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Thread: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post

    And you need noise control even as a landscape shooter because you don't shoot at base ISO? Only in rare cases do you warrant that, e.g. stationary stars.

    You should take a look at DXOMark to see whether Pentax APS-C DSLRs have better DR than some other FF offerings *cough cough cough*.

    FF has its place, it's for people who need the shallower DOF or high ISO capability for some reason. I took issue with your statement that you need FF for landscape photography. Details... As a hobbyist landscape shooter I guess details are nice for measurbation when you're free and it's raining heavily?

    Whether people know that Pentax exists has little to do with whether Pentax has FF or not, more to do with marketing and visibility. I'd wager those friends know about M4/3 and Fujifilm. No FF again.

    All that marketing will push up the price for Pentax DSLRs though, I'm sure you also know that marketing costs money. There has to be a fine balance between having enough people know about the brand and keeping the prices affordable. I also do not want my next replacement DSLR to go the way of other brands..
    I never said that landscape must need ff. I myself is shooting landscape with k30 and k5iis.I meant some of the landscape shooter move on to ff after they are better.why must u be so offensive? Having 7 years of shooting doesn't mean u can be so arrogant.... Haha kidding.talking about masturbation, long time never do liao.: )

  2. #42
    Senior Member sunnycamera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    it is more a practical reason, as all the lens I have are full frame lens, it is a logic demand for a full frame camera to take every advantage of what I already have,

    a lot of people are fine with their APSC camer and apsc lens, that is good news for pentax, but those users with pentax full frame lens will still dream for a full frame camera,

    one can be happy with what one already have, while others still can ask for more, as they may have different dreams.

    I do shoot film to get full frame, but the reality of shooting film is wait whole roll of film to finish, and keep waiting till collecting several finished rolls, then take a trip to photo lab to develop, then back home spend 1 hour per roll for scanning and color correction.

    although it is fun to do the film way, but after several trips to lab, it is relatively too troublesome to get a film full frame shot than today's digital way.

    of course, we can get APS-C only lens, but with full frame lens, it is always good to have option to use either format to take advantage. whether you want more shallow depth of field effect or more reach, like those canikon users, they can have a full frame and a apsc camera at same time with only one set of full frame lens to use on both.

    if someone already spend on one camera system, it is more logic to ask for more options from that system instead of buying into 2 camera system with 2 set of lens.

    thus, if pentax users already have a apsc camera and a set of full frame lens collection, it is natural demand for the company to fill the full frame option, that is why most people still stay, as buy into canikon full frame camera is not a solution, you need buy cankion lens as well.

    as for the adapter solution on mirrorless, that is more inconvenient than using k/m series lens on pentax camera; also that is why A/FA/F lens is more favorable than K/M lens in general use.
    Last edited by sunnycamera; 22nd October 2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by subatoyo View Post
    The feedback i got is ff having better dynamic range, better noise control and more details.I still love my Pentax deep deep as i know it is equally good if not better.Otherwise i would not have kr to K5iis and still own them,and i am getting K3 as well. my question is if pentax comes out with FF at the price of apsc , will u still stick with basic gears?Maybe....if they want to hire me,y not?...hahaha ...y u think that i may be inferior to their marketing expert?.But for what i got from my photography friends, they change system or avoid Pentax because of its incomplete line up.dun forget Pentax was bought over by Ricoh,and the CEO should be smart enough to know the market trend not because of some sentimental attachment..tiao boh?Many newbies do not know what Pentax cameras are capable of,unless they own one.Many of my friends dun even know Pentax exist.So Ricoh has to have revamp the line up to lure potential buyers,and increase awareness through aggressive marketing.And they are moving in this direction.

    No expert, but I do have a few cameras/formats.

    IMO, its more of a question of what is practically needed (DR, high ISO, etc), depends on which camera you are talking about too.

    Resolution, the pixel density of a 24mp aps-c is higher than a 24mp FF, providing that the lens can resolve as much.
    Sigma Foveon sensors beats the above two hands down at ISO100-200 (total lose if above that )
    Practically, as I've said before, I think we are nearing a saturating point with mp other than for ego-boosting.
    Most guys don't print big and even if they do, don't print often.
    I do print up to A3/A3+ on my own printer, but the cost and work just to make sure the print is good, not to mention the selection process of the photo that makes the cut to A3/A3+ print makes that uncommon.
    For MP, I can see its use in PP 'tricks' to reduce noise, PP+downsampling to look sharper, etc, but other than that, I think we are near a practical limit.

    DR, older 5DII and D700 are behind the newer aps-c.
    5DII is also behind in high iso.
    The new ones circa 2012 are better, but remember that means current aps-c are very near if not better than some FF sensors that just 2yrs ago 'set the bar' for cameras.


    What I do think FF does easier than APS-C is a wider spatial relation to the subject when shot at shallower DOF.
    So the wide expanse of surroundings is OOF and the subject in focus, this relatively emphasizes the subject.
    But not everything warrants this sort of treatment.
    Some ppl don't even care about this. ( I do sometimes, depending on context)

    Landscapes, f8 and be there - so aps-c or FF no diff

    Portraits - Depends, studio shots tend to be stopped down to get everything in focus. (Its a wash imo for this type of portraits)
    Then there are the shallow DOF type portraits for isolation (usual outdoors); in which case, I do feel FF has an advantage here.
    Interestingly, I print most of the deep DOF portraits over those that have impressive shallow DOF (even if the latter looks good on screen, they often don't immediately translate well into prints )

    Macro - f8; f16, etc - no advantage, in fact, I'd give the nod to smaller formats

    Birding - I do think aps-c is easier.


    We have not even touched on size and weight.

    In the end, it boils down to the old saying "A workman chooses the right tools for the job".

    I have many legacy lenses, so I certainly hope they get to be used on FF one day, but oddly, so far my current FF is only used as a family camera for that shallow DOF look.....

    my few cents....
    Last edited by pinholecam; 22nd October 2013 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    FF is super heavy ah...

    My wife uses FF for her work. It's really easy for me to go into FF because she has a lot of lenses that I can poach now and then, but I still prefer to carry my much lighter APS-C system, thank you very much... I know 6D is as light as K5, but the lenses are OMG painfully dense.
    With a GXR I just screw in a tiny Voigtslander or a CZ and I am able to hand-hold and shoot low light condition with minimal camera shake.

  5. #45
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by subatoyo View Post
    I never said that landscape must need ff. I myself is shooting landscape with k30 and k5iis.I meant some of the landscape shooter move on to ff after they are better.why must u be so offensive? Having 7 years of shooting doesn't mean u can be so arrogant.... Haha kidding.talking about masturbation, long time never do liao.: )

    Quote Originally Posted by subatoyo
    Personally I have seen many landscape shooters deserted the brand after they had become better and need ff set up .


    Arrogant?

    Just because I disagree with you and speak my mind means I'm arrogant and offensive? How have I been offensive? Please don't say such things and then pretend that you're kidding. People are not stupid. Take some responsibility for statements that you choose to throw out, because people will hold you responsible for them.

    I suggest you don't ever talk in KPT section then... Everyone there will be arrogant to you.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 22nd October 2013 at 05:34 PM.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post

    I also think so..

    Newcomers often just get APS-C or mirrorless.. Those who want FF, majority will be into the 3 big boys who could afford to go in long ago. If I'm Pentax, I would probably just look around and see only a group of people who are already in Pentax, some of which will not want to go the way of FF.

    But you never know..
    Ricoh has 3 choices:
    -maintaining current product line up and do nothing.
    -maintainung current product line up but revamp the spec and feature,and expand it..
    -Complete overhaul of product line up.
    If the objective is not to make money,then first option .3rd option is too risky,they may lose existing customers and not attracting new ones.So the logical choice is the 2nd option;maintain loyal customers,encourage them to upgrade, better specs and features to lure the new ones.They are obviously heading in this path .

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post



    Arrogant?

    Just because I disagree with you and speak my mind means I'm arrogant and offensive? How have I been offensive? Please don't say such things and then pretend that you're kidding. People are not stupid. Take some responsibility for statements that you choose to throw out, because people will hold you responsible for them.

    I suggest you don't ever talk in KPT section then... Everyone there will be arrogant to you.
    Are u speaking of yourself?

  8. #48
    Senior Member sunnycamera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    those people at pentaxforums with tons of M42/K/M/A/F/FA lens are the people who suffer most from demanding full frame,

    they may have the DA lens, but as long as they still holding those "emotion-and-memory-attached" pentax full frame lens, which they have been with for years, their longing for the ff can not be cured.

    so the 2 pills can save those people from dreaming for pentax ff,
    the bitter pill - selling out their ff lens;
    the sweet pill - pentax make a ff dslr.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycamera View Post

    so the 2 pills can save those people from dreaming for pentax ff,
    the bitter pill - selling out their ff lens;
    the sweet pill - pentax make a ff dslr.
    I think some of them get a FF DSLR from other brands and use adaptor.

  10. #50
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by subatoyo View Post
    Are u speaking of yourself?
    Sure, whatever floats your boat.

    Interesting that you choose to ignore the quoted post by yourself, btw. But I guess some people are not willing to take responsibility for their actions. Post one thing, and then say another thing later on when people take issue (not offence, mind you, the choice of words was made carefully).

    I don't see why there is a need to hold any conversation if TS is simply hell-bent on insisting that Pentax will die without FF, and everyone wants FF, so I'm out of here. I think I was quite clear on why I mentioned my photographic experience of 7 years, it wasn't to flaunt anything but simply to show that I've shot countless landscapes with APS-C for 7 years and never switched to FF.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 22nd October 2013 at 06:15 PM.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post

    Sure, whatever floats your boat.

    Interesting that you choose to ignore the quoted post by yourself and instead resort to trying to anger me. Doesn't work, sorry.
    Up to u.cheers!

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by subatoyo View Post
    I never said that landscape must need ff. I mge;-) tself is shooting landscape with k30 and k5iis.I meant some of the landscape shooter move on to ff after they are better.why must u be so offensive? Having 7 years of shooting doesn't mean u can be so arrogant.... Haha kidding.talking about masturbation, long time never do liao.: )
    7 years only..... Double that and you can consider yourself a sexpert ? ...... Lol
    Last edited by Zenten; 22nd October 2013 at 06:25 PM.
    Nikomi Canpen Zenten :eek:
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  13. #53

  14. #54

    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    And I thought we had a good discussion going.....

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    And I thought we had a good discussion going.....
    Sorry guys for having spoiled the good discussion.I apologize for my impulsiveness and being too sensitive.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Pentax Full Frame around Christmas

    Sorry I have to close this one. Let's talk about Ricoh and Pentax here, we got kopi section for others

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