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Thread: Yingluck running out of luck?

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Yingluck running out of luck?

    Suthep seems to be gaining the upper hand...

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/poli...litary-leaders

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    It seems she simply does not pay enough to her own crowd and supporters.
    EOS

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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    reminds me of a WWII tyrant


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    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    People demand democracy for their government... but when democracy elected someone they don't like... lets call in the Army and have a Coup...

    You can't have it both way... democracy when its your candidate... no need democracy if its someone you don't like...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Moderator keithwee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    People demand democracy for their government... but when democracy elected someone they don't like... lets call in the Army and have a Coup... You can't have it both way... democracy when its your candidate... no need democracy if its someone you don't like...
    Welcome to Thailand where protest is the solution when the party u support isn't elected.

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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by keithwee View Post
    Welcome to Thailand where protest is the solution when the party u support isn't elected.
    It is a dysfunctional democracy
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  7. #7

    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    It is a dysfunctional democracy
    Democracy can't work well if the people is not properly educated to make the right decision

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    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Democracy can't work well if the people is not properly educated to make the right decision

    And I supposed if what you said is to be taken at face value... only 'Educated' people will get to vote... the rest won't be allowed to, since they are 'Not Educated' properly and can't make the 'right' choice ??

    So WHO get to decide who is Educated enough to be allow to vote ??
    Last edited by diver-hloc; 2nd December 2013 at 08:39 PM.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Democracy can't work well if the people is not properly educated to make the right decision
    Where is the line between educating people and brainwashing people..? What is right for some might not be so right for others .. and what is best for another group.
    Beside this, a baseline in democracy is to accept defeat in a fair election. Every democracy needs an opposition to control the government.
    EOS

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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    She is not a dictator.

    When Abhisit was PM (without winning any general election), the police and army had snipers choosing victims and killing them with high powered rifles - generally incredibly violent toward protesters. He still has murder charges pending against him.

    The two main Thai political commentators from Chulalongkorn University are Panitan Wattanayagorn and Thitinan Pongsudhirak. They are in the know. Generally, they know what they are talking about. Even if you may not agree with their views from time to time.

    Andrew Walker is an Australian National University professor and Thailand expert. He opined that the protesters and the protest leaders want to create chaos. Hoping to trigger intervention by the military to unseat the government.

    I agree with his view.

    Don't be misled by what you see on TV news which keep repeating protest video.
    The action is limited to a few small spots within Central Bangkok.
    And Central Bangkok is a small part of Greater Bangkok, which in turn is a small part of Thailand.

    It is not as though 80% of Thailand is protesting. The protesters are a very small band.

    Thailand's Democrat party has never been able to win any election for more than 20 years.
    I guess that says something about what the whole of Thai population thinks about them.

    The protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban incited the mob to occupy government ministries.

    Suthep Thaugsuban wants to replace the elected government with his own People's Council. In other words mob rule in which he is the dictator.

    What is unusual is that Abhisit and Korn Chatikavanij appealed to US and UK embassies against Thailand's own elected government.

    These are FOREIGN powers. It is shocking. Completely unacceptable. You do not ask outside parties to interfere in your own family matters.

    The mob asked the Thai Military to take sides and they were rejected.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 2nd December 2013 at 09:08 PM.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    You do not ask outside parties to interfere in your own family matters.
    Well, you are spot on here
    EOS

  12. #12

    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    And I supposed if what you said is to be taken at face value... only 'Educated' people will get to vote... the rest won't be allowed to, since they are 'Not Educated' properly and can't make the 'right' choice ??

    So WHO get to decide who is Educated enough to be allow to vote ??
    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Where is the line between educating people and brainwashing people..? What is right for some might not be so right for others .. and what is best for another group.
    Beside this, a baseline in democracy is to accept defeat in a fair election. Every democracy needs an opposition to control the government.
    Its a tricky matter I admit. But lets think about it, why is there a regulation that state only people past a certain age is allowed to vote ?
    In this line of thinking, the lawmaker assume that age can be an indicator of maturity in thinking. Well.. unfortunately its not a 100% correlation.
    I mean, you don't let your 3 yo kid making decisions in your household, don't you? Its a different matter if your kid is 17/18, but its not guaranteed either.
    Its a lengthy subject to discuss.. but I have to play dota first after a long day at work

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Its a tricky matter I admit. But lets think about it, why is there a regulation that state only people past a certain age is allowed to vote ? In this line of thinking, the lawmaker assume that age can be an indicator of maturity in thinking. Well.. unfortunately its not a 100% correlation. I mean, you don't let your 3 yo kid making decisions in your household, don't you? Its a different matter if your kid is 17/18, but its not guaranteed either. Its a lengthy subject to discuss.. but I have to play dota first after a long day at work
    It is a slippery slope: suppose you say those "educated" gets one vote and others don't. Then what about those with higher education still? They get two votes? Or those who produce more boys for NS? Or those paying more taxes? Or... You get the picture... Where do you draw the line? Worse, how do you draw the line? And is one line enough?

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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    It is a slippery slope: suppose you say those "educated" gets one vote and others don't. Then what about those with higher education still? They get two votes? Or those who produce more boys for NS? Or those paying more taxes? Or... You get the picture... Where do you draw the line? Worse, how do you draw the line? And is one line enough?
    IIRC, at one time, Mr. LKY did mull over this. Never implemented.

    From pressrun.net
    In an interview with Fareed Zakaria for Foreign Affairs magazine in 1994, he said:

    I'm not intellectually convinced that one-man, one-vote is the best. We practise it because that's what the British bequeathed us and we haven't really found a need to challenge that.
    Our Pledge mentioned equality. The five stars of Singapore's flag stand for the nation's ideals of democracy, peace, progress, justice and equality.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 2nd December 2013 at 11:55 PM.

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    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Its a tricky matter I admit. But lets think about it, why is there a regulation that state only people past a certain age is allowed to vote ?
    In this line of thinking, the lawmaker assume that age can be an indicator of maturity in thinking. Well.. unfortunately its not a 100% correlation.
    I mean, you don't let your 3 yo kid making decisions in your household, don't you? Its a different matter if your kid is 17/18, but its not guaranteed either.
    That goes in the wrong direction. What is more pronounced in Thailand but still exists in Singapore as well is the gap in education level between different age groups. Those at the age of LKY and his comrades will definitely have a different opinion about a government than those turning 40 or younger. Education has changed and it has produced different mindsets. Another topic which does not apply to SG at all, but all the more to Thailand: the education gap between cities and rural areas. Farmers have a limited understanding about politics. Thaksin knew this and he simplified the thinking process with a bit of monetary stimulation. Opinions can change for the right amount of money. Back to my initial post
    EOS

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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Actually money politics may be worse in the urban and city areas, so it may not be true that Thai farmers are simplistic and easily misled or induced by some money.

    The fight in Thailand now is about two groups.

    The haves who are in the minority, are the ruling elite/moneyed classes. They have the power but cannot get any political legitimacy.

    The havenots who want fair treatment and an opportunity to make life better for their next generation.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    It is a slippery slope: suppose you say those "educated" gets one vote and others don't. Then what about those with higher education still? They get two votes? Or those who produce more boys for NS? Or those paying more taxes? Or... You get the picture... Where do you draw the line? Worse, how do you draw the line? And is one line enough?
    Please understand that I wasn't suggesting to change the voting system in the first place. I'm simply stating that democracy works best for those who are matured in thinking.
    Simply put.. if you allow idiots to vote.. then be ready to accept the consequence. If you don't want to have it, then either change the voting system, or educate the people.
    For me its like a mathematical equation, left and right hand side. Democracy is like x + y = z. If the input, either x and/or y is rubbish, you will get rubbish result.
    If you start with a predetermined result that you want to achieve, then you have to work the x and y, or change the formula altogether.
    Of course things are not that simple in reality, like octarine said, there are other issues like accommodating different groups needs.

  18. #18
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yingluck running out of luck?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    It is a slippery slope: suppose you say those "educated" gets one vote and others don't. Then what about those with higher education still? They get two votes? Or those who produce more boys for NS? Or those paying more taxes? Or... You get the picture... Where do you draw the line? Worse, how do you draw the line? And is one line enough?

    Agree... too many rules and too many pre-condition will be a headache and change democracy into a somewhat Elitism system...


    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Please understand that I wasn't suggesting to change the voting system in the first place. I'm simply stating that democracy works best for those who are matured in thinking.
    Simply put.. if you allow idiots to vote.. then be ready to accept the consequence. If you don't want to have it, then either change the voting system, or educate the people.
    For me its like a mathematical equation, left and right hand side. Democracy is like x + y = z. If the input, either x and/or y is rubbish, you will get rubbish result.
    If you start with a predetermined result that you want to achieve, then you have to work the x and y, or change the formula altogether.
    Of course things are not that simple in reality, like octarine said, there are other issues like accommodating different groups needs.

    I agree that there is no perfect system in the world... and the best system we have so far is Democracy. Like Winston Churchill has been qouted to said -

    "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried"
    Democracy is far from perfect... but at least its the fairest system out there... and being fair, meant every "eligible" voter gets to vote... be they rich or poor... educated or not... whatever they're social status... and last but not least, whoever they support (Govt or Opps).

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Agree... too many rules and too many pre-condition will be a headache and change democracy into a somewhat Elitism system...
    Worse: the more rules there are, the more complex the system is, the more loopholes there will be for the smart ones to exploit to their advantage.

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    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    We will never understand their politic same as they also cannot understand ours. If their army is controlling the government, maybe let them rule the country. Why election? Very strange and interesting country.

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