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Thread: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

  1. #1

    Default My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Hello...

    http://www.tomato.sg/blog/the-busine...l-what-is-not/

    Welcome to comment here on what you think.


    Regards,

    Hart

  2. #2

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Agree on the whole especially the 35% 65% example. Thus I think you need to further highlight the point where now in a world of "everything amateurs give out for free", how to make 65% more to secure that 35%. The floodgates are opened.

    When you are doing it for living, you are at this inherent 'disadvantage'. Depending on the genre and field, it could be very hard unless you own a significant competitive edge, which could manifest in different ways and which some people will always be mediocre and never develop that edge.

    When one develops it or found it, how to protect it and keep the industry alive. Which awkwardly means keeping some type people out; as best a politically correct way to say it as I could.
    Last edited by JasonB; 5th September 2013 at 02:13 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    Agree on the whole especially the 35% 65% example. Thus I think you need to further highlight the point where now in a world of "everything amateurs give out for free", how to make 65% more to secure that 35%. The floodgates are opened.

    When you are doing it for living, you are at this inherent 'disadvantage'. Depending on the genre and field, it could be very hard unless you own a significant competitive edge, which could manifest in different ways and which some people will always be mediocre and never develop that edge.

    When one develops it or found it, how to protect it and keep the industry alive. Which awkwardly means keeping some type people out; as best a politically correct way to say it as I could.
    Hi Jason,

    Thanks for your comment.

    The purpose of the pose is to share my views about the business side, mainly from the perspective of Salary vs revenue argument.

    I don't see the need to comment on what amateurs do... they are called amateurs for a reason and no, they are not in for the business and they will always be there.

    I actually like to have the mix of amateurs and shoot and burn photographers in the market. It is actually act as a filter that really differentiate photographer and amateurs.

    If anyone hope to make a living from photography, you need to mean it and do what you need to do to stay on top of those filter. Those that are not willing to put everything in, well, they will just get caught in the filter. The condition inside those filter is unfortunately unfavorable.

    Business world is just like in a war... sadly, it is a cruel world.

    Those who never develop the competitive edge will face uphill battle unless, they choose to join someone who can help them to open up their vision. If there is a will, there is a way. However, most importantly, keep an open mind as there are always many solutions to one challenge.

    Good luck.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 5th September 2013 at 04:24 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Hi Jason,

    Thanks for your comment.

    The purpose of the pose is to share my views about the business side, mainly from the perspective of Salary vs revenue argument.

    I don't see the need to comment on what amateurs do... they are called amateurs for a reason and no, they are not in for the business and they will always be there.

    I actually like to have the mix of amateurs and shoot and burn photographers in the market. It is actually act as a filter that really differentiate photographer and amateurs.

    If anyone hope to make a living from photography, you need to mean it and do what you need to do to stay on top of those filter. Those that are not willing to put everything in, well, they will just get caught in the filter. The condition inside those filter is unfortunately unfavorable.

    Business world is just like in a war... sadly, it is a cruel world.

    Those who never develop the competitive edge will face uphill battle unless, they choose to join someone who can help them to open up their vision. If there is a will, there is a way. However, most importantly, keep an open mind as there are always many solutions to one challenge.

    Good luck.

    Regards,

    Hart
    JMH2C. Coz we have to be aware that your current situation and level are rather different from a starting pro photographer. He is admist the amatuers and that problem is very real to him. This is not against anyone or any group, but merely a fact. So if I am reading your message as a comfortable working pro, I will say I agree but thats about all; reinstating the obvious. If I am reading as a start up, I will ask at the end; how to solve the problem? Should I go in or get out? Thus the competitive edge is mentioned, and if I may bring forth another word/attitute; professionalism.

    Nonetheless I can empathise your need to be politically correct, for you had been a target of unfair framing for a while and you represent your brand and business.
    Last edited by JasonB; 5th September 2013 at 10:21 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    JMH2C. Coz we have to be aware that your current situation and level are rather different from a starting pro photographer. He is admist the amatuers and that problem is very real to him. This is not against anyone or any group, but merely a fact. So if I am reading your message as a comfortable working pro, I will say I agree but thats about all; reinstating the obvious. If I am reading as a start up, I will ask at the end; how to solve the problem? Should I go in or get out? Thus the competitive edge is mentioned, and if I may bring forth another word/attitute; professionalism.

    Nonetheless I can empathise your need to be politically correct, for you had been a target of unfair framing for a while and you represent your brand and business.


    Well, I don't see the need to be politically correct but I don't see the need to ruffle the feathers either for obvious reason as you mention. Just stating something so obvious that may not be obvious for many.

    Regards,

    Hart

  6. #6

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    "everything amateurs give out for free"
    Always other ppl fault. The amateur give it for free, the low ballers cut my profit, the clients are insensitive, my assistant is useless, my family is not supportive, The gahmen, oh... gahmen....gahmen is even worse, etc, etc. It is easier to blame the world than to blame oneself.

    Just saying...

  7. #7

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    Always other ppl fault. The amateur give it for free, the low ballers cut my profit, the clients are insensitive, my assistant is useless, my family is not supportive, The gahmen, oh... gahmen....gahmen is even worse, etc, etc. It is easier to blame the world than to blame oneself.

    Just saying...
    Load of nonsense you accused me of. Please read carefully before you try to frame people. We are discussing about competitive edge but you put a long string of words into my mouth. It is people like you that makes photo biz forum a pain to contribute.

  8. #8
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    My take is;

    1)
    when a photographer doing photography as business,
    only less than 20% of his/her working hours is shooting,
    80% of his/her working hours is doing admin work, marketing, selling and etc.

    if his/her just like to shoot all day long, best is get himself / herself hired as a freelancer, so he/she don't have to do most of the non photography chores.


    2)
    in a photography business
    photographer should pay himself first, and his "salary" is an "expenses" to the business, is not an "earning"
    the "gross profit" is "sale" minus "cost of goods".
    the "net profit" is "gross profit" minus all the "expenses"

    as a business owner, he is taking a "salary" and entitle to the "net profit" from his business. since he own the business, making efforts and taking risk for the business.
    and usually the "net profit" is about 20% to 30% of the "gross sale".

    so in another word, photographer (business owner) want to make $1000 "net profit" per month, he need to make a gross sale of $3300 to $5000 per month.
    and if the business is not making profits, he still able to take a salary.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  9. #9
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    just a reminder,

    Please post constructive comments in this section, doing business is dead serious business matter, any irreverent comments will take as off topic post.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  10. #10

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    I mention about self employed business.

    What you mention is about having a company so your "salary" is not the same as company profit.

    When you do self employment and set up as sole proprietary, the profit is your salary. No?

    It doesn't matter if u pay yourself first or last because at the end in the eye of tax it is still your income if set up as sole proprietor.

    Regards,

    Hart

  11. #11

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    My take is;

    1)
    when a photographer doing photography as business,
    only less than 20% of his/her working hours is shooting,
    80% of his/her working hours is doing admin work, marketing, selling and etc.

    if his/her just like to shoot all day long, best is get himself / herself hired as a freelancer, so he/she don't have to do most of the non photography chores.


    2)
    in a photography business
    photographer should pay himself first, and his "salary" is an "expenses" to the business, is not an "earning"
    the "gross profit" is "sale" minus "cost of goods".
    the "net profit" is "gross profit" minus all the "expenses"

    as a business owner, he is taking a "salary" and entitle to the "net profit" from his business. since he own the business, making efforts and taking risk for the business.
    and usually the "net profit" is about 20% to 30% of the "gross sale".

    so in another word, photographer (business owner) want to make $1000 "net profit" per month, he need to make a gross sale of $3300 to $5000 per month.
    and if the business is not making profits, he still able to take a salary.
    Agreed totally. My view is exactly the same.

  12. #12

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    I mention about self employed business.

    What you mention is about having a company so your "salary" is not the same as company profit.

    When you do self employment and set up as sole proprietary, the profit is your salary. No?

    It doesn't matter if u pay yourself first or last because at the end in the eye of tax it is still your income if set up as sole proprietor.

    Regards,

    Hart
    It may well seemingly appear the same. But the fundamental difference in structure conditions the person's mind to think like a business person versus a worker.

    I am sure you are a business person.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    just a reminder,

    Please post constructive comments in this section, doing business is dead serious business matter, any irreverent comments will take as off topic post.
    you mean "irrelevant". not irreverent.

    These two are totally different in meaning.

  14. #14

    Default Re: My blog post about business side of photography... read if you are interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB View Post
    It may well seemingly appear the same. But the fundamental difference in structure conditions the person's mind to think like a business person versus a worker.

    I am sure you are a business person.
    Yes, it is different yet the same. Paying yourself a salary is one but getting paid as a whole chunk at the end is the same to me. But in the eyes of tax payable, it is the same if you have a sole proprietorship arrangement.

    Hart

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