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Thread: Lost between choices...Nikon and Canon

  1. #1
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    Smile Lost between choices...Nikon and Canon

    Hi,

    I have been reading this forum for sometime and have decided to get a DSLR camera. I have a budget between $5-6K trying to decide between the Canon EOS20D and the Nikon D70s.

    The more recommendations I get to read, the more difficult the decision becomes. I am hoping to join the right camp from the start considering the large investments that I am going to put into the lens later. Specs wise, I like the Nikkor lens but prefer the Canon body. How nice it would be to be able to use Nikkor lens on the 20D. Just my wishful thinking to have the best of both world. Not to meant that Canon does not produce good lens (I know about the L Lens) but just my personal preference for Nikkor lens.

    I am really lost for choice. For information, I travel alot and loves taking scenery pictures of landscapes and buildings. I prefer wide lens to cover as much ground as possible. I would also prefer fast lens to mimise the startling effect via the use of flash.

    I believe that some experts in this forum has also faced this problem before. It would help me if you can relate your experience for your decision. I do not mean for this thread to end up in flames. Hope to hear some of your good personal experiences if you too were at the similiar cross road as I do now.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenth
    Hi,

    I have been reading this forum for sometime and have decided to get a DSLR camera. I have a budget between $5-6K trying to decide between the Canon EOS20D and the Nikon D70s.

    The more recommendations I get to read, the more difficult the decision becomes. I am hoping to join the right camp from the start considering the large investments that I am going to put into the lens later. Specs wise, I like the Nikkor lens but prefer the Canon body. How nice it would be to be able to use Nikkor lens on the 20D. Just my wishful thinking to have the best of both world. Not to meant that Canon does not produce good lens (I know about the L Lens) but just my personal preference for Nikkor lens.

    I am really lost for choice. For information, I travel alot and loves taking scenery pictures of landscapes and buildings. I prefer wide lens to cover as much ground as possible. I would also prefer fast lens to mimise the startling effect via the use of flash.

    I believe that some experts in this forum has also faced this problem before. It would help me if you can relate your experience for your decision. I do not mean for this thread to end up in flames. Hope to hear some of your good personal experiences if you too were at the similiar cross road as I do now.

    Mike
    Whichever camp you end up, I'm 101% sure that you'll be satisfied with the brand you lie with. Look at either camera body and see how you like the feel and the workings of the camera. Ask yourself if it suits you and how it feels in your hands. Does the camera feel comfortable in your hands and whilst shooting? Either brands make superb lenses and there's really no difference between them, because its the end that counts. I initially had this problem but went for a Canon 300D. Now an owner of a 1DMKII and I'm not regretting my decision. I'm sure I wouldn't have regretted if I also went for the Nikon system.

    If you shoot landscapes and buildings mainly, I think you might want to get a wide-angle prime (17mm to around 24mm) and stop down the lens to get more DOF.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    The equipment can only bring you so far - the rest of the photographic journey is done by you.

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    I have read magazines that Nikon cameras are well known for its sharpness so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwayschampion
    I have read magazines that Nikon cameras are well known for its sharpness so far.
    Nikon cameras come with better lenses those are usually Japan Made. Canon lenses are China made and their quality is quite poor. (canon bodies are made in japan though.)
    My Gallery at DeviantART http://waiaung.deviantart.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by waiaung
    Nikon cameras come with better lenses those are usually Japan Made. Canon lenses are China made and their quality is quite poor. (canon bodies are made in japan though.)
    Honestly, that's not exactly true anymore. Both Nikon and Canon have lenses made in and outside Japan. The usual complaint is that kit lenses from Canon are a bit soft, but there's a difference in price point between what you pay for the different kits as well as the features on the camera.

    Just get a brand which you are comfortable with, meaning, the price, the feel, the looks etc etc. No point trying to compare which brand is better. It's pretty pointless unless there are differences in features that you know you will die for.

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    there are no lousy camera...but lazy photographer, so go to your favourite store to get a hands on and play around to see which model you are comfortable with (eg. menu, control, speed, design)

    both nikon and canon got wide range of DSLR models from entry level to pro level for you to choose from (correction...canon got more choices). Lenses wise, both brand also got anything from 10mm to 600mm and specialised lenses like Tilt-Shift and macro

    You mention that you travel a lot, do u want a small and light DSLR or doesn't mine the weight but want a solid body that can withstand fair amount of rain and shock?

    Nikon DSLRs have crop factor of 1.5x to 2x, so your 20mm lens will become 32mm or 40mm respectively...so your wide angle lenses may not look as wide and ultra wide angle lenses like 10-22mm has slower f-stop and more distortion.

    On the other hand, Canon DSLR has crop factor of 1x (1Ds, 1Ds MKII), 1.3x (1D, 1D MKII) and 1.6x (10D, 20D, 300D, 350D..etc). If you are into landscape probably you want want to get 1Ds or 1D that has smaller crop factor and most importantly, a bigger viewfinder for you to see.

    Instead of faster lens, may be you can consider one with better noise control so that you can push the ISO higher without degrading the image quality. For this area, IMO Canon is better.
    Last edited by Wai; 24th April 2005 at 03:22 AM.
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    if you don't need wireless off shoe flash system.. then go for 20D

    the only advantage D70 has over 20D is the built in offshoe flash system (creative lighting system, CLS they call it)

    I've used both a fair bit and here are my comments:

    20D
    vertical grip option, metal body, weather proof, low noise CMOS sensor, many focusing areas (most likely to hit one point)

    D70
    wireless flash system (CLS), spot metering, cheap, light,

    actually I've always wanted to get 20D but didn't have enough money, so i went ahead to buy a D70.. performance wise it does it's job pretty well... light and good for walk around shoots.
    Last edited by yanyewkay; 24th April 2005 at 03:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    D70
    wireless flash system (CLS), spot metering, cheap, light,
    he shoot landscape, multiple flash and spot metering no use to him leh

    Canon also got wireless flash system mah, just need to mount a 550EX or ST-E2 wireless slave trigger
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    budget $5-6K.. get 20D with 17-40L
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    Canon also got wireless flash system mah, just need to mount a 550EX or ST-E2 wireless slave trigger
    A 5-year old SB28DX can do that. If you think that is all that CLS can do, you should go for a demo of the CLS...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai
    both nikon and canon got wide range of DSLR models from entry level to pro level for you to choose from (correction...canon got more choices). Lenses wise, both brand also got anything from 10mm to 600mm and specialised lenses like Tilt-Shift and macro

    You mention that you travel a lot, do u want a small and light DSLR or doesn't mine the weight but want a solid body that can withstand fair amount of rain and shock?

    Nikon DSLRs have crop factor of 1.5x to 2x, so your 20mm lens will become 32mm or 40mm respectively...so your wide angle lenses may not look as wide and ultra wide angle lenses like 10-22mm has slower f-stop and more distortion.

    On the other hand, Canon DSLR has crop factor of 1x (1Ds, 1Ds MKII), 1.3x (1D, 1D MKII) and 1.6x (10D, 20D, 300D, 350D..etc). If you are into landscape probably you want want to get 1Ds or 1D that has smaller crop factor and most importantly, a bigger viewfinder for you to see.
    Actually, the 1x crop cameras perform worse in wide angle than the 1.5x crop. Why? Because of light fall off at the corners. That is why many pros who had spend >S$10k on these very expensive 1x crop cameras resort to Carl Zeiss lenses to do wide angle shots without significant light fall off. This is done using adapters that allow the hookup of these lenses to bodies but reduces the bodies into manual focus and metering.

    If you want to see the difference, follow this link where the reviewer used wide angle lenses on the top of the line bodies and the best wide angle that both brands can offer at the same. The reviewer shoots snow. See the dark corners of the Canon camera?
    Instead of faster lens, may be you can consider one with better noise control so that you can push the ISO higher without degrading the image quality. For this area, IMO Canon is better.
    Landscape... Hmmm, ISO not needed high in the first place. So there is no issue here. I wonder do people use Velvia 800 or whether it is manufactured in the first place
    Last edited by Watcher; 24th April 2005 at 09:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    budget $5-6K.. get 20D with 17-40L
    Budget 5-6k? get D70s + 17-35 AF-S The 17-40L is a f/4, the 17-35 is a f/2.8 lens
    Last edited by Watcher; 24th April 2005 at 10:03 AM. Reason: minor update

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    Oh talking about shooting wide angle, the following shot can be taken with equipment <$3k yesterday



    It was taken using a fisheye lens that covers the diagonal of 180 degrees. There is no digital fisheye for other digital bodies at the moment.
    Last edited by Watcher; 24th April 2005 at 10:00 AM. Reason: minor correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenth
    Hi,

    I have been reading this forum for sometime and have decided to get a DSLR camera. I have a budget between $5-6K trying to decide between the Canon EOS20D and the Nikon D70s.

    The more recommendations I get to read, the more difficult the decision becomes. I am hoping to join the right camp from the start considering the large investments that I am going to put into the lens later. Specs wise, I like the Nikkor lens but prefer the Canon body. How nice it would be to be able to use Nikkor lens on the 20D. Just my wishful thinking to have the best of both world. Not to meant that Canon does not produce good lens (I know about the L Lens) but just my personal preference for Nikkor lens.

    I am really lost for choice. For information, I travel alot and loves taking scenery pictures of landscapes and buildings. I prefer wide lens to cover as much ground as possible. I would also prefer fast lens to mimise the startling effect via the use of flash.

    I believe that some experts in this forum has also faced this problem before. It would help me if you can relate your experience for your decision. I do not mean for this thread to end up in flames. Hope to hear some of your good personal experiences if you too were at the similiar cross road as I do now.

    Mike
    what ever brand u choose, one HINT : try to buy the best lens rather than get a good body with slow lenses...cheers... with 5 to 6k, aim for the best lens which u really need first..

    Take both its legs down first, then cuts its tail, next is shoot between its eyes:devil:

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    If you prefer the lenses of one brand, then I'd go with that brand. Very good lenses are a longer term 'investment'. DSLR bodies come and go and each year or so there will be new ones coming along. One brand might have the upper hand with a better spec body at one point in time - but another brand usually will come along with a better one sooner or later and the cycle continues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Actually, the 1x crop cameras perform worse in wide angle than the 1.5x crop. Why? Because of light fall off at the corners. That is why many pros who had spend >S$10k on these very expensive 1x crop cameras resort to Carl Zeiss lenses to do wide angle shots without significant light fall off. This is done using adapters that allow the hookup of these lenses to bodies but reduces the bodies into manual focus and metering.

    If you want to see the difference, follow this link where the reviewer used wide angle lenses on the top of the line bodies and the best wide angle that both brands can offer at the same. The reviewer shoots snow. See the dark corners of the Canon camera?

    Landscape... Hmmm, ISO not needed high in the first place. So there is no issue here. I wonder do people use Velvia 800 or whether it is manufactured in the first place
    Well, light fall off is resolved by stopping down the lens. Usually landscapes are taken at around f8 so light fall off would be resolved by then. Besides, I don't think many people would shoot landscapes with their lenses wide open, right?
    The equipment can only bring you so far - the rest of the photographic journey is done by you.

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    i'd agree with a lot of them that you should get good lenses rather than spend all your money on an expensive body right now and be stuck with slow lenses bodies can be changed/upgraded... lenses on the otherhand, can cost more than a camera body, and they can last a lifetime without upgrading
    Budget wedding photographer :)

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    Smile Thank you.

    Thank you for all the replies. I will take your advice and go test out the camera systems when I go back home in May for a break. I notice that the Nikon lens cost more than the Canon counterparts for their range of lens with max 2.8f lens. Any comments on that? Is there any good shops in Singapore that is strong with the Nikon/Canon brand to draw my final conclusion as to which camp to join?

    I am currently in an exotic country in Middle East and thus hope to take some of the good scenic spots for rememberance. This place has one of the best mountain ranges with lots of desert and thus is sandy most of the time. Hence sand dust is a problem for me but camera system which are environment sealed are way over my budget. I was thinking of getting a cheap body and environment sealed lens. I understand that dust has been a major problem for DSLR. How do you guys overcome this problem?

    I used to take my photographs on my Minolta X300 and currently using those Sony P&S digital camera. Unfortunately, my cameras are not wide enough to capture the the vast landscape here. I read that wide lens are prone to distortions and have seen some distorted samples taken with the Canon 10-22 lens. Are distortions a norm for wide lens?

    Canon seems to have the widest lens in their stock list but the make of the lens does not seem to be a quality build. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Given this input on environment factor, any expert out there had the experience of taking pictures in sandy desert conditions with their equipments survived the ordeal?

    Once again, thank you for all the advices given and I am happy that we have such good support from this interest group. It reminds me of the community spirits of old times. Hope that we can meet someday in Singapore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickmak
    Well, light fall off is resolved by stopping down the lens. Usually landscapes are taken at around f8 so light fall off would be resolved by then. Besides, I don't think many people would shoot landscapes with their lenses wide open, right?
    Depends on scenario, there were 1-2 times I had to use WA at f/2.8.

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    i shoot at the widest sometimes when light is no good and i dun have my tripod..

    better than no picture at all..

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