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Thread: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

  1. #41
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    You might care for the industry but the industry might not care for you, bear that in mind.

    What I am saying is, no matter what you do for the industry, at the end of the day economic force is going to take it over, it is only the simple matter of decoding the supply and demand. There is no need of defending the industry

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  2. #42
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    let say when you work for a company, don't you think you and you company is having a same goal?
    don't you want your company making profit and grow healthily?
    don't you work hard and anticipate your company reward you for what you have contribution?

    if you are not, maybe is time to look for a new job, or else you have to work miserably in this company.
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  3. #43
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    I think we all should stop defending the photography business, let the market force takes its course. If there is ppl who wants to take this 200 dollars job, let it be. Why are guys be bothered by that? Why do you guys feel the need to regulate it?

    At the end of the day, NONE OF YOU CAN STOP THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE MARKET TO MAKE ITS WAY.



    actually, it is very simply.

    just stop taking up such jobs.


    let me tell you a story,
    the tap and hose of my kitchen basin spoiled, I bought the parts and try to fix it myself, but it only works for a little while, and start leaking again.
    in the end, I have to look for a plumber,
    so I call a company two days ago, and they say the will send a plumber the next day between 12 to 3pm, OK, that is fine.
    yesterday I waited till 2.30 pm, no sign of plumber, I call the company up, they say they will contact him again,
    the plumber shows up at 2.45 pm, he work very fast, 10mins later he already replaced the tap and it working fine.

    I paid him the labour cost, and he left before 3pm.

    than suddenly I realise that he is make more money than most of us here,
    he don't need 10k worth of camera gears, 5k worth of computer hardware and software, working so many hours just to make a few hundreds dollars.
    not forgetting we also need constantly upgrade ourself by attending workshop, seminars, and networking.

    the tools box and the tools he has won't cost more than $200 (I'm a DIY man btw),

    how come there is no free and cheap plumbers?
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  4. #44
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    let me use another example;

    one of you good friend own a camera store,

    one day a customer came in ask ask for a Canon 5DMKIII kit,
    your friend told out the camera and show him,
    he loves the camera but start asking for discount,
    say he has tight budget and can only offer $999.00.
    your friend refuse his offer and think it is crazy,
    but this customer start telling all his grandmother story,
    budget tight lar, money not enough lar, very hard to earn money lar ..... blar blar blar.

    this customer keep pestering your friend his story over and over again,
    after two hours your friend can not tahan any more and sell the Canon 5DMKIII kit to him at $999.00.
    the customer very happy and say your friend store is the best store in town,
    he will recommend everyone he knows to your friend's camera store,

    later that night your friend jio you for beer,
    than he tell you about this customer he had during the day;
    your friend keep drinking beer and KPKB none stop;

    What is your respond to your friend?

    #1, there are many people can only afford that much for a camera, so your friend will have to accept the change.

    #2, you should sell more cameras to make up the lost.

    #3, you stupid fool! who ask you to sell camera at this price? than now come and KPKB now for what??
    Last edited by catchlights; 2nd August 2013 at 02:09 PM.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post

    Not quite sure what this quote has anything to do with the discussion here, but I have a better one here


  6. #46

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    later that night your friend jio you for beer,
    than he tell you about this customer he had during the day;
    your friend keep drinking beer and KPKB none stop;

    What is your respond to your friend?

    #1, there are many people can only afford that much for a camera, so your friend will have to accept the change.

    #2, you should sell more cameras to make up the lost.

    #3, you stupid fool! who ask you to sell camera at this price? than now come and KPKB now for what??
    I'll tell my friend, next time dont jio me if you want to KPKB

    But seriously bro, I'm not taking sides here, I'm not even into photography business. It is just hilarious to see ppl trying to defend an industry. I've heard lots of success stories even from some members here either by hard work or smart work but I have never heard ppl gets their success by defending an industry... The only way out is to innovate and improvise and prob some other way that you guys prob know better than me....

    But there is no way you guys can get success by defending an industry... THAT I KNOW FOR SURE, cause economics force will determine whether an industry will die or rise not you or any other clubsnap members here
    Last edited by Maykind; 2nd August 2013 at 02:24 PM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    actually, it is very simply.

    just stop taking up such jobs.


    You cant tell ppl what to do with their life.

    About the plumber, it is only expensive in Sg, try other countries like Indonesia or Vietnam... Their service is dirt cheap bro... WHY? demand and supply. Supply of plumber here is a lot less than supply of plumbers in Indonesia/Vietnam. It is not about tools but it is about basic economic force.

    That's why I keep saying there is no use of defending what you guys can not defend in the first place, It is bigger than you think it is!!!

  8. #48

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    let me use another example;

    one of you good friend own a camera store,

    one day a customer came in ask ask for a Canon 5DMKIII kit,
    your friend told out the camera and show him,
    he loves the camera but start asking for discount,
    say he has tight budget and can only offer $999.00.
    your friend refuse his offer and think it is crazy,
    but this customer start telling all his grandmother story,
    budget tight lar, money not enough lar, very hard to earn money lar ..... blar blar blar.

    this customer keep pestering your friend his story over and over again,
    after two hours your friend can not tahan any more and sell the Canon 5DMKIII kit to him at $999.00.
    the customer very happy and say your friend store is the best store in town,
    he will recommend everyone he knows to your friend's camera store,

    later that night your friend jio you for beer,
    than he tell you about this customer he had during the day;
    your friend keep drinking beer and KPKB none stop;

    What is your respond to your friend?

    #1, there are many people can only afford that much for a camera, so your friend will have to accept the change.

    #2, you should sell more cameras to make up the lost.

    #3, you stupid fool! who ask you to sell camera at this price? than now come and KPKB now for what??

    After that all the friends from that Happy Customer will come and want to buy 5DmkIII at $999.00. Or Since 5DmkIII @$999, so 700D maybe at $333.00?
    The seller will refused, then will say how come my friend can get that price I can't?

    Then bo pian either keep selling at $999.00, lose money in end close down with debt still need to clear from the lost.
    Or insist can't sell at $999.00 anymore, the unhappy customer's friend go around complain and spreading words the shop is lousy, bad customer service, price very high etc.
    Last edited by huatman; 2nd August 2013 at 02:44 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    You cant tell ppl what to do with their life.

    About the plumber, it is only expensive in Sg, try other countries like Indonesia or Vietnam... Their service is dirt cheap bro... WHY? demand and supply. Supply of plumber here is a lot less than supply of plumbers in Indonesia/Vietnam. It is not about tools but it is about basic economic force.

    That's why I keep saying there is no use of defending what you guys can not defend in the first place, It is bigger than you think it is!!!
    Cost of living is different.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    let say when you work for a company, don't you think you and you company is having a same goal?
    don't you want your company making profit and grow healthily?
    don't you work hard and anticipate your company reward you for what you have contribution?

    if you are not, maybe is time to look for a new job, or else you have to work miserably in this company.
    Are you implying that a company is the same as an industry? seriously? Bro, I want financial market or stock market to go up, up, up everyday lah, if possible I want to work very very hard so that stocks keep going up and never down. Can you do that?

    I dont see a connection here... Working hard got nothing to do with market force going up or down. If by working hard a stock never goes down and only goes up everyday, I also want to invest in that stock

  11. #51

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by huatman View Post
    After that all the friends from that Happy Customer will come and want to buy 5DmkIII at $999.00. Or Since 5DmkIII @$999, so 700D maybe at $333.00?
    The seller will refused, then will say how come my friend can get that price I can't?

    Then bo pian either keep selling at $999.00, lose money in end close down with debt still need to clear from the lost.
    Or insist can't sell at $999.00 anymore, the unhappy customer's friend go around complain and spreading words the shop is lousy, bad customer service, price very high etc.
    Or, the seller gets smart and say no more discount... you and I will never know what's going to happen in future, everything is possible

  12. #52

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by huatman View Post
    Cost of living is different.
    Ppl can always adjust their cost of living. If that photog wants to take 200 job and eat bread everyday. Who r you and I to say he can not do it? It is his right... no need to tell ppl what they can do or can not do.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    Ppl can always adjust their cost of living. If that photog wants to take 200 job and eat bread everyday. Who r you and I to say he can not do it? It is his right... no need to tell ppl what they can do or can not do.
    U can adjust ur spending or what to and not to buy, but adjust the amount cost of those that u need to buy.. ???
    Bread in Singapore is no longer that cheap.

    Yes it his right to charge how much, no law to stop him/her if he can live with that for life and happy with it.
    But if you or the rest, if dun want to protect the industry, at least dun damage it even further. Also can't stop those who depend it for living to continue protecting it.

    Else maybe in future, like many industry that had slowly disappear in Singapore over here..
    Last edited by huatman; 2nd August 2013 at 03:21 PM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by huatman View Post
    U can adjust ur spending or what to and not to buy, but adjust the amount cost of those that u need to buy.. ???
    Bread in Singapore is no longer that cheap.
    Look bro, I'm not taking sides here, and I'm not going into details of what is the price of bread and so on... The thing is you cant move the market.

    The industry is bigger than you, nothing you say here can change it. If there is market for 200 photo session, Nothing you say here can change that. Do you understand what I am saying? Industry and market is govern by economics force, supply and demand, so stop defending it, it is useless

  15. #55

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Due to the perpetual existence of low-ballers and people who undercut the market, clients will almost always manage to find someone cheaper and better in today's world. Of course some will be unlucky and find a cheap and sucky photographer, but don't tell me you pay high price you confirm will get a good one, this is also not true lah. This is not really wrong or a problem, but nature at work. Thus rates will be marginalized to some extent or another, sooner or later.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by huatman View Post
    U can adjust ur spending or what to and not to buy, but adjust the amount cost of those that u need to buy.. ???
    Bread in Singapore is no longer that cheap.

    Yes it his right to charge how much, no law to stop him/her if he can live with that for life and happy with it.
    But if you or the rest, if dun want to protect the industry, at least dun damage it even further. Also can't stop those who depend it for living to continue protecting it.

    Else maybe in future, like many industry that had slowly disappear in Singapore over here..

    Bro... No one can damage an industry, or defend it or save it. It is bigger than any of us. It is the economics force bro... just see how many ppl own DSLR nowadays compare to 1990s, 1980s or 1970s??? Do you see the trend here? can you tell ppl to stop owning a dslr?

  17. #57

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Due to the perpetual existence of low-ballers and people who undercut the market, clients will almost always manage to find someone cheaper and better in today's world. Of course some will be unlucky and find a cheap and sucky photographer, but don't tell me you pay high price you confirm will get a good one, this is also not true lah. This is not really wrong or a problem, but nature at work. Thus rates will be marginalized to some extent or another, sooner or later.
    True, there is a Japanese saying : business is war... ppl will do anything to survive, either by undercut, low ball, improvise, innovate, creative marketing, etc, etc... there are ways to survive in this tough industry which probably you know better than I am, cause I'm not in the industry.

    However, one thing I know for sure, you wont survive by telling other ppl what price to accept and what price not to accept.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by huatman View Post
    After that all the friends from that Happy Customer will come and want to buy 5DmkIII at $999.00. Or Since 5DmkIII @$999, so 700D maybe at $333.00?
    The seller will refused, then will say how come my friend can get that price I can't?

    Then bo pian either keep selling at $999.00, lose money in end close down with debt still need to clear from the lost.
    Or insist can't sell at $999.00 anymore, the unhappy customer's friend go around complain and spreading words the shop is lousy, bad customer service, price very high etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    Or, the seller gets smart and say no more discount... you and I will never know what's going to happen in future, everything is possible

    Is that not the same thing ....

  19. #59

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykind View Post
    Look bro, I'm not taking sides here, and I'm not going into details of what is the price of bread and so on... The thing is you cant move the market.

    The industry is bigger than you, nothing you say here can change it. If there is market for 200 photo session, Nothing you say here can change that. Do you understand what I am saying? Industry and market is govern by economics force, supply and demand, so stop defending it, it is useless
    You are the one who mentioned bread in the first place ...

  20. #60

    Default Re: Another discussion on "requesting for budget photography services"

    Quote Originally Posted by lobsterkia View Post
    Is that not the same thing ....
    Quote Originally Posted by lobsterkia View Post
    You are the one who mentioned bread in the first place ...
    OK......

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