Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: TalkingCock - Philip Yeo Sparks Surge in Sex Change Operations and Emigration

  1. #1

    Thumbs up TalkingCock - Philip Yeo Sparks Surge in Sex Change Operations and Emigration

    by K.K. Cheow

    A*Star Chairman Philip Yeo’s recent comments that he prefers giving scholarships to foreigners and girls has led to a surge in sex change operations and emigration.

    In a recent interview, the ever voluble Mr. Yeo gave Bush UN appointee John Bolton a run in the diplomacy stakes when he told The Nude Paper that “I don’t want whining Singapore boys. They are not mature enough even though they have national service and are over 22 years old when they take up undergraduate studies. They give me so much trouble and waste our precious time.”

    The State’s Times then did a follow up piece on the brouhaha that ensued, and even included a pinup of a woman A*Star scholar agreeing with Mr. Yeo, and hypothesizing that Singapore men start complaining because they’re not used to army regimentation or physical training.

    In the wake of his comments, Singapore hospitals are apparently now backed up with bookings for sex change operations – all by prospective male scholars.

    “Boh pian lor,” said prospective scholar Khee Tuck Chek. “Mr Yeo says we’re too wimpy, but also says we should be more like girls. I’m damn confused, man! But I really want the scholarship, so I think better potong to improve my chances.”

    Similarly, Lieutenant (NSF) Desker Loh has begun taking oestrogen to improve his chances of scoring a scholarship to study biotech.

    “What better way to demonstrate my sincerity than to experiment with my own biology?” said LTA (NSF) Loh, displaying significant cleavage. “Anyway, I also think I can tap into Mr. Yeo’s preference for girls, because in NS, I was in the Music and Drama Company.”

    “It’s true that we guys get whiny thanks to NS,” said Corporal (NSF) Choe Sai Kang, who is also contemplating an A*Star scholarship. “But that’s all you can do when you encounter stupidity and can’t do anything about it because if you do, you’ll kena DB. Anyway, if we’re whining about A*Star scholarship conditions even after doing NS, what does that say about A*Star except that they’re more condemned than the SAF? I guess that’s Singapore for you: they want us not only to face up to stupidity, they want us to like it too.”

    Those who can’t bear changing their sex, have opted to change their nationality instead.

    “After taking two years of **** for my country, not only is it not appreciated, I’m told they’d rather have foreigners who have never endured a single day for Singapore,” said Mr. Mohd Cabut bin Negara. “I wish I’d known earlier. If so, I’d have emigrated long ago so I can be the kind of person that Mr Yeo wants for Singapore.”

    Meanwhile, a spokesman for A*Star has said that the hoopla has only proven Mr. Yeo’s point that Singapore men are whiny, thin-skinned girly men who can’t take unpleasantness.

    “Yeah, right,” said Corporal Choe. “I really accept that criticism from someone who threatens to sue obscure bloggers for defamation.”
    - http://www.talkingcock.com/html/article.php?sid=1708


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,218

    Default


  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Cons digger.
    Posts
    3,924

    Default

    i feel there is some truth to the joke.. :bsmillie:
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  4. #4

    Default

    very funny!! but should this be here if it's not related to photography?

  5. #5
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    really MORE diaper changes
    Posts
    17,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    you know... rather than lambasting s'pore guys (of which, he's one... unless he also potong...) as whimpy, why doesn't philip yeo flip the question ard and ask why are so many guy scholars breaking their scholarship bonds, rather dan saying the ladies never give him or A*star any problems?

    just to be a devil's advocate - could it be the guys have done so well dat the overseas institutions and companies are willing to pay the penalty for breaking the bond? (its not cheap to pay back the loan) if so, why or wat makes the terms of local scholarship so unattractive dat, if the right offer comes along, people dun mind breaking the bond in a heartbeat?

    caveat - i'm not for bond breaking, mind u.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiFruits
    very funny!! but should this be here if it's not related to photography?
    er, this is what is described of this sub-forum called "Kopitiam":
    "Informal, irreverent, and irrelevant chat happens in the coffeeshop "

  7. #7

    Default

    Actually, Philip Yeo also a bit bo pian. He prefers foreigners or local girls, but the fact is that they are investments that can go wrong. You can give foreigners PR, $$, but high chance is that they will want to return back to their country in 5, 8 or 10 years.
    Ladies might go get married, have kids ( willingly or unwillingly ) and contribute less.

    That explains why there are still a large number of male local scholars. Because, in his own words , "you can't have a local research insititute full of foreigners!"
    Let Mr Yeo be wimpy and complain instead, because if i am in his shoes, i will want to complain a bit too.

    Actually most bond breakers are from EDB. Why? EDB scholarships are awarded mainly to students with very good academic results. The problem is, most of these academically inclined students want to continue with their studies because they are geniuenly interested in their area. Yet, EDB wants them to come back and handle adminstrative duties, something rather unrelated. Hence explaining the trend of bond breaking whenever their financial situation allows it.

    Nightwolf : i highly doubt so that companies are willingly to fork out these $$. Because, it is really hard to distinguish yourself at undergraduate level.

    Perhaps they should change the scheme of goverment scholarships. Instead of a different scholarships( EDB, DSTA, ASTAR PSC ), let there be one. When a scholar graduate, he can then choose where to serve, if he want to contiune with graduate school, then move to the Astar section/ DSTA, if he want to work, then go eslewhere, eg EDB/PSC.
    In that way, you will not restrict the academically brillant/inclined to doing something he does not like ( like adminstrative duties in PSC ) or the not so academically inclined to research( if he was in the Astar scholarship).

    Oh yeah, i dun like that girl who made tat comment about males being wimpy. She can be **** smart and pretty, but making such discrimnatory and sterotypical comments only reflect her flaws.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Global Village
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus
    Actually, Philip Yeo also a bit bo pian. He prefers foreigners or local girls, but the fact is that they are investments that can go wrong. You can give foreigners PR, $$, but high chance is that they will want to return back to their country in 5, 8 or 10 years.
    Correction. A* Scholarship is given on condition that the applicant (if PR or foreign) takes up Singaporean citizenship. These scholarships are to renown (and not to mention bloodly expensive) unviersities eg Ivy league and Oxbridge) Exclude the so-called ASEAN scholarships given to our neighbouring countries..

    The scholarships do not necessarily be given to the brightest chaps. Rather it's given to the chaps whom the panel think will best serve Singapore. Successful scholarship holders should ideally be Singaporeans (or potential Singaporeans) who have the desires to serve Singapore when they returned from their studies. Also it's a hugh investment (and not to mention tax payers $$$) and limited awards, thus the panel has a tough task to identify these people. Bond-breakers are especially fowned because they denied others from receiving the scholarship.

    It's not just the money alone, but the heavy responsibilities of the panel (on behalf of the garmen) to identify capable young Singaporeans to lead Singapore in the next generation.

    "Disclaimer: All the characters in this story are fictitious and the story is purely frictional"
    Last edited by eric69; 18th May 2005 at 06:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Global Village
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus
    Perhaps they should change the scheme of goverment scholarships. Instead of a different scholarships( EDB, DSTA, ASTAR PSC ), let there be one. When a scholar graduate, he can then choose where to serve, if he want to contiune with graduate school, then move to the Astar section/ DSTA, if he want to work, then go eslewhere, eg EDB/PSC.
    Just to share, scholars eg PSC scholars, have the opportunity to request for a transfer to another Ministry or Stat Boards after X years eg. 2 years, in their early parts of their careers. All scholars are assigned a mentor (usually a hig-ranking official in the organisation) who will act as a guiding light to these young scholars. Further education and scholarships are readily available for these scholars if they have the desires to further their studies, after they accumulated a numbers of years of working experience. Not all jobs in the public sector is administrative desk bound jobs.


    Alot of people I know have a serious mis-conception of how the public sector works or how public scholarships are awarded in Singapore. I don't blame them because the easiest way out is to blame someone, in this case, the garmen. Also, contrasty to popular belief, PSC is in fact more flexible as compared to 10 years ago. Ask any scholars now who have a problem (be it studies etc), and PSC will always accomodate their requests if it's reasonable.

    Scholarships for these scholars are from tax-payers money. If you think of it this way, you will appreciate Yeo's job and agony.

    "Disclaimer: All the characters in this story are fictitious and the story is fricational"
    Last edited by eric69; 18th May 2005 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    really MORE diaper changes
    Posts
    17,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus

    Nightwolf : i highly doubt so that companies are willingly to fork out these $$. Because, it is really hard to distinguish yourself at undergraduate level.
    actually, they will. esp american companies. had a fren who was under scholarship (btw, she's a girl, but not under the EDB scholarship. darn.. if not, can use it and stick it up mr yeo's nether regions...) to read chemical engineering in UPenn. but, it seems she did so well during her studies there, one of the big banking firms (think it was citibank? can't remember...) actually bought her out of the scholarship, waited for her to finish off her mas in finance and then employed her. been, wat...., 5 yrs already? she's still in NY.

    btw, according to her, she's not the only example. apparantely, this is a very common practice in US where firms headhunts for the best and brightest once a year in the major top-notch universities. this, IIRC, was well documented in Newsweek and Times a few years ago in their issue of global talent hunting.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    I don't see why SG institutes should not employ foreigners, science worldwide is such that one works only for a few years and move on, to another project somewhere else, and this could well be in another country........so for SG scientist, you need to be aware that you may have to find another project overseas.........

    so if you think working in science means a permanent job: the majority are not permanent! Unless you want to be a lecturer although this one has also been changed recently at NUS (tenure track).........

    And regarding about Yeo: I have no comments............(he is just not worth it)
    Last edited by hongsien; 18th May 2005 at 09:05 PM.

  12. #12

    Default

    [QUOTE=nightwolf75]actually, they will. esp american companies. had a fren who was under scholarship (btw, she's a girl, but not under the EDB scholarship. darn.. if not, can use it and stick it up mr yeo's nether regions...) to read chemical engineering in UPenn. but, it seems she did so well during her studies there, one of the big banking firms (think it was citibank? can't remember...) actually bought her out of the scholarship, waited for her to finish off her mas in finance and then employed her. been, wat...., 5 yrs already? she's still in NY.

    I seem to remember reading about her. She was an Indian right? And was offered a job by Credit Sussie. But i think she wasn't under any scholarship becasue there was this huge spread of her on the papers, showing a jubliant girl in graduation gown. Her article came after Mr Yeo named all the scholars who broke bond, all the spate of articles about quitters and stayers and highlighted her as one foreginer scholar who wanted to return home eventually.

    Maybe we are talking about different girls here.

    Of course, there are private companies that buys out scholarships. I had a JC teacher under PSC who wrote an exceptional Master's thesis in Econonmics and was brought out by some investment firm. But that was after he had proved his worth...

  13. #13
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    really MORE diaper changes
    Posts
    17,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus
    I seem to remember reading about her. She was an Indian right? And was offered a job by Credit Sussie. But i think she wasn't under any scholarship becasue there was this huge spread of her on the papers, showing a jubliant girl in graduation gown. Her article came after Mr Yeo named all the scholars who broke bond, all the spate of articles about quitters and stayers and highlighted her as one foreginer scholar who wanted to return home eventually.

    Maybe we are talking about different girls here.

    Of course, there are private companies that buys out scholarships. I had a JC teacher under PSC who wrote an exceptional Master's thesis in Econonmics and was brought out by some investment firm. But that was after he had proved his worth...
    nah. different. my fren's a chinese!

    but, point proven. during dat time in the early 1990s, there are hundreds of such cases dat DUN make the news. funny our mr yeo seems to conveniently forgot abt them - ie girls breaking bonds. shesshh... the point is, if u have proven ur worth, hundreds of companies/headhunters will be lining up outside ur dorm door to sign u up. question still remains - why is our scholarship system so rigid/myopic/staid/etc... dat people are breaking them in a heartbeat?

    so, rather than thumping his breast (pun absolutely intended) and squealing dat s'pore guys are whimps/chumps/bodohs/watever..., IMO, he and everyone else on scholarship boards shld re-look (to use a overused term, re-engineer) the way scholarships are given and their T&Cs.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    What I find more dangerous is that Mr Yeo urges everyone to study Science, and in particular genetics/molecuar biology. Then he goes even further by pointing that they will only pick the best for working in the companies......

    How many people can these companies employ? 500? 1000? 10000?......how many graduates are there going to be in Science? Maybe 5000 in 5 years time? I don't see the companies to be able to give all of them jobs! There are not that many needed in science/research, as it is very expensive and companies are not going to emply too many.

    So, I think Yeo is picturing a much too rosy picture of the future (in jobs respects), and I worry that many young people won't be able to find jobs! Many lives/dreams will be ruined, unless they can easily find other jobs.........

    Hong Sien

  15. #15
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    really MORE diaper changes
    Posts
    17,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    What I find more dangerous is that Mr Yeo urges everyone to study Science, and in particular genetics/molecuar biology. Then he goes even further by pointing that they will only pick the best for working in the companies......

    How many people can these companies employ? 500? 1000? 10000?......how many graduates are there going to be in Science? Maybe 5000 in 5 years time? I don't see the companies to be able to give all of them jobs! There are not that many needed in science/research, as it is very expensive and companies are not going to emply too many.

    So, I think Yeo is picturing a much too rosy picture of the future (in jobs respects), and I worry that many young people won't be able to find jobs! Many lives/dreams will be ruined, unless they can easily find other jobs.........

    Hong Sien

    btw, locals are only 'good' enuf to wash test tubes for the 'foreign talent'. remember this infamous quote from him last yr? so, locals go study bioscience also useless.

    actually, this is deja vu again. in the late 80s and early 90s, it was computer/IT craze. every other scholarship given out was for IT-related disciplines. a lot of my JC classmates took it up. problem was when they came back with all their degrees... the dot.com burst. plus, the local polys were churning out hundreds of IT folks (after all, they had a headstart as the polys had established IT depts long b4 there was a dot boom) during the years my classmates were away. also, these poly grads can go to uni in australia, skip the 1st or 2nd yrs, and get their degrees in abt 1yr. by the time these folks started working, the ink on my overseas frens' degrees were not even dry yet. my frens were on the loosing end. a few of them ended up as IT trainers in the then NCB (now Spring Singapore). quite a lot of them actually gave up IT after serving their bonds. poor them...
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

  16. #16

    Default

    The studies of Science is intresting and interactive...esp Biology. There is a NEED to know what is happening to us, be it enviromental and physically. In the early 90s, engineering used to be popular, until the 21st Century. Reason being that our economy has grown progressively during a short spandwith. Now the trend is into Biotechnology and Medcine...take a look @ the poly sci course entrance grades...WTF! Ppl from HCJC, NJC, RJC, SAJC can apply for these courses! But how long could it last?30 years?

    Sian...do we have to compromise with the Govt every now and then?If MM says " Got the grades? Go JC!" How many of us are bound to follow?I'm sure that the parliment wld give some study benefits to these students...like in the case of the fall of birthrates and the issue of teenage pregnancy?(sorry if i'm being touchy on this but I think that the govt might be trying to encourage pregnant teens to keep their child instead of an abortion...go watch "First Mums" to comprehend my statement.Premartial sex and premarital pregnancy is a shameful aspect of female livelihood!Boys shld oso watch their actions!)

    Then what about the issue of foriegn talents? Few would stay on here, the rest returns!

    Then another I would daringy bring up...the allowance for Poly students to enter the Uni without being so hard on them. There is a NEED for those in the Engin' and Arts faculty to persue higher education. I do wish that they wld relook in the msatter of Uni admissions. So many of these students r frm JCs whilst Poly grads go to go overseas to persue higher edu. The result? Poly grads studying at an Overseas Uni tend to stay put there, leaving the JC grads in the local Uni to work here in SG. And we all know that the JC ppl r very academic...thus the trend to break bond.

    Sigh...sigh...sigh...

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75
    btw, locals are only 'good' enuf to wash test tubes for the 'foreign talent'. remember this infamous quote from him last yr? so, locals go study bioscience also useless.

    actually, this is deja vu again. in the late 80s and early 90s, it was computer/IT craze. every other scholarship given out was for IT-related disciplines. a lot of my JC classmates took it up. problem was when they came back with all their degrees... the dot.com burst. plus, the local polys were churning out hundreds of IT folks (after all, they had a headstart as the polys had established IT depts long b4 there was a dot boom) during the years my classmates were away. also, these poly grads can go to uni in australia, skip the 1st or 2nd yrs, and get their degrees in abt 1yr. by the time these folks started working, the ink on my overseas frens' degrees were not even dry yet. my frens were on the loosing end. a few of them ended up as IT trainers in the then NCB (now Spring Singapore). quite a lot of them actually gave up IT after serving their bonds. poor them...

    Sometimes...its bcause of the entrance grade problem...u dun mit the grade, sorry i won't accept you, though ur inclined in this aspect. The Eng and IT courses in the polys r the easiest to enter.All you need is a max of 26 pts and you are in!

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75
    btw, locals are only 'good' enuf to wash test tubes for the 'foreign talent'. remember this infamous quote from him last yr? so, locals go study bioscience also useless.
    That's not what he said lah, something close to if don't have PHD then can only wash testtubes...... if I remember correctly.
    36frames Wedding Photography - http://www.36frames.com
    rueyloon - http://www.rueyloon.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75
    btw, locals are only 'good' enuf to wash test tubes for the 'foreign talent'. remember this infamous quote from him last yr? so, locals go study bioscience also useless.

    actually, this is deja vu again. in the late 80s and early 90s, it was computer/IT craze. every other scholarship given out was for IT-related disciplines. a lot of my JC classmates took it up. problem was when they came back with all their degrees... the dot.com burst. plus, the local polys were churning out hundreds of IT folks (after all, they had a headstart as the polys had established IT depts long b4 there was a dot boom) during the years my classmates were away. also, these poly grads can go to uni in australia, skip the 1st or 2nd yrs, and get their degrees in abt 1yr. by the time these folks started working, the ink on my overseas frens' degrees were not even dry yet. my frens were on the loosing end. a few of them ended up as IT trainers in the then NCB (now Spring Singapore). quite a lot of them actually gave up IT after serving their bonds. poor them...
    You quoted wrongly!: he said that if you are not good enough, you will end up cleaning tubes, those who are good should pursue PhD's, ........he did put it bluntly, but there us only one career path in science: you need to pursue higher grades: get a PhD! No choice, thats life in science.....it never ends to learn......

    Another fact in science is that one never put at one place for a long time, most postdoc jobs are only for 1-3 years, if you are lucky they will review for another year or so, depending on funding, and this is worldwide, not only in SG.

    I notice some 'bad' feelings against foreigners here: all I can say is that most of these foreigners are indeed here temporarily, not only because they want to leave soon after, but thats just the fact in science: jobs are NOT permanent (as stated above), also, the world now has become very small.......

    one need to think of going overseas oneself.....thats fact of life for a scientist. If you don't like it, then don't do it. I was one of those foreign (not a talent if I may say) scientist in SG, and after looking at my (foreign) colleagues with families having to move all along with them, it is not that easy as many of you here may think. There is no such thing as a permanent job in Science, except for lecturers (if you like teaching). This is one of the main reasons foreign talent come and go........

    I don't know about other foreigners working here.....I can only give you glims of a scientist point of view who worked inSG before........now I am trying to start a photography career :-).

    Even lecturer jobs at NUS are now not complete tenure tracked anymore....they want the flexibility to get new blood.

    As for the Poly students getting better job starts, can you blame them? What would you do in their position? It is the job of the government to create the environment that make it possible to create more jobs........however I don't see ten of thousands of jobs in Science coming, at the most 5000 in 5-10 years time. I believe there will be more science graduates if everyone chooses this line, and I am really concerned the majority will jus not be able to find jobs in it.

    One other thing for doing science: it is not the grades thats important, but the ability to SOLVE problems. I have seen to many students with good grades but fail to find solutions when faced with problems. Another thing: interest in science is very important, this makes good motivation.......more important than good grades.....but then again, the system here in Asia is more on discerning people on their school performance, sigh.......

    Hong Sien

  20. #20
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    really MORE diaper changes
    Posts
    17,867
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    You quoted wrongly!: he said that if you are not good enough, you will end up cleaning tubes, those who are good should pursue PhD's, ........he did put it bluntly, but there us only one career path in science: you need to pursue higher grades: get a PhD! No choice, thats life in science.....it never ends to learn......

    Another fact in science is that one never put at one place for a long time, most postdoc jobs are only for 1-3 years, if you are lucky they will review for another year or so, depending on funding, and this is worldwide, not only in SG.

    I notice some 'bad' feelings against foreigners here: all I can say is that most of these foreigners are indeed here temporarily, not only because they want to leave soon after, but thats just the fact in science: jobs are NOT permanent (as stated above), also, the world now has become very small.......

    one need to think of going overseas oneself.....thats fact of life for a scientist. If you don't like it, then don't do it. I was one of those foreign (not a talent if I may say) scientist in SG, and after looking at my (foreign) colleagues with families having to move all along with them, it is not that easy as many of you here may think. There is no such thing as a permanent job in Science, except for lecturers (if you like teaching). This is one of the main reasons foreign talent come and go........

    I don't know about other foreigners working here.....I can only give you glims of a scientist point of view who worked inSG before........now I am trying to start a photography career :-).

    Even lecturer jobs at NUS are now not complete tenure tracked anymore....they want the flexibility to get new blood.

    As for the Poly students getting better job starts, can you blame them? What would you do in their position? It is the job of the government to create the environment that make it possible to create more jobs........however I don't see ten of thousands of jobs in Science coming, at the most 5000 in 5-10 years time. I believe there will be more science graduates if everyone chooses this line, and I am really concerned the majority will jus not be able to find jobs in it.

    One other thing for doing science: it is not the grades thats important, but the ability to SOLVE problems. I have seen to many students with good grades but fail to find solutions when faced with problems. Another thing: interest in science is very important, this makes good motivation.......more important than good grades.....but then again, the system here in Asia is more on discerning people on their school performance, sigh.......

    Hong Sien

    my apologies.

    btw, i've nothing agst foreign talent... provided they are real talent. wat i'm wary of is blindly recruiting 'talent' as long as they are foreign. back in uni, i've seen far too many good local lecturers not given extension or have their teaching contract terminated becos of the drive to go 'foreign' a few years ago. if anecedotal evidence is true from my juniors in uni now, these 'talented' lecturers are ....

    but, we digress... back to topic, shall we, abt scholarship?
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •