of putting in ex civil servants. Easier said than done, but it is just an alternative to competition.
    One of the reason why the private bus operators are increasing their fares is because the limited business in small Singapore "outside of the public transport route". Imagine, just how much is the market for ferrying students from schools and free ferry service to and from shopping malls etc. Beside what make you think that the bus routes are not profitable to open up competition? I have never heard of SBS and Transit operating on loss before. In fact the fare hike would "increase the revenue by $13 million to $14 million each". That is more than the sum of the entire private bus operator's revenue in Singapore(My estimate).

    I don't really think that the comparism between the merger two media giant company TV unit is fair. Its the death of good content and overpricing its advertising space. Besides it take years to grow a good TV station to find it position. Did you see the cable TV's market shrunk?

    "Since 2000, when the media market was liberalised, SPH TV arm has lost over $40 million a year, while its freesheet Streats chalked up over $5 million losses each year. MediaCorp TV also chalked up losses: $10 million this year, and $20 million last year. Its freesheet Today, lost $9.6 million in the 2004 financial year.

    But the fact is, overall, SPH and MediaCorp are still very much profitable. And as SPH's latest financial statements show, profits after taxation rose 23.4 per cent from nearly $307.2 million in 2002 to about $379.1 million last year. MediaCorp is healthily in the black as well.

    More time could have been given for competition to play itself out, especially when the media competition code was only introduced last year."


    Your suggestion for improving the services is good but all this could be done(I dunno, perhaps already done) with or without competition and/or years of complaints from the commuters. Can we trust the transport company to self monitor themselves? Wouldn't it be in conflict of interest? All this should be on PTC's list of work to do in the first day it was setup. Seems that PTC's main work is to gather and decides to approve or refuse operator's application for fare hike every couple of year.....

    On your last suggestion of putting a REAL result based CEO or good management team instead of a ex-civil servant to head it is, hahaha the main reason that the garment refuse to open the public transport to private operator! You know, I know can already, hahaha!

    Never happen!
    Last edited by Hommie; 3rd June 2005 at 12:58 AM.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hommie
    On your last suggestion of putting a REAL result based CEO or good management team instead of a ex-civil servant to head it is, hahaha the main reason that the garment refuse to open the public transport to private operator! You know, I know can already, hahaha!

    Never happen!


    But then again, $tranger thing$ have happenned, like DB$ for instance. Maybe all it take$ i$ MONEY to rea$on for everything.

  20. #40
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    hi XXX Boy

    errrr, your avatar!!!
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

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