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Thread: Portrait photographers:: Who's a model and who is not?

  1. #41
    esstelle
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    In the latter scenario (one that involves payment), the party who accepts payment receives primary benefit in the form of pecuniary/monetary reward. The pictures are merely and solely collateral to the pecuniary benefit

  2. #42
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    esstelle, I'm so impressed by your words. U will make a fine model I'm sure.

    All the best in your career.

  3. #43

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    estelle has raised a very valid point. a model or a model-in-training is one who should have the basic physical requirements of a model, (height/skin/pleasant looks) and have the professionalism to contact photographers, iron out details like how the shoot should be conducted, theme, clothes, makeup, location etc and make sure the shoot (TFP i mean) is beneficial to both.

    Of course, we cannot expect it to be perfectly balanced that each party contributes the same or bears the same load coz in any projects, there's always some overlapping.

    For a paid job, of course, the model does not make any demands. Or alternatively, if a model pays a fotog, she makes the decisions.

    However, the trend here in CS is where girls, mary jane and barbara, comes for free photoshoot on the basis of TFP, boss the photographers around, get their prints and proclaim henceforth that they are a model.

    This is making it bad for professional photographers and models as well as those who are in-training for professional level.

    Then again, they always say, when there's a demand, there'll be a supply.
    www.miatan.com
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petf69
    esstelle, I'm so impressed by your words. U will make a fine model I'm sure.

    All the best in your career.
    Hmmm....all of a sudden there is an influx of models in CS looking not for TFP only but also registering on CS to have a say.

    With such short history in Clubsnap and giving a long speech......I am impress as well.

  5. #45
    esstelle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades
    Hmmm....all of a sudden there is an influx of models in CS looking not for TFP only but also registering on CS to have a say.

    With such short history in Clubsnap and giving a long speech......I am impress as well.
    I have not looked for TFP here nor have I ever advertised for TFP in any other place

    If the entitlement to speak is based relatively on seniority, then pardon my ignorance of the norm of this forum.
    Last edited by esstelle; 31st May 2005 at 10:37 PM.

  6. #46

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    If a model is just someone you can photograph, then i feel that's a little "under".

    Just like not everyone with a camera in hand is a photographer.

    I would prefer, especially in portraits, the term SUBJECT.



    Quote Originally Posted by jodie_tan
    Anyone can be a model...inc myself...?Haha unless someone needs a bogus Veterinian for a shoot, I CAN BE
    Haha...its more or less the way a photographer shoots, his pictorial compostion and vsual concept. Little underexposed can be viewed as 'artistic' like those MNG ads. Models do not have to be skinny...esp fashion ones. If ur tall and skinny and a runway model modelling for some fashion wear, then forget about buying that store's clothes. Its unfair and misleading to the population that clothes 'XXX' is only ment for model figure. That's dumb coz that shop won't earn. I believe some models are aneroxic and bulimic...why should I shoot someone whom's about to faint before my camera and later call for an ambulance to send her to GH? I'd rather shoot a plump healthy model rather than those frail girls!
    Hence, a healthy, radiant toned model is suitable for my shoots!
    www.miatan.com
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  7. #47

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    To some extent, i do agree with Mia strongly on the use of the word "subject" instead of "model". Perhaps the words "model" and "photographer" has taken more of a honorific then professional usage with the digital revolution, as entry level DSLRs are made more affordable to most. Most boundaries have thus be broken down, and with it, the terms used, or rather now, abused.

    To me, like any other profession, the word "model" should come with a professional tag. I guess if one is not committed to the line and behaves according to the pre-defined standards of that particular job(modelling in this instance), then perhaps one should not taint the use of the word. I do know of some companies that term their "models" as "talents" instead. Would that not be a better word to use? I cant say for sure.

    I have friends who insist on terming themselves as "amateur photographers" instead of "photographers", simply because they do not want to partake in the professional aspects of photography, and yet, they behavior is as professional as it gets in the "amateur" scene. So does this make CS a community of "photographers", or rather a community of hobbists, amateurs, and professional photographers? I, for one cant see the line drawn anywhere. Perhaps its because was never schooled in this topic, or perhaps we are still not "matured" enough in photography as a community to define these lines. Therefore leading to the loose usage of these terms.

    I'm not here to flame anyone. This is an internet forum, and forums were places created for people to share their views on certain topics. No one can say who is right or wrong in this instance, but some who are committed to the line of modelling would definately feel a pinch if anyone who poses in front of a camera could be termed a "model" too. If my brother falls sick and i give him two panadols, suppose he recovers, does that then make me a "doctor". I guess not.

    On the other hand, to these "models", due to their lack of understanding or whatsoever, it may be that to have a "photographer" holding a professional camera doing portraiture would make her a "model". If i use the panadol analogy on here again, it just doesnt fit in anyway i say it.

    My take is, the revolution is here, i suppose we are in an age whereby many boundaries have been broken down, and many terms that were once used openly may need to either be reinforced or redefined. Who knows, this thread here may mark the forecoming of such a change in the way we view "models" and "photographers"

    Dun quote me, i'm just a young boy voicing my very amateurish views on this very professional topic.

    Cheers
    Witness
    Last edited by Witness; 31st May 2005 at 11:45 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness
    To some extent, i do agree with Mia strongly on the use of the word "subject" instead of "model". Perhaps the words "model" and "photographer" has taken more of a honorific then professional usage with the digital revolution, as entry level DSLRs are made more affordable to most. Most boundaries have thus be broken down, and with it, the terms used, or rather now, abused.

    To me, like any other profession, the word "model" should come with a professional tag. I guess if one is not committed to the line and behaves according to the pre-defined standards of that particular job(modelling in this instance), then perhaps one should not taint the use of the word. I do know of some companies that term their "models" as "talents" instead. Would that not be a better word to use? I cant tell for sure.

    I'm not here to flame anyone. This is an internet forum, and forums were places created for people to share their views on certain topics. No one can say who is right or wrong in this instance, but some who are committed to the line of modelling would definately feel a pinch if anyone who poses in front of a camera could be termed a "model" too. If my brother falls sick and i give him two panadols, suppose he recovers, does that then make me a "doctor". I guess not.

    On the other hand, to these "models", due to their lack of understanding or whatsoever, it may be that to have a "photographer" holding a professional camera doing portraiture would make her a "model". If i use the panadol analogy on here again, it just doesnt fit in anyway i say it.

    My take is, the revolution is here, i suppose we are in an age whereby many boundaries have been broken down, and many terms that were once used openly may need to either be reinforced or redefined. Who knows, this thread here may mark the forecoming of such a change in the way we view "models" and "photographers"

    Dun quote me, i'm just a young boy voicing my very amateurish views on this very professional topic.

    Cheers
    Witness
    Bro, well said

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness
    ...
    I'm not here to flame anyone. This is an internet forum, and forums were places created for people to share their views on certain topics. No one can say who is right or wrong in this instance, but some who are committed to the line of modelling would definately feel a pinch if anyone who poses in front of a camera could be termed a "model" too. If my brother falls sick and i give him two panadols, suppose he recovers, does that then make me a "doctor". I guess not.

    On the other hand, to these "models", due to their lack of understanding or whatsoever, it may be that to have a "photographer" holding a professional camera doing portraiture would make her a "model". If i use the panadol analogy on here again, it just doesnt fit in anyway i say it.

    My take is, the revolution is here, i suppose we are in an age whereby many boundaries have been broken down, and many terms that were once used openly may need to either be reinforced or redefined. Who knows, this thread here may mark the forecoming of such a change in the way we view "models" and "photographers"

    Dun quote me, i'm just a young boy voicing my very amateurish views on this very professional topic.
    i like ur analogy~


    on a side note... u young meh?
    so many pp i heard of all call u unker le... how how?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness
    To some extent, i do agree with Mia strongly on the use of the word "subject" instead of "model". Perhaps the words "model" and "photographer" has taken more of a honorific then professional usage with the digital revolution, as entry level DSLRs are made more affordable to most. Most boundaries have thus be broken down, and with it, the terms used, or rather now, abused.

    To me, like any other profession, the word "model" should come with a professional tag. I guess if one is not committed to the line and behaves according to the pre-defined standards of that particular job(modelling in this instance), then perhaps one should not taint the use of the word. I do know of some companies that term their "models" as "talents" instead. Would that not be a better word to use? I cant say for sure.

    I have friends who insist on terming themselves as "amateur photographers" instead of "photographers", simply because they do not want to partake in the professional aspects of photography, and yet, they behavior is as professional as it gets in the "amateur" scene. So does this make CS a community of "photographers", or rather a community of hobbists, amateurs, and professional photographers? I, for one cant see the line drawn anywhere. Perhaps its because was never schooled in this topic, or perhaps we are still not "matured" enough in photography as a community to define these lines. Therefore leading to the loose usage of these terms.

    I'm not here to flame anyone. This is an internet forum, and forums were places created for people to share their views on certain topics. No one can say who is right or wrong in this instance, but some who are committed to the line of modelling would definately feel a pinch if anyone who poses in front of a camera could be termed a "model" too. If my brother falls sick and i give him two panadols, suppose he recovers, does that then make me a "doctor". I guess not.

    On the other hand, to these "models", due to their lack of understanding or whatsoever, it may be that to have a "photographer" holding a professional camera doing portraiture would make her a "model". If i use the panadol analogy on here again, it just doesnt fit in anyway i say it.

    My take is, the revolution is here, i suppose we are in an age whereby many boundaries have been broken down, and many terms that were once used openly may need to either be reinforced or redefined. Who knows, this thread here may mark the forecoming of such a change in the way we view "models" and "photographers"

    Dun quote me, i'm just a young boy voicing my very amateurish views on this very professional topic.

    Cheers
    Witness
    Wise words from the young man. I totally agree with what you've said. There are many pretty faces lately offering TFP/TFCDs but I wouldn't consider them as "models". Its amazing though the numbers of people jumping onto the bandwagon of that last infamous TFCD offer, with some even offering to pay for the chance to shoot that lass, though she doesn't even have a portfolio yet!

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness
    Perhaps the words "model" and "photographer" has taken more of a honorific then professional usage with the digital revolution, as entry level DSLRs are made more affordable to most. Most boundaries have thus be broken down, and with it, the terms used, or rather now, abused.

    My take is, the revolution is here, i suppose we are in an age whereby many boundaries have been broken down, and many terms that were once used openly may need to either be reinforced or redefined. Who knows, this thread here may mark the forecoming of such a change in the way we view "models" and "photographers"
    While I agree with the general thrust of your commens, I am not sure if I can agree with the quoted statements.

    I cannot see how the definition of a model has anything to do with the digital revolution. All "digital reevolution" did was to change the working paradigm and inceases the number of people holding the cameras.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Arcanic~
    i like ur analogy~


    on a side note... u young meh?
    so many pp i heard of all call u unker le... how how?
    heh u referrin to me call him unker rite?
    heeee

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by esstelle
    We've been hearing a lot from the photographers. Please allow a person from the other side of the fence to share her insight/experience.
    .
    .
    .
    .xperienced photographer could have overlooked, be misinformed of or ignorant about, and vice versa.

  14. #54
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    wow... 3 pages of very very different ideas here. anyone asked Zeckson yet?
    Budget wedding photographer :)

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkertR
    wow... 3 pages of very very different ideas here. anyone asked Zeckson yet?
    I think the man is still busy working on his Contance's photos.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    I think the man is still busy working on his Contance's photos.
    must forward him this thread then... his input would b priceless
    Budget wedding photographer :)

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkertR
    must forward him this thread then... his input would b priceless
    you'll get an educational post then. all of 3000 characters long at least.

  18. #58
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    hahaha! there's no character limit is there?
    Budget wedding photographer :)

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkertR
    hahaha! there's no character limit is there?
    No character limit whenever Constance is being mentioned by our fren.

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