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Thread: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

  1. #1
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    Default Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Good Morning.

    I have a question on upgrading after reading the Sticky thread on camera, the sensor format method by Shahmat.

    Camera : SX 50HS
    Scene : the bridge, about 600m (according to Google Map) opposite Marina Bay Sand (MBS) Hotel
    Time : 9.00pm
    Setting : Nightscene mode
    Lens : 24mm

    Camera was rested on tripod when the shot was taken. No strong wind. Camera was reasonably stable.

    When viewing from the LCD screen, the overall picture was reasonably sharp.
    But when I enlarged to see the hotel rooms, instead of the squarish shapes before enlargement, it was a blur mess or pixelation some would say.

    Likewise if I was at MBS side to take the picture of the office buildings at the opposite bank at 24 mm; everything looked reasonably sharp before enlargement in the LCD screen. When I enlarged, the building names were blurred.

    I assume it was the limitation of the 1/2.3" sensor.

    What will be the minimum sensor size or quality I should look for, if I want to see a reasonable sharpness when I enlarge the image when viewing from the LCD with the above setting?

    For the choice of lens, what kind of lens should I look out for? The aperture smaller than F22?

    I have a limited budget and just started photography this year Feb. Hence I like to read and find out, and hear from experienced photographers before taking the next step.

    Thank You
    EisMann

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    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Can show 100% crop? It's pretty hard to visualize based on just your description and throwing a focal length in the air..

    I don't think DSLR will offer you a lot more detail in terms of resolution assuming low ISO is used. There is going to be an improvement, but I suspect much lesser than you think. The point is, if you zoom in beyond 100%, anything will look pixellated. Because you are looking at pixels?
    Last edited by edutilos-; 29th July 2013 at 10:50 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    1. Try not to shoot above f/8 in this scene.
    2. Use the lowest ISO (100).
    3. Get out of the scene mode and take control.
    Alpha

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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    1. Try not to shoot above f/8 in this scene.
    2. Use the lowest ISO (100).
    3. Get out of the scene mode and take control.
    thanks for the replies.


    Good Afternoon Rashkae,

    When you referred to try not to shoot above f/8, were you refering have a bigger aperture opening? Like f/6.5 f/3.5,...etc?, but with a shorter exposure time say, 6 sec, 1 sec.....etc?

    I only discovered this pixelation issue during enlargement when I took fireworks few weeks back. I set in manual mode. ISO 80. Went for the smallest aperture (for this case f6.5 only). Played with exposure 10 sec, 6 sec & 4 sec. Of course the firework scene mode. The background detail looked blur in the LCD. Of course I could not manually adjust the focusing of SX50HS. Exp it was a night scene, I did not know how to tell the camera to do a 1/3 depth of field focusing.


    Edutilos,

    I know it will be easier to have my shot pasted here to comment. I am still learning to post picture. (that's another thing I have to learn)

    For example.
    You being to Canon showroom in Vivo City? If you were standing at the booth where they keep DSLR for hands on. Take a full shot of their entrance (about 30 m away)

    If you enlarge in the image in the LCD , at the right hand side there is a red poster (smaller than A0 size) 2 or 3 lines about their Canon company statement.
    As Rashkae has suggested, go for manual control instead of scene mode or Auto mode. Is it possible to read the lines? Or my expectation is unrealistic with the current technology?

    When I talked to a camera product specialist about this issue, I was recommended to to upgrade to a pro or at least a semi-pro camera body to meet my requirement. For someone who just started this hobby this year and still don't know how to have a picture composition or lighting control, I don't think I am qualify to carry it, yet.


    Thank You
    EisMann

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post

    thanks for the replies.

    Good Afternoon Rashkae,

    When you referred to try not to shoot above f/8, were you refering have a bigger aperture opening? Like f/6.5 f/3.5,...etc?, but with a shorter exposure time say, 6 sec, 1 sec.....etc?

    I only discovered this pixelation issue during enlargement when I took fireworks few weeks back. I set in manual mode. ISO 80. Went for the smallest aperture (for this case f6.5 only). Played with exposure 10 sec, 6 sec & 4 sec. Of course the firework scene mode. The background detail looked blur in the LCD. Of course I could not manually adjust the focusing of SX50HS. Exp it was a night scene, I did not know how to tell the camera to do a 1/3 depth of field focusing.

    Edutilos,

    I know it will be easier to have my shot pasted here to comment. I am still learning to post picture. (that's another thing I have to learn)

    For example.
    You being to Canon showroom in Vivo City? If you were standing at the booth where they keep DSLR for hands on. Take a full shot of their entrance (about 30 m away)

    If you enlarge in the image in the LCD , at the right hand side there is a red poster (smaller than A0 size) 2 or 3 lines about their Canon company statement.
    As Rashkae has suggested, go for manual control instead of scene mode or Auto mode. Is it possible to read the lines? Or my expectation is unrealistic with the current technology?

    When I talked to a camera product specialist about this issue, I was recommended to to upgrade to a pro or at least a semi-pro camera body to meet my requirement. For someone who just started this hobby this year and still don't know how to have a picture composition or lighting control, I don't think I am qualify to carry it, yet.

    Thank You
    EisMann
    1. He means not to use small apertures beyond f/8, such as f/11 and beyond, because diffraction issues will occur. You also should not use apertures that are too wide, such as f/3.5, as the depth of field may not be sufficient, although in a wide angle perspective, this is less of a problem.

    2. Use the lowest ISO possible for minimal noise.

    3. There is limitation to your sensor, so this may be a case of expecting more than what your camera can deliver.
    KF Photography
    Thanks for viewing!

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    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post
    Good Morning.

    I have a question on upgrading after reading the Sticky thread on camera, the sensor format method by Shahmat.

    Camera : SX 50HS
    Scene : the bridge, about 600m (according to Google Map) opposite Marina Bay Sand (MBS) Hotel
    Time : 9.00pm
    Setting : Nightscene mode
    Lens : 24mm

    Camera was rested on tripod when the shot was taken. No strong wind. Camera was reasonably stable.

    When viewing from the LCD screen, the overall picture was reasonably sharp.
    But when I enlarged to see the hotel rooms, instead of the squarish shapes before enlargement, it was a blur mess or pixelation some would say.

    Likewise if I was at MBS side to take the picture of the office buildings at the opposite bank at 24 mm; everything looked reasonably sharp before enlargement in the LCD screen. When I enlarged, the building names were blurred.

    I assume it was the limitation of the 1/2.3" sensor.

    What will be the minimum sensor size or quality I should look for, if I want to see a reasonable sharpness when I enlarge the image when viewing from the LCD with the above setting?

    For the choice of lens, what kind of lens should I look out for? The aperture smaller than F22?

    I have a limited budget and just started photography this year Feb. Hence I like to read and find out, and hear from experienced photographers before taking the next step.

    Thank You
    EisMann
    If you photographed MBS from across Marina Bay, using effective focal length of 24mm, I presume each hotel room window would look like a dot in your image If you're expecting a helluva lot of detail when you enlarge that 'dot' to something fairly large on your screen, then I feel you're expecting WAY too much.
    If you really want to see the room windows clearly, I suggest taking another photo where you use a much longer focal length (I think yours goes up to 1200mm effective focal length).
    Exploring! :)

  7. #7
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post
    Edutilos,

    I know it will be easier to have my shot pasted here to comment. I am still learning to post picture. (that's another thing I have to learn)
    Sorry, I've been to Canon showroom @ Vivo but I really don't carry a mental picture of such things in my head. As such I do think it's better to post up the picture both resized and 100% crop to give better reference to what you are talking about.

    Read this guide on how to post pictures in CS, cheers: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/artic...ap-forums.html

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    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post
    Good Morning.

    When viewing from the LCD screen, the overall picture was reasonably sharp.
    But when I enlarged to see the hotel rooms, instead of the squarish shapes before enlargement, it was a blur mess or pixelation some would say.

    Likewise if I was at MBS side to take the picture of the office buildings at the opposite bank at 24 mm; everything looked reasonably sharp before enlargement in the LCD screen. When I enlarged, the building names were blurred.
    EisMann
    Now... how did your photo look in your monitor (computer)? You mentioned that you enlarge the photo in your LCD screen (I think that is what you say)... you see that the window are blur... do note that the LCD screen on your camera isn't exactly very high resolution. You need to get your pic in your computer to have a much better determination of the pic's sharpness and the such.

    And... yeah, we would like a photo to actually see what is wrong with your photo, rather than pinpointing the error to the camera or user. To post a photo, do the following,

    Step 1:

    Upload your photo into a hosting site such as flickr

    Step 2:

    Type the following,

    [img]insert the url to your photo[/img]
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  9. #9

    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    its quite hard to fully understand what u described without any pictures shown(before crop and after).
    but i guess it might be noise since u mentioned that your set up is and environment conditions are pretty stable.
    second to noise,it could be the aperture that u used is too narrow at F22. personally i prefer between F8-F13 range.
    and thirdly whats the MP of the camera?
    what ISO were u shooting at?

    but then don't expect Tack sharp image for a wide angle lens when u crop to 100% on those small areas like windows,leaves..etc because landscape images are meant to view as a whole instead of viewing at 100% crop. If the overall image of the landscape looks sharp enough,then it should be fine.
    but if you want to peep into hotel rooms,u really need a telephoto lens.

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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Sorry, I've been to Canon showroom @ Vivo but I really don't carry a mental picture of such things in my head. As such I do think it's better to post up the picture both resized and 100% crop to give better reference to what you are talking about.

    Read this guide on how to post pictures in CS, cheers: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/artic...ap-forums.html
    Morning Edutilos, Rhino123,

    Thanks for the guidelines. Will upload my photos soon after today.
    These few days busy at work. Need to deliver new designed machines by tomorrow.

    Turbonetics,

    You are right. Should manage my expectation on wide angle lens. Maybe watch too much Sci-Fi movies or CSI shows on enlarging/zooming digital images.

    Thank You
    EisMann-

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post

    You are right. Should manage my expectation on wide angle lens. Maybe watch too much Sci-Fi movies or CSI shows on enlarging/zooming digital images.

    Thank You
    EisMann-
    Not just wide angle lenses. Another way of looking at turbonetics explanation.

    Consider a 16M sensor. If the area being zoomed is 1/5,000 of the total area. You effectively have 3000 pixels to paint all the details in the window. 1/5000 is just a 50x100 grid, your window is likely to be even smaller

    3000 pixels is just a 100x30 matrix. You can see why the details are blurry, they're just not there.

  12. #12
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    Quote Originally Posted by EisMann View Post
    Maybe watch too much Sci-Fi movies or CSI shows on enlarging/zooming digital images.

    Thank You
    EisMann-
    CSI one is not enlarge, is enhance. How they can come up with stuff from pixels is always beyond me, don't think it's possible.

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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    [IMG]<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=wlvbky" [/IMG]

    http://<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=wlvbky"

    This is the image. The MBS in the background that got my attention on details.

    I like to thank to all who replied & shared their knowledge.

    Eversince this shot and after reading on the replies and checked on other night photographs, I just concentrate on the main subject and manage my expectation in the background.

    Thank You

  14. #14
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Upgrading (Body, Lens or Sensor?)

    can't see pic.
    if you're using the [img] tags, you have to put the URL of the image between the tags.

    It'll be in the format "http://_______________.jpg"

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