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Thread: LTA seeking feedback on COE

  1. #121

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    That idea has been tried and abandoned. Those were the days of low COE when the government decided to increase quotas and build more gantries, night ERP etc. End up, the psychology was "heck, buy already don't use meh?"
    not really. i use the cte every morning. if you drive at 730 to 8am everyday when the erp is high, traffic is smooth. not possible without erp.

    what makes you say erp is not working

  2. #122
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dniwkh View Post
    not really. i use the cte every morning. if you drive at 730 to 8am everyday when the erp is high, traffic is smooth. not possible without erp. what makes you say erp is not working
    Reducing jam on a few selected road is not the same as controlling usage and jam everywhere. Right now you can circumvent the ERP by using the other roads, but if everywhere ERP things will be different.

  3. #123
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dniwkh View Post
    frankly at this age, are there anything you really need. do you need a tv at home? what if a tv cost 100k? is that also acceptable? people have certain standards of living which they aspire to. ultimately it is the government's job to keep people happy so they can win elections. for me, a car is essential to my lifestyle. if it remains so expensive.... i guess maybe others can do a better job and i am not alone. if you take the number of vehicles on the road, you can tell that a lot of singaporean households own a car. it is part of our living expenses. telling all these families with cars to switch to public transport.....
    Please let me clarify, I am Not against CSR ownership. You can buy as many as you like but of course there is a price to pay. Just like any other items, such as house, watches, etc. when demand exceed supply, this our case is the limited land mass, then pricing has to comes in. There is no magic show to change this.

    Unlike other commodities, you need transportation and home. That is why the government duty is to provide essential needs for the average citizens to function. If public transport is world class, then the more reasons people don't need cars. Cars are for those who really need to spend that money, so what is $100k more. Haha

  4. #124

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    There is fundamentally nothing wrong to use $ to control ownership of cars for Singapore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This IS the fundamental flaw of the system. It creates a social barrier based on available money. It's financial discrimination. That's the point half Singapore is complaining about: the freaking amount of money that has to be paid
    I totally agree with you. Something is very wrong in a country when the best-selling cars are BMWs and Mercedes. Imagine a country when the best selling homes are bungalows and luxury apartments, such a society would have excluded the poor.

  5. #125

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    My thinking is, if they can come up with a system to ballot for HDB, why can't they have a similar system to ballot for cars?

    But it will never happen. $$$$
    "Good Idea". I will get my Ah Kong Ah Ma and all my family members to queue for the balloting. If I get one COE from the balloting, I will offer it in car forum and CS forum for bidding. Bidding base price begin from $50,000. CS member enjoy 20% off from the successful bid. Now money goes into my pocket instead of LTA. LOL

  6. #126

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    ERP reduces usage on the targeted road by raising private costs. however ErP is not efficient in the economic sense.

    road users avoiding ErP roads incur fuel cost increases whereas road users using ERP roads incur cash payment. either way it becomes more expensive to drive anywhere.

    the only benefiting party is LTA... collecting their enormous revenues. did you know LTA had 30 year bonds issued yielding 5% PA ? outrageously high considering it's AAA grade. who's paying? road users!
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  7. #127

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    I totally agree with you. Something is very wrong in a country when the best-selling cars are BMWs and Mercedes. Imagine a country when the best selling homes are bungalows and luxury apartments, such a society would have excluded the poor.
    Does this show that most Singaporeans are affluent? Otherwise who are these car and home buyers?

  8. #128

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    Does this show that most Singaporeans are affluent? Otherwise who are these car and home buyers?
    cough cough. there are always affluent foreigners who are more than welcome to settle down here. some crashed their expensive Ferrari killing innocent hard working taxi driver, others insulting public transport commuters as odious... the rest just merely buying up resources like land and vehicles
    宁愿遇见丢失幼崽的母熊,也不愿碰上做蠢事的愚人

  9. #129

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Shizuma View Post
    cough cough. there are always affluent foreigners who are more than welcome to settle down here. some crashed their expensive Ferrari killing innocent hard working taxi driver, others insulting public transport commuters as odious... the rest just merely buying up resources like land and vehicles
    Just because of these incidents like 2 of examples quoted by you, it does not mean that most of these luxury cars and houses are bought by foreigners. Many of us are under the impression that only the foreigners could afford such items. Look at how many luxury cars and houses on the street, they can't be all bought by foreigners. The large percentage of these owners are local Singaporeans.

  10. #130

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
    Does this show that most Singaporeans are affluent? Otherwise who are these car and home buyers?
    While there are many affluent people here, there will be much more middle class and poor people. This country is taken away from them as they are forced into smaller spaces and away from private transportation.

  11. #131
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    And we all know that just 1% controls half of the world's global wealth, income inequality is not just an issue here in the Republic of Singapore.

    178 Oxfam Briefing Paper (2014-01-20)
    Working For The Few: Political Capture & Economic Inequality
    CS Aviation / Flickr
    Per aspera ad astra

  12. #132

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by An drew View Post
    While there are many affluent people here, there will be much more middle class and poor people. This country is taken away from them as they are forced into smaller spaces and away from private transportation.
    If you look at the 80k COE. A lot of them are middle class buyers. Just look around your office lah. The point is that to a lot of Singaporeans, cars are really important and they are willing to pay $80k for COE. Can they afford $80k COE? Yes but it is going to lower the quality of life for them because so much of their income is channeled to paying for the car.

    You can argue that they should take public transport instead but to them, that is the worse of the two choices. Basically, Singaporeans are left with all lousy choices.... Save up more of your limited income and pay for the COE or give up the car and join the public transport.

    I don't believe that there is no good way around current high COE prices because LTA basically has not done anything. Below are the suggestions given up during the last year's consultation.

    1) Change COE to pay as you bid, closed auction system. Now people pay the lowest successful bid. Favours people with deep pockets as there is nothing to stop people to overbid as they always pay the lowest bid.

    2) Remove dealer bidding. Car owners has been asking this for YEARS and YEARS. LTA says there is a "choice" and you can bid yourself. During the feedback session, the officer was surprised to know that the cars price will be higher from the dealers if we bring our own COE. They thought it will be lower because the dealers don't have to do the bidding (less work for dealers). That is how detached LTA is from the ground. Of all the suggestions, this one should have been done long ago as there is just no good reason NOT to implement it. Almost ALL the car buyers WANT this suggestion. The dealers themselves "say" they are ok with it as they don't "profit" from COE swings.So what is stopping LTA from implementing this??????

    3) Add a COE category that pays 10x or 20x ERP. Basically a car that should not be driven during peak at expressways. That gives an option for Families with old people or young children who need transportation in their neighbourhood during off peak.


    Is is not that there is no good ideas, just LTA chose the easy way out.... which is basically do nothing.
    Last edited by dniwkh; 23rd March 2014 at 07:54 AM.

  13. #133

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    And we all know that just 1% controls half of the world's global wealth, income inequality is not just an issue here in the Republic of Singapore.

    178 Oxfam Briefing Paper (2014-01-20)
    Working For The Few: Political Capture & Economic Inequality
    Our policies must protect the common people.

    Quote Originally Posted by dniwkh View Post
    Is is not that there is no good ideas, just LTA chose the easy way out.... which is basically do nothing.
    Very well said! Sadly, if they don't lose money or votes they would not bother with any real change.

  14. #134
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by dniwkh View Post
    no offense but this is a really stupid idea. if u implement that how r u going to price the coe??? 10k?? the next day, every uncle and auntie will be in the queue. in the end, the people who needs the car will never get it. those early in the queue will strike lottery
    Read again, where did I say that the COE has any price? Yes, every uncle, auntie and Ah Beng can queue up and has to queue up. Regardless how much cash they have.
    So before you call something stupid show that you understood it.
    EOS

  15. #135
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by tmwong90 View Post
    "Good Idea". I will get my Ah Kong Ah Ma and all my family members to queue for the balloting. If I get one COE from the balloting, I will offer it in car forum and CS forum for bidding. Bidding base price begin from $50,000. CS member enjoy 20% off from the successful bid. Now money goes into my pocket instead of LTA. LOL
    Well, similar to houses: resell ban will be implemented
    Another positive side effect of this could be: car sharing. It works so well in many other countries, only people here must have their own car, own seat ..
    1994 I have seen car sharing already in Germany with 3 people from the same village and working in the same location took turns in driving. They reduced the annual mileage for their cars and two of them could have a nap on the 1h drive to work. Seems Singapore needs to reinvent the wheel again ..
    EOS

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post

    That idea has been tried and abandoned. Those were the days of low COE when the government decided to increase quotas and build more gantries, night ERP etc. End up, the psychology was "heck, buy already don't use meh?"
    You're mistaken or did not understand what I said. There has never been an LTA Levy on petrol. I am suggesting that the Levy be actively used as a usage control method in place of the Quota System. Do you know how much money all the intermediaries are milking and getting fat from the system? And it's the motorists who are paying all the extras e.g. loan interests, dealers' margins and commissions etc. During the low COE days when Govt increased quota, the usage measures were not effective as yet. Even today, it still needs improvement.
    If people are not happy with high COE, put a cap on it with higher usage controls or scrap the Quota System with full usage controls.

  17. #137
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Another positive side effect of this could be: car sharing. It works so well in many other countries, only people here must have their own car, own seat ..

    1994 I have seen car sharing already in Germany with 3 people from the same village and working in the same location took turns in driving. They reduced the annual mileage for their cars and two of them could have a nap on the 1h drive to work. Seems Singapore needs to reinvent the wheel again ..
    Many Singaporeans attend to their private vehicles as a holy shrine, one slight touch leaving behind a thumbprint on their weekly hundred dollars polished surface and they go into a hissy fit.
    CS Aviation / Flickr
    Per aspera ad astra

  18. #138

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    That's because the car is so expensive!! It's the 2nd most expensive item after a HDB.
    Canon 30D, G11, 50 f1.8II, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f2.8L IS, EX580II

  19. #139

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Read again, where did I say that the COE has any price? Yes, every uncle, auntie and Ah Beng can queue up and has to queue up. Regardless how much cash they have.
    So before you call something stupid show that you understood it.
    so u expect the coe to be free... and by a first come first serve basis...

    you are right. i did not understand your idea. or rather i underestimated its stup.....

    there isnt much to discuss if you actually think that is a good idea.

  20. #140

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by dniwkh View Post
    If you look at the 80k COE. A lot of them are middle class buyers. Just look around your office lah. The point is that to a lot of Singaporeans, cars are really important and they are willing to pay $80k for COE. Can they afford $80k COE? Yes but it is going to lower the quality of life for them because so much of their income is channeled to paying for the car.

    You can argue that they should take public transport instead but to them, that is the worse of the two choices. Basically, Singaporeans are left with all lousy choices.... Save up more of your limited income and pay for the COE or give up the car and join the public transport.
    Yes, these are the average Joes who still buying cars despite high COE. That could be one of the reasons why our government is still milking a lot from COE because we can't boycott it totally.

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