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  1. #21
    Member
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    Talking Re: To All

    hi,
    just sign in ,glad can become one of your member,hope can improve my skill.

  2. #22

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    ClubSnap is where it is today because of all the members, with different backgrounds, ideas and opinions. If we all don't like this place and leave, without the members, what is ClubSnap? Without differences, what good is ClubSnap?

    What the moderator did was done, and probably was the right thing to do for this particular instance. But, I am not in favour of the action.

    I am very troubled with some of the comments, this one in particular, "... It must be pointed out that there are users here who are blatantly go against the grain and the spirit of this forum by choosing to post pointless, sarcastic and un-necessary remarks..."

    Granted to some, the offending remanrks may be pointless, sarcastic and un-necessary, but to whose standard should we judge such remarks. I am extremently uncomfortable when such decisions are made by a few. Besides, one person may find the remarks pointless, sarcastic and un-necessary, while other may look at the whole thing differently.

    What exactly is the grain and spirit of this forum? Are we no longer allow to take a stand against the majority? Must we agree to the masses all the time? Or have to degenerated to a level where only politically correct comments are allowed?

    Btw, we are all adults, we should be able to handle adversities, including the bashing that goes on electronically over the web. So what if the comments offends, we deal with it ourselves. So what if the comment is pointless, we ignore it. So what if the commetn is sarcastic, we can just laugh at it, and there is never an un-necessary comment! We don't need such high handed solutions, we do not need another big brother, nor another nanny!

    The freedom to express, even expressing something that others may not want to hear, may find offensive, and go agains the grain and sprit of the society, is the most fundamental right of a free person. Such rights cannot be eroded a little, by giving up a little, you have essentially surrender your right to be a free person.

    PS. The only time freedom of expression may be curtailed is, I will give an example, you may not cry "Fire" in a crowed theater when there was not a fire.
    While I have always agreed with allowing dissenting views, I do not agree that a minority must be given unequal/disproportionate leeway, especially when its views degenerates into name-calling.

    Moderators/Admins here have the hardest part; not just the time required, but also the maturity to understand and the EQ to accept an acceptable balance, which they choose to allow and defend.

    A thankless task. Great job.

  3. #23

    Default Re: To All

    well said!

  4. #24

    Default Re: To All

    [QUOTE=Deadpoet]The freedom to express, even expressing something that others may not want to hear, may find offensive, and go agains the grain and sprit of the society, is the most fundamental right of a free person. Such rights cannot be eroded a little, by giving up a little, you have essentially surrender your right to be a free person.[QUOTE]

    Agrees....

    Sorry, as a newbie here I am not so sure what are you guys talking about, but it`s good to see people voice out for what they believe is right or wrong... So I would define the "forum" is the place that allow ppl to express their tots in their own way....
    Last edited by Suekay; 19th June 2006 at 12:01 PM.

  5. #25

    Post Re: To All

    Hi Everybody

    Just would like to share some thoughts on this thread and CS in general, so bear with me while I ramble...

    It's been a little over 1.5 years since I registered, and a bit over 2 years since I was first introduced to CS by a colleague of mine. It took me about 6 months to lurk around and to get to understand CS more. I think I've made the right decision in joining up with CS...or did I?

    I have noticed a certain air of elitism creeping into CS about a year ago. This elitism manifests itself in the form of impatient replies in forums ("such a simple thing, you don't even know"), arrogance about one's knowledge/skills ("your shots lack good composition, and I can't stand the halo around the object"), non-sharing of basic information ("oh, I can't tell you the location..you'll have to figure it out yourself) and to even arguments about which brand is better ("XX is better because it has everything you wanted, including a satellite dish!").

    This elitism has brought certain sections of the CS forums into what we can kindly describe as the gutter. And I'm glad the mods realise this and are taking steps to reclaim that back. However, I fear that this might be a bit of a challenge.

    The basic problem is that as we have progressed along, we have forgotten how we first started on this hobby. So now, when newbies come along, we tsk tsk them and shake our heads at their ignorance. This in turns creates a perception that this is really a private place for the know-it-alls, professionals, people with every mother-father lens in the world, those who can afford $500 wireless flash systems, and even commercial entities.

    So what can the mods do? Well for starters, bring the whole CS experience back to it's basic form..which is, by the public for the public. Honestly, I can't really care what some high-brow guy thinks about my composition, lighting or subject matter. Photography is about how one feels at the time of shooting, and not what others think.

    The sheer number of "Subject Matter Experts" (SMEs) in CS on photo composition alone is scary enough to a newbie, who ends up feeling that every shot they take is going to be torn apart by everyone in the forums.

    There is a need for a buddy system in the forum, in which an experienced photog volunteers to take a group of newbies under his/her wing and helps them enjoy their stay in CS.

    I do hope that the moderators would sit down and seriously look at potential ways of helping bring back CS to its heyday again. I know that the mods are volunteers who also have lives to run, but it doesn't hurt to recruit additional capable people to back up the mods.

    So, there you are, my thoughts on the whole CS thingy to date, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how CS will grow in the coming months and years. I'll stick around for the ride...

    My $0.02 worth...with GST of course!

    Regards,
    Clipper

  6. #26
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: To All

    Unfortunately, the life cycle of a forums is like this. Initially when it is first created, there are a lot of newbies, proportionately. At that time, it doesn't seem uncommon to ask new or stupid or beginner questions.

    After a while, these newbies think they have became experts, and when new newbies come along, these "experts" will deride the newbies, and ask them to "do a search" etc etc. The funny thing is that the newbies could be asking the very same questions the experts asked before. But because the experts now know the answer, they think the newbie's questions are stupid questions. Yes, the newbies may not have done a search, or perhaps they have done a search, but failed to locate any useful information, or simply because the search has revealed such a plethora of information that the newbie cannot sift out.

    The funny thing is, if the experts don't feel like helping, they could very well just keep quiet. However, unfortunately, they feel a strong need to deride newbies and hence, the trend, once started, is continued by many others.

  7. #27
    Deregistered
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Planet Nikon
    Posts
    21,905

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by ClipperSG
    Hi Everybody

    Just would like to share some thoughts on this thread and CS in general, so bear with me while I ramble...

    It's been a little over 1.5 years since I registered, and a bit over 2 years since I was first introduced to CS by a colleague of mine. It took me about 6 months to lurk around and to get to understand CS more. I think I've made the right decision in joining up with CS...or did I?

    I have noticed a certain air of elitism creeping into CS about a year ago. This elitism manifests itself in the form of impatient replies in forums ("such a simple thing, you don't even know"), arrogance about one's knowledge/skills ("your shots lack good composition, and I can't stand the halo around the object"), non-sharing of basic information ("oh, I can't tell you the location..you'll have to figure it out yourself) and to even arguments about which brand is better ("XX is better because it has everything you wanted, including a satellite dish!").

    This elitism has brought certain sections of the CS forums into what we can kindly describe as the gutter. And I'm glad the mods realise this and are taking steps to reclaim that back. However, I fear that this might be a bit of a challenge.

    The basic problem is that as we have progressed along, we have forgotten how we first started on this hobby. So now, when newbies come along, we tsk tsk them and shake our heads at their ignorance. This in turns creates a perception that this is really a private place for the know-it-alls, professionals, people with every mother-father lens in the world, those who can afford $500 wireless flash systems, and even commercial entities.

    So what can the mods do? Well for starters, bring the whole CS experience back to it's basic form..which is, by the public for the public. Honestly, I can't really care what some high-brow guy thinks about my composition, lighting or subject matter. Photography is about how one feels at the time of shooting, and not what others think.

    The sheer number of "Subject Matter Experts" (SMEs) in CS on photo composition alone is scary enough to a newbie, who ends up feeling that every shot they take is going to be torn apart by everyone in the forums.

    There is a need for a buddy system in the forum, in which an experienced photog volunteers to take a group of newbies under his/her wing and helps them enjoy their stay in CS.

    I do hope that the moderators would sit down and seriously look at potential ways of helping bring back CS to its heyday again. I know that the mods are volunteers who also have lives to run, but it doesn't hurt to recruit additional capable people to back up the mods.

    So, there you are, my thoughts on the whole CS thingy to date, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how CS will grow in the coming months and years. I'll stick around for the ride...

    My $0.02 worth...with GST of course!

    Regards,
    Clipper

    Hi, you might want to leave the community if you cannot gel in as wolfgang has mentioned.

    Don't flame me, I'm just highlighting his point.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....0&postcount=40

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgang
    This is really simple. You do not like what is happening here, then may i suggest you learn how to use the "Ignore" function. Alternatively, may i suggest you say whatever you wish to say to each other via PM. Why make it drag it out in public and then claim that everyone is being a busybody?

    But if all else fails and you think you really cannot get along with certain people within this community, then i would request that you leave peacefully.


    There is no need to be the first to stir the pot, and then claim to be the victim or have people who are not involved jumping in to defend one party or the other. Let them deal with it themselves. There is also no point in trying to share your 2 cents when you do not understand the background of the entire dispute.

    I have no wish to see anymore of this childish or petty name calling and anyone playing the victim or being the agressor. There is NO place in this forum for such behavoir. It will not be tolerated.

    Last i re-called, this is a photography forum still. Lets move on already.
    Last edited by espn; 24th June 2006 at 11:26 AM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: To All

    Shouldn't you ban people when they start calling others "fool", "pyschotics", "f***heads" and "as******"? Just to name a few..

    If you don't practise what you preach, what's the point of telling us what you preach?

  9. #29

    Default Re: To All

    Oh and "idiots", "insolents"...

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Riddle Realms
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Hi, you might want to leave the community if you cannot gel in as wolfgang has mentioned.

    Don't flame me, I'm just highlighting his point.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....0&postcount=40
    Well done ESPN. You have taken my original point and completely used it for your purpose. Good on you. *Shrugs* No skin off my back i reckon but well, this does really show what kind of a person you are.

    We both know where we stand in such matters Michael. Anyhow, i wish you all the very best in everything else you do away from this forum.

    Goodbye.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  11. #31
    Deregistered
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Planet Nikon
    Posts
    21,905

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang
    Well done ESPN. You have taken my original point and completely used it for your purpose. Good on you. *Shrugs* No skin off my back i reckon but well, this does really show what kind of a person you are.

    We both know where we stand in such matters Michael. Anyhow, i wish you all the very best in everything else you do away from this forum.

    Goodbye.
    I don't think there's a need for me to argue or defend myself regarding to what you think. What sort of person I am, is what sort person I was moulded by you to be.

    Ok, enough, don't OT, anything unsatisfactory, take it with me to PM.

    The same goes for your career and photography. All the best.

    CiaoZ.

  12. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Riddle Realms
    Posts
    5,688

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by ClipperSG
    Hi Everybody

    Just would like to share some thoughts on this thread and CS in general, so bear with me while I ramble...

    It's been a little over 1.5 years since I registered, and a bit over 2 years since I was first introduced to CS by a colleague of mine. It took me about 6 months to lurk around and to get to understand CS more. I think I've made the right decision in joining up with CS...or did I?

    I have noticed a certain air of elitism creeping into CS about a year ago. This elitism manifests itself in the form of impatient replies in forums ("such a simple thing, you don't even know"), arrogance about one's knowledge/skills ("your shots lack good composition, and I can't stand the halo around the object"), non-sharing of basic information ("oh, I can't tell you the location..you'll have to figure it out yourself) and to even arguments about which brand is better ("XX is better because it has everything you wanted, including a satellite dish!").

    This elitism has brought certain sections of the CS forums into what we can kindly describe as the gutter. And I'm glad the mods realise this and are taking steps to reclaim that back. However, I fear that this might be a bit of a challenge.

    The basic problem is that as we have progressed along, we have forgotten how we first started on this hobby. So now, when newbies come along, we tsk tsk them and shake our heads at their ignorance. This in turns creates a perception that this is really a private place for the know-it-alls, professionals, people with every mother-father lens in the world, those who can afford $500 wireless flash systems, and even commercial entities.

    So what can the mods do? Well for starters, bring the whole CS experience back to it's basic form..which is, by the public for the public. Honestly, I can't really care what some high-brow guy thinks about my composition, lighting or subject matter. Photography is about how one feels at the time of shooting, and not what others think.

    The sheer number of "Subject Matter Experts" (SMEs) in CS on photo composition alone is scary enough to a newbie, who ends up feeling that every shot they take is going to be torn apart by everyone in the forums.

    There is a need for a buddy system in the forum, in which an experienced photog volunteers to take a group of newbies under his/her wing and helps them enjoy their stay in CS.

    I do hope that the moderators would sit down and seriously look at potential ways of helping bring back CS to its heyday again. I know that the mods are volunteers who also have lives to run, but it doesn't hurt to recruit additional capable people to back up the mods.

    So, there you are, my thoughts on the whole CS thingy to date, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how CS will grow in the coming months and years. I'll stick around for the ride...

    My $0.02 worth...with GST of course!

    Regards,
    Clipper
    Dear Clipper, we are pleased that you took the effort to share your thought and think of ways to better this forum. For that, I do applaud you. Meanwhile, I do seek everyone's understanding that the majority of the unrest is caused by a small minority and we are trying our best to take corrective measures as well as to persuade everyone to play nice.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  13. #33

    Default Re: To All

    I think hoh... that we cannot stop people from being outspoken leh. All we can do is hope that people (aka The SHEEP) can judge wisely for themselves.

    The SHEEP must understand that almost all leaders are driven by relatively big egos. Even leaders who want to save the world want credit. But often they can mislead others. After all they are human and it's possible that sometimes their intention is selfish, or they are not much wiser than you, no matter how smart they sound.

    I feel that people, especially newbies, should be more individual and be independent thinkers. So that even if 'leader' says something the SHEEP wont be led astray. Good examples not to follow include suicide bombers and their terrorist leaders

    Moral of the story:
    Don't give anyone the power to mislead by being their devoted follower or supporter
    In short, don't be a dog.
    Last edited by benedium; 24th June 2006 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: To All

    So I guess calling someone a "F***head" is alright with the admin? Since I got no reply. Well done.

  15. #35
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Melbourne
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    8,517
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    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by teckyy
    So I guess calling someone a "F***head" is alright with the admin? Since I got no reply. Well done.
    Can you point us to where this remark was made and in what context?

    We are not psychics and cannot humanly trawl the 5000 or so posts that are made in the forums every day, so some assistance here would be much appreciated.

    Please PM me if you find it inconvenient to post it here.

  16. #36

    Default Re: To All

    So I guess calling someone a "F***head" is alright with the admin, since I got no reply?

  17. #37

    Default Re: To All

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren
    Can you point us to where this remark was made and in what context?

    We are not psychics and cannot humanly trawl the 5000 or so posts that are made in the forums every day, so some assistance here would be much appreciated.

    Please PM me if you find it inconvenient to post it here.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...32#post2242632

    Post #17...."a*****e" was used.

    let me check the others..

  18. #38
    Senior Member Zeckson Chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Currently in Singapore
    Posts
    6,257

    Default Re: To All

    Hello Darren,

    Just look at how I was replied by some members in the forum on the Bernice threads recently in Portraits. I was called names and names. Hope can direct you to the source.
    Speaking of ART is USELESS if one cannot FEEL anything.
    My Photo Albums

  19. #39

    Default Re: To All

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...15#post2179715

    post #21...calling someone an "a**" and inferring others have no brains.(insults no?)

  20. #40

    Default Re: To All

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...81#post2222981

    post #114...self explanatory. I do not understand how one can resort to such behaviour over a topic on zone system.

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