View Poll Results: I will choose

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  • The silver one, It is beautiful.

    110 46.22%
  • The black one. Black is cool.

    57 23.95%
  • It is ugly, but I will get it.

    7 2.94%
  • I will skip this Df.

    64 26.89%
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Thread: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

  1. #201

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by tofu master View Post
    off-topic:
    I wish Nikon Df is successful so that they will come with the DX version of the model
    As it is, I don't think I 'can afford' the Df, just like I can't 'afford' D800 or D600. I'm satisfied with my D7000, if there is a Df with aps-c sensor I'm sure to get it.
    Does anyone also wish for a DX sensor Df?
    Absolutely . I think a lite DX version (retro styling optional) would be fantastic. But we would need some small DX primes to really maximise its potential. We only have the 35mm/1.8G DX currently (excluding the DX macros). How bout a small 23mm/1.8G DX for the kit lens? Just have a look at the Fuji X-Pro range to see what DX lenses are missing in the Nikon line up.

  2. #202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post

    Absolutely . I think a lite DX version (retro styling optional) would be fantastic. But we would need some small DX primes to really maximise its potential. We only have the 35mm/1.8G DX currently (excluding the DX macros). How bout a small 23mm/1.8G DX for the kit lens? Just have a look at the Fuji X-Pro range to see what DX lenses are missing in the Nikon line up.
    I think they rather add such a model to their CX line. Once Sony introduces cheaper full-frame models like an A5 next year I doubt there will be any room for relatively expensive APS-C systems. Maybe Ricoh is doing it.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Wish they revive the development of digital backs for SLR instead, particularly the F3/hp, FM2. etc...
    What I really missed most, is my first SLR. An Olympus OM2 with the Zuiko 35mm f/1.4, back in 1982!

  4. #204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacroMarlin View Post
    Wish they revive the development of digital backs for SLR instead, particularly the F3/hp, FM2. etc...
    Isn't that history? I don't think they will go back in time.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansel View Post
    Yes I have!

    I (still) have the F2 photomic, F2 (plane prism, no meter), Nikkormat FTn, FM2, F601m, etc.

    But I honestly doubt if ANY of those old Nikkor lenses (AI, pre-AI) will stand up to the scrutiny of a modern digital sensor. I kind of expected what you said earlier to be true, ie, that the old nostalgic folks like us will eventually move up to more modern glasses after we have seen how bad those old lenses really are after getting the Df and that will generate more business for Nikon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Light Machinery View Post
    Well actually not. If one really need to go retro, some of the pre Ai, AI & AIS lenses works pretty well.

    I have used some on the D4, they hold up pretty well
    I have used quite a few Ai or Ai converted lenses on my D800 and they stand up to scrutiny very well, just as LM said. I know of at least one person who swears by the old 5cm f/2 Nikkor-S (not H) 9 blade version, I have the 7-blade version but not converted to Ai, so can't test on FX yet. He also swears by the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2.

    So far I have tested E75-150, Ai80-200/4, AiS80-200/4, K24/2.8, Ai50/2 on the D800 and I am pleased with the results.

    I have used the 5cm f/2 Nikkor-S, 10.5cm f/2.5 Nikkor-P, 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor-S and 105mm f/2.5 Nikkor-P.C. only on DX. So have to wait and see how they perform on Df.

    I believe the old glasses are all good.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post
    I think they rather add such a model to their CX line. Once Sony introduces cheaper full-frame models like an A5 next year I doubt there will be any room for relatively expensive APS-C systems. Maybe Ricoh is doing it.
    Sadly I think you're right. Though APS-C sensors will always be an order of magnitude cheaper to produce and I just don't think Nikon nor Canon are really doing their APS-C customers justice (lens-wise). And that's their biggest customer base.
    But I don't think it should have to be an expensive APS-C camera though(ie. not exactly following the Df concept which remains to be seen exactly what it is to command the premium pricing that it does). Just make it small and light without too much clutter but without over simplifying the controls either.
    Again, I think Fuji are doing the right things with their X series, especially in the lens department.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    Sadly I think you're right. Though APS-C sensors will always be an order of magnitude cheaper to produce and I just don't think Nikon nor Canon are really doing their APS-C customers justice (lens-wise). And that's their biggest customer base.
    But I don't think it should have to be an expensive APS-C camera though(ie. not exactly following the Df concept which remains to be seen exactly what it is to command the premium pricing that it does). Just make it small and light without too much clutter but without over simplifying the controls either.
    Again, I think Fuji are doing the right things with their X series, especially in the lens department.
    Yup, Fuji is already there and I guess that's about it. I don't see anybody else entering that market anymore. I don't see why all companies need to have a similar portfolio, every camera maker should do something completely different.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by ageha View Post
    Yup, Fuji is already there and I guess that's about it. I don't see anybody else entering that market anymore. I don't see why all companies need to have a similar portfolio, every camera maker should do something completely different.
    Yes, I also agree about pushing the boundaries. Not saying that everyone needs the same portfolio. Just that I think there's a market, possibly a significant one that Nikon's not paying attention to. They already have the customer base for it since these DX lenses will be good for any Nikon APS-C user. I don't want to speak for everybody but I think the 35/1.8G DX is a great lens so its curious why there aren't more small relatively fast DX primes.

  9. #209

    Default

    Even though APS-C is cheaper, camera manufacturers know that the customers are all heading for FF.

    FF cameras are now the new Mid-range APS-C cameras. More and more newbies are jumping into FF.

    It makes sense for camera manufacturers to chase FF cameras as that's what the market wants. It makes no sense to give most of the customers who want FF quality what the minority wants: cheaper cameras even though they're just APS-C.

  10. #210

    Default

    FF bodies maybe cheaper compared to few years back, but killer problem is FF lens are still as expensive as ever.
    "You will not be remembered for the gear you used, but by the photographs you created"

  11. #211

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by user12343 View Post
    FF bodies maybe cheaper compared to few years back, but killer problem is FF lens are still as expensive as ever.
    Agree with you. Nowdays new lenses become more & more expensive. Just see how expensive is the new Zeiss Otus lens and still manual ...

    It's time to go back to the old Nikkor legacy lenses and become pure photography
    NIKON D90 (2008-2010), D700 (2010-2012), D800 (2012-2014), DF (Dec 2013-Sep 2017)

  12. #212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by user12343 View Post
    FF bodies maybe cheaper compared to few years back, but killer problem is FF lens are still as expensive as ever.
    They can just sell them for less again like 1.5 decades ago. All those years with APS-C systems jacked up the FF prices artificially high.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7id View Post
    Agree with you. Nowdays new lenses become more & more expensive. Just see how expensive is the new Zeiss Otus lens and still manual ...

    It's time to go back to the old Nikkor legacy lenses and become pure photography
    becos lens-making is still largely a labor-intensive art which cannot be replaced with automated process lines.
    "You will not be remembered for the gear you used, but by the photographs you created"

  14. #214

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    Even though APS-C is cheaper, camera manufacturers know that the customers are all heading for FF.

    FF cameras are now the new Mid-range APS-C cameras. More and more newbies are jumping into FF.

    It makes sense for camera manufacturers to chase FF cameras as that's what the market wants. It makes no sense to give most of the customers who want FF quality what the minority wants: cheaper cameras even though they're just APS-C.
    Haha.. not sure I can agree with that but yea, we're all entitled to our opinions.
    Maybe I'm alone but I doubt FF is what everyone wants or is heading, even if prices fall to current consumer levels (which would mean cheaper APS-C still). Especially when lenses (price and bulk) and system weight come into the equation.
    Although APS-C started as a cost stop-gap in the digital era, its grown into a viable and the biggest digital format. I think investments in APS-C (DX) will remain vital to Nikon's on-going economic health.

    Just relating back to the Df concept. At least before this camera, the line up was very much bigger/bulkier = higher end. For those that wanted smaller meant putting up with poorer build, menu-hidden controls etc. The Df bucks this trend and I think that's a good thing.

  15. #215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post

    Haha.. not sure I can agree with that but yea, we're all entitled to our opinions.
    Maybe I'm alone but I doubt FF is what everyone wants or is heading, even if prices fall to current consumer levels (which would mean cheaper APS-C still). Especially when lenses (price and bulk) and system weight come into the equation.
    Although APS-C started as a cost stop-gap in the digital era, its grown into a viable and the biggest digital format. I think investments in APS-C (DX) will remain vital to Nikon's on-going economic health.

    Just relating back to the Df concept. At least before this camera, the line up was very much bigger/bulkier = higher end. For those that wanted smaller meant putting up with poorer build, menu-hidden controls etc. The Df bucks this trend and I think that's a good thing.
    Haha true.

    Like i said, APS-C will remain. But looking at the numbers of the 5D3 and D800/D800E growing i suppose it's a clear indicator of the trends.

    Plus mirrorless systems like the OM-D and A7 systems are offering a higher degree of control even with scaled-down bodies.

    If these companies can do it, I'm sure Nikon and Canon can achieve it as well; it just depends on their R&D

  16. #216

    Default

    Nobody wanted to have APS SLRs and I think once 135 DSLRs will be offered as entry level models the same will happen for the same reason. APS-C isn't really a complete system coz it still relies on some full-frame lenses not available as smaller APS-C options anyway.
    Last edited by ageha; 20th November 2013 at 04:39 PM.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    For those who are interested, some Df samples. But jpegs only though.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2374316...7637727725524/

  18. #218
    Senior Member Ansel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive View Post
    I have used quite a few Ai or Ai converted lenses on my D800 and they stand up to scrutiny very well, just as LM said. I know of at least one person who swears by the old 5cm f/2 Nikkor-S (not H) 9 blade version, I have the 7-blade version but not converted to Ai, so can't test on FX yet. He also swears by the Nikkor-O 35mm f/2.

    So far I have tested E75-150, Ai80-200/4, AiS80-200/4, K24/2.8, Ai50/2 on the D800 and I am pleased with the results.

    I have used the 5cm f/2 Nikkor-S, 10.5cm f/2.5 Nikkor-P, 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor-S and 105mm f/2.5 Nikkor-P.C. only on DX. So have to wait and see how they perform on Df.

    I believe the old glasses are all good.
    Oh, interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, that MOST, not ALL, of the older lenses don't perform as well as the new ones, on the D700. Perhaps I'm a pixel peeper, or have not used the right lenses. I'll test them again.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansel View Post
    Oh, interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, that MOST, not ALL, of the older lenses don't perform as well as the new ones, on the D700. Perhaps I'm a pixel peeper, or have not used the right lenses. I'll test them again.
    You're right. Most vintage lenses are totally overrated and show more artefacts than I like. I rather stick to modern glass.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Official Announcement of Nikon Df

    My experience so far with AI/AI-s lenses: 28mm f/2.0, 35mm f/2.0, 50mm f/1.4, 55m f/2.8 Micro, 105mm f/4 Micro, 105mm f/2.5, 105mm f/1.8, 180mm f/2.8

    I am able to test before I buy (it pays when buying from a single vendor) and there are lenses which are way way overrated (some are even deadly expensive but people buy them.. what can you do??). The above lenses I have kept, not because they are super super sharp etc (the nano-coating isn't just a marketing gimmick, it really does have an impact).. but because I like their rendering of the image. If one looks for super sharp, probably (for me at least) only the 105mm f/1.8 will hold its own against the modern glass. But the old glass has a different feel/rendering which I like :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansel View Post
    Oh, interesting. My experience has been quite the opposite, that MOST, not ALL, of the older lenses don't perform as well as the new ones, on the D700. Perhaps I'm a pixel peeper, or have not used the right lenses. I'll test them again.

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