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Thread: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

  1. #1

    Default Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Hi

    Iím sort of a newbie here. I own a Pentax Optio W60 which is about 5 years old. I am thinking of getting a new camera and I couldnít decide between a point-and-shoot or a mirrorless.

    Perhaps a bit about my usage habit:
    I travel about once or twice a year and like to take photos during trips
    When Iím not travelling, I like to attend festivals such as the Night Festival, Kite Festival and so on
    Sometimes I will just bring camera along to take photos of streets and structures around Singapore when Iím out

    I prefer camera that is small enough to carry around easily but also gives me the option of fiddling with settings. My current camera is great for day-shots and still shots. But when comes to low-light and fast moving shots, it is not so good.

    I tried to do some homework but I am seriously lost in the vast world of information and all those jargons.
    I read the threads on How to choose a camera (the sensor format method) and When Newbies Ask For Help in NEWBIES CORNER ...... and I am sorry to say, I got real lost on the first thread and I am very sorry I donít even know where to begin my search.

    Also I got to confess, I havenít gone to the shops to do hands-on yet, only reading from the web. I am looking at brands like Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung.

    So I was hoping experts here can give me pointers and perhaps recommend some brands/models. Any help will be greatly appreciated and please donít ďscoldĒ me.

    Lolandra

  2. #2

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    "Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung" You're misisng one of the biggest players: Sony.

    For your needs, sounds like the RX100 (mark 1 or Mark 2) will be all you'd need.

    "Also I got to confess, I haven’t gone to the shops to do hands-on yet," - this is the most important part.
    Alpha

  3. #3
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post
    Hi

    I’m sort of a newbie here. I own a Pentax Optio W60 which is about 5 years old. I am thinking of getting a new camera and I couldn’t decide between a point-and-shoot or a mirrorless.

    Perhaps a bit about my usage habit:
    I travel about once or twice a year and like to take photos during trips
    When I’m not travelling, I like to attend festivals such as the Night Festival, Kite Festival and so on
    Sometimes I will just bring camera along to take photos of streets and structures around Singapore when I’m out

    I prefer camera that is small enough to carry around easily but also gives me the option of fiddling with settings. My current camera is great for day-shots and still shots. But when comes to low-light and fast moving shots, it is not so good.

    I tried to do some homework but I am seriously lost in the vast world of information and all those jargons.
    I read the threads on How to choose a camera (the sensor format method) and When Newbies Ask For Help in NEWBIES CORNER ...... and I am sorry to say, I got real lost on the first thread and I am very sorry I don’t even know where to begin my search.

    Also I got to confess, I haven’t gone to the shops to do hands-on yet, only reading from the web. I am looking at brands like Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung.

    So I was hoping experts here can give me pointers and perhaps recommend some brands/models. Any help will be greatly appreciated and please don’t “scold” me.

    Lolandra
    If you need something that are better for night shots, a few compact came into mind,

    1) Sony RX100 - (1 inch size sensor)
    2) Fujifilm X20
    3) Fujifilm X100 - (APS-C size sensor)
    4) Nikon Coolpix A (APS-C size sensor)
    5) Sigma DP series of camera (APS-C size sensor)
    6) Ricoh GR (APS-C size sensor)
    7) Canon G1X (bigger sized sensor as compared to even micro four-third camera)

    As a general guide (not really true all the time, but most of the time), the bigger the sensor of the camera, the better the high ISO noise performance which means you can get better shots at dark scene (eg. night scene). and in short,

    The sensor size comparison,

    1) Full frame sensor (for compact camera there is only one such camera at the moment - Sony RX1 which cost around S$3k) - biggest sensor size
    2) APS-C size sensor (second largest)
    3) G1X sensor (only Canon G1X feature this sensor) (third largest)
    4) Micro 4/3 sensor (at present only Olympus and Panasonic mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras) (forth largest)
    5) 1 inch sensor (which was featured in RX100 camera) (5th largest)
    6) 1/1.7 inch sensor (featured in most premium point and shoot camera like the Canon G15)
    7) 1/2.3 inch sensor (most point and shoot camera had this type of sensor)

    Hope it helps.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  4. #4

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post

    I am thinking of getting a new camera and I couldn’t decide between a point-and-shoot or a mirrorless.
    Maybe you can share with us your budget for the camera?

    I currently have the NEX 5N and the Panasonic LX7, so I can only comment on these two.

    Both are very good cameras in their price range.

    The NEX 5N has a larger sensor but you'll need to dive into the menu to change some settings(ISO etc). This camera is a beast at night, very good high ISO performance, so you'll be able to shoot without a flash in most situations.

    The Panasonic LX7's advantage is that you change the aperture via the ring on the lens, so it useful when you need to make changes fast(without having to dive into the menu). Its also great for low light photography because of the fast f1.4 lens.

    The disadvantage of point-and-shoot cameras is that you cannot change lenses, and the sensor size is smaller than the mirrorless cameras(with APSC sensors)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    "Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung" You're missing one of the biggest players: Sony.

    For your needs, sounds like the RX100 (mark 1 or Mark 2) will be all you'd need.

    "Also I got to confess, I haven’t gone to the shops to do hands-on yet," - this is the most important part.
    Thanks Rashkae. Will take that into consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    If you need something that are better for night shots, a few compact came into mind,

    1) Sony RX100 - (1 inch size sensor)
    2) Fujifilm X20
    3) Fujifilm X100 - (APS-C size sensor)
    4) Nikon Coolpix A (APS-C size sensor)
    5) Sigma DP series of camera (APS-C size sensor)
    6) Ricoh GR (APS-C size sensor)
    7) Canon G1X (bigger sized sensor as compared to even micro four-third camera)

    As a general guide (not really true all the time, but most of the time), the bigger the sensor of the camera, the better the high ISO noise performance which means you can get better shots at dark scene (eg. night scene). and in short,

    The sensor size comparison,

    1) Full frame sensor (for compact camera there is only one such camera at the moment - Sony RX1 which cost around S$3k) - biggest sensor size
    2) APS-C size sensor (second largest)
    3) G1X sensor (only Canon G1X feature this sensor) (third largest)
    4) Micro 4/3 sensor (at present only Olympus and Panasonic mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras) (forth largest)
    5) 1 inch sensor (which was featured in RX100 camera) (5th largest)
    6) 1/1.7 inch sensor (featured in most premium point and shoot camera like the Canon G15)
    7) 1/2.3 inch sensor (most point and shoot camera had this type of sensor)

    Hope it helps.
    Thanks, rhino123. At least now I know what in the camera determines better night shots. I came across terms like APS-C, Mircro 4/3 but cannot figure out what they all meant. Thanks for enlightening.

    Quote Originally Posted by photoart View Post
    Maybe you can share with us your budget for the camera?

    I currently have the NEX 5N and the Panasonic LX7, so I can only comment on these two.

    Both are very good cameras in their price range.

    The NEX 5N has a larger sensor but you'll need to dive into the menu to change some settings(ISO etc). This camera is a beast at night, very good high ISO performance, so you'll be able to shoot without a flash in most situations.

    The Panasonic LX7's advantage is that you change the aperture via the ring on the lens, so it useful when you need to make changes fast(without having to dive into the menu). Its also great for low light photography because of the fast f1.4 lens.

    The disadvantage of point-and-shoot cameras is that you cannot change lenses, and the sensor size is smaller than the mirrorless cameras(with APSC sensors)
    photoart, budget about $600+ max. hrm… I know this probably sounds silly. Can I confirm if mirrorless cameras mean interchangeable lens cameras? Or just that it is mirrorless, unlike the full DSLR? Again I read that mirrorless cameras are a combination of compact body with DSLR quality pictures (something like that)

    Do mirrorless cameras usually have less optical zoom?


    Thank you all for taking time to answer. Please be patient with me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post
    Can I confirm if mirrorless cameras mean interchangeable lens cameras?

    Do mirrorless cameras usually have less optical zoom?
    "Mirrorless" generally refers to mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, yes. As for the "optical zoom" (I really suggest you learn what focal length is and what "zoom" really means), this depends on the lens you attach.

    Please remember that "zoom" is just a marketing term, and actually refers to "longest focal length / shortest focal length". So a 10-35mm lens would be "3.5x zoom" but a 400-800mm lens would be "2x zoom". But guess which will give you better "reach"?
    Alpha

  7. #7

  8. #8

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    "Mirrorless" generally refers to mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, yes. As for the "optical zoom" (I really suggest you learn what focal length is and what "zoom" really means), this depends on the lens you attach.

    Please remember that "zoom" is just a marketing term, and actually refers to "longest focal length / shortest focal length". So a 10-35mm lens would be "3.5x zoom" but a 400-800mm lens would be "2x zoom". But guess which will give you better "reach"?
    Rashkae, thanks. i did a wiki search on focal length and couldn't really understand. is there sort of a general rule like what focal length is good for what sort of photos kind of thing? or can u point me to a place where i can read up more? so sorry. im really not v familiar with these photography jargons.


    Quote Originally Posted by kandinsky View Post
    thanks kandinsky for the link. was so overwhelm with all the readings from those digital camera websites that i forgot to look at wikepedia.


    after reading the replies, at least now i know which are the ones i can consider. now perhaps just need to figure out more about what each terms mean and then go to shops for hands-on.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post
    Rashkae, thanks. i did a wiki search on focal length and couldn't really understand. is there sort of a general rule like what focal length is good for what sort of photos kind of thing? or can u point me to a place where i can read up more? so sorry. im really not v familiar with these photography jargons.

    thanks kandinsky for the link. was so overwhelm with all the readings from those digital camera websites that i forgot to look at wikepedia.

    after reading the replies, at least now i know which are the ones i can consider. now perhaps just need to figure out more about what each terms mean and then go to shops for hands-on.
    Yes, the newbies guide sticky has detailed explanations.
    Alpha

  10. #10

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Yes, the newbies guide sticky has detailed explanations.
    thanks. going to check those out.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Don't give you a long list. May only confuse you. Just give you three choices (not in order of ranking).

    Buy any one of the 3:
    ē Sony RX100 (the old one, not the recent Model 2 which I think is not a good design)
    ē Lumix GX7
    ē Olympus EP5

  12. #12

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Hi lolandra,
    Since you owned a Pentax before, do you know that Pentax has Q series tiny mirrorless camera. You may want to take a
    look at it. I don't own any Q camera, it's just a suggestion. This Bro did a good review with the Q7, check this
    out http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1292695

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Hi lolandra,

    Your budget around $600+ , then maybe you can try look into olympus Ep3, now they having promotion 14-42 mm kit lens, free 17mm f2.8 lens plus extra battery.
    I bought one few week ago, the image look good.( Am using nikon D7000. Cos of the weight for traveling I decided to buy a smaller camera. the Ep 3 with the price now is very good buy.)
    Maybe u can try to read out the review first .

    Hope these give u a little help..

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    If max 600+. Yes EP3. Very easy to use. A no stress camera. Reasonably good pics.
    But the Sony RX100 (old model) may be on offer. US$553 on Amazon. Heard Hong Kong can get for Sing $650. New. Not second hand.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 6th September 2013 at 01:00 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Thanks everyone for all the info and suggestions. Am gg to research on them over this weekend. hopefully can arrive with a decision soon. cheers!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Most of the advanced pns are pretty good nowadays, being able to cope in most situations. (eg. Q; Lx7; MX-1; XZ-1, etc)

    I am using a Pentax Q7 and I think its a nice little camera that take a series of interchangeable lenses (some with large aperture).
    I wrote about my experience using the system in a real world usage situations here :
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1292695

    AFAIK, another user is using it for his Europe trip.
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showt...210614&page=10
    From post #182


    Other MILC you can look at are the m4/3; X-series; NEX.
    The Samsung NX series is very good too (esp. the new ones), very under-rated imo.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 6th September 2013 at 10:15 AM.

  17. #17
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post
    I am looking at brands like Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung.
    We might be a bit lose with our terms .. shooting birds, people, airplanes. But please be careful if someone offers you a Cannon ...
    EOS

  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lolandra View Post
    Hi

    I’m sort of a newbie here. I own a Pentax Optio W60 which is about 5 years old. I am thinking of getting a new camera and I couldn’t decide between a point-and-shoot or a mirrorless.

    Perhaps a bit about my usage habit:
    I travel about once or twice a year and like to take photos during trips
    When I’m not travelling, I like to attend festivals such as the Night Festival, Kite Festival and so on
    Sometimes I will just bring camera along to take photos of streets and structures around Singapore when I’m out

    I prefer camera that is small enough to carry around easily but also gives me the option of fiddling with settings. My current camera is great for day-shots and still shots. But when comes to low-light and fast moving shots, it is not so good.

    I tried to do some homework but I am seriously lost in the vast world of information and all those jargons.
    I read the threads on How to choose a camera (the sensor format method) and When Newbies Ask For Help in NEWBIES CORNER ...... and I am sorry to say, I got real lost on the first thread and I am very sorry I don’t even know where to begin my search.

    Also I got to confess, I haven’t gone to the shops to do hands-on yet, only reading from the web. I am looking at brands like Nikon, Cannon, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and maybe Samsung.

    So I was hoping experts here can give me pointers and perhaps recommend some brands/models. Any help will be greatly appreciated and please don’t “scold” me.

    Lolandra
    I have been using dslr for few years but needed a compact pns for my traveling when i wanna go light.

    so, I was also looking for compact 2 months ago ended up with canon G15 after my research and trying in camera shops. I feel its very good for my needs. U may consider it too its pretty nice little cam with good proportion of compactness and features. Plus the lens is bright even on the zoom compare to other similar range compacts and this gives real advatnage in lowlight and to have some oof area if u r interested in
    U may check flickr.com/imm_arshad few new photos of cameron highlands taken from this cam
    Moreover i found its the best camera ergonomically (for my hands) i found it very balanced and switches are nicely positioned for easy operation

  19. #19

    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    We might be a bit lose with our terms .. shooting birds, people, airplanes. But please be careful if someone offers you a Cannon ...
    hahaha.... i jus realised the mistake. oops

    ok, after much researching (pending hands-on), its going to be either panasonic Lumix GF6 or Sony Nex-5T or Sony RX100 II. But since Sony RX100 II seems to be expensive, so left with two choices.

    Now just need to pop down to shop to see the real things before heading to SITEX end of this month to get it.

    Any opinions are still welcome.
    Last edited by lolandra; 18th November 2013 at 01:28 PM. Reason: .

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Point-and-Shoot or Mirrorless ?

    I think you will get a better price buying from the reputable shops than at SITEX...
    In the eyes of the beholder!

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