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Thread: LTA seeking feedback on COE

  1. #101

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Well, if the complain is about COE, then the ones technically profiteering from it is the people of Singapore coz that money goes into our national coffer.
    Ha ha ha

  2. #102
    Member Bukitimah's Avatar
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    Nothing so confusing. One of our main resources is from the citizens. Just look at the amount of money paid for HDB, our biggest developer. Haha.

  3. #103
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Nothing so confusing. One of our main resources is from the citizens. Just look at the amount of money paid for HDB, our biggest developer. Haha.
    MBT once said that the government is the custodian of the people's resources, and it is their duty to maximize returns on those resources.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    MBT once said that the government is the custodian of the people's resources, and it is their duty to maximize returns on those resources.
    In other words: if gambling habits cannot be removed from the people then remove the money from the people
    EOS

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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Then when people get married or have a kid they will scream for a discount.

    The whole point of COE is to limit the number of cars on the roads.
    Limit the number of cars? Well, pardon me, but this is the biggest BS, IMHO.

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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    owning a car in HK or Japan is actually very very cheap....

    But if you hang out in downtown (Central or Kowloon in HK and Shinjuku or Ropponggi in Tokyo) in these major cities ..... TAKE AWAY the Buses, Public Transport, Taxis, Vans, Trucks and Lorrys.... you realize that there are actually VERY FEW private cars ...

    Even in Sydney..... after I had to use my credit card to pay for barely 4hrs of parking, I stopped driving into Martin Place/Bond Street area
    Think this a good idea. And a better and fairer way of deterrence

  7. #107
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2xpeter View Post
    Think this a good idea. And a better and fairer way of deterrence
    50cent increase in ERP already gets them hell. You want to raise parking to NYC or Sydney level?

    When MBT was transport minister (iirc), he pushed forward the "allow car ownership, but penalize usage" policy. Numbers of COE were increased but more ERP gantries and at higher rates were put up. Well, it failed. Car own ship increased for sure, but car usage did not get significantly curbed. Why? If I am to pay so much for a car in the first place, heck I am going to use it (of course, avoiding ERP as much as possible). There is some rumor that with GPS-based ERP that can charge every km you drive, they may try this again.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 25th February 2014 at 07:57 AM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2xpeter View Post

    Limit the number of cars? Well, pardon me, but this is the biggest BS, IMHO.
    Pardon me, have you parked your common sense in the pawn shop?
    EOS

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by d2xpeter View Post
    Think this a good idea. And a better and fairer way of deterrence
    Not entirely unworkable. It's just a matter of will to implement or political price willing to be staked.

    Imagine carpark gantries charging $20 per exit on top of parking time charges. Each erp gantry is $10.

    Let's see how many stay on the road or get bought since staying off the road has a running cost, abielt lower.

  10. #110

  11. #111

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    Honestly guys, you cannot compare singapore with big countries.

    There must be a form of control on the no. of vehicles on the road.

    I read that the poor do need their own form of transport as much as anyone else in ST forum.

    How do we actually determine that? Who doesn't have age parents or toddlers at some stage of their lives.

    LTA is seeking you opinion, come on give it to them if you think you can better them.

    I'm a pro gov, just my take on this.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Wolf View Post
    Honestly guys, you cannot compare singapore with big countries. There must be a form of control on the no. of vehicles on the road. I read that the poor do need their own form of transport as much as anyone else in ST forum. How do we actually determine that? Who doesn't have age parents or toddlers at some stage of their lives. LTA is seeking you opinion, come on give it to them if you think you can better them. I'm a pro gov, just my take on this.
    There is fundamentally nothing wrong to use $ to control ownership of cars for Singapore. But public transport must match what we claimed to be 1st world standard AND not cost too much that the average guys cannot afford. LTA has never been interested in feedback that they cannot makes money, that is the problem. They are a corporation and runs like one. If we aren't there, then don't claim to be one (1st world). Our leaders must accept they are no CEO of the best and therefore need to review their salary.

    Nobody is complaining across Malaysia about car ownership because they aren't 1st world. In any corporate world, you don't deliver, you are ???

  13. #113

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by White Wolf View Post
    Honestly guys, you cannot compare singapore with big countries.

    There must be a form of control on the no. of vehicles on the road.

    I read that the poor do need their own form of transport as much as anyone else in ST forum.

    How do we actually determine that? Who doesn't have age parents or toddlers at some stage of their lives.

    LTA is seeking you opinion, come on give it to them if you think you can better them.

    I'm a pro gov, just my take on this.
    l submitted an online feedback last year. lta actually called me down for face to face discussion.... but after so many discussion, what did lta do??? tie cat a coe to engine power.... just plain useless and waste of time. so many good suggestions lta just ignore.

    a lot of car owners is pushing for a pay as you bid, closed auction system. i actually read up a little on action theory and i think that is not such a bad idea
    Last edited by dniwkh; 22nd March 2014 at 01:06 PM.

  14. #114
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    There is fundamentally nothing wrong to use $ to control ownership of cars for Singapore.
    This IS the fundamental flaw of the system. It creates a social barrier based on available money. It's financial discrimination. That's the point half Singapore is complaining about: the freaking amount of money that has to be paid!
    Create a simple queue system, first come - first served. The rich Ferrari owner-to-be needs to wait in the same way as daddy getting the KIA for the growing family. If the maximum numbers of cars has reached, the queue stops and everybody has to wait. No exception, no favors. This way, people will come back to selecting a car purely on its price and usability, not a twisted and distorted system that makes the car price looking small. Increase taxes on fuel by another 50%. This way, cheap and small cars with low fuel consumption will likely get the necessary attention. And there are more things to be done, not just this silly tinkering about COE ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Nobody is complaining across Malaysia about car ownership because they aren't 1st world. In any corporate world, you don't deliver, you are ???
    Have you spotted any bus in the villages outside big cities? Is there a wide network of train connections? It's not about 1st or 3rd world, it's about the detiled conditions in each country.
    Last edited by Octarine; 22nd March 2014 at 01:07 PM.
    EOS

  15. #115

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This IS the fundamental flaw of the system. It creates a social barrier based on available money. It's financial discrimination. That's the point half Singapore is complaining about: the freaking amount of money that has to be paid!
    Create a simple queue system, first come - first served. The rich Ferrari owner-to-be needs to wait in the same way as daddy getting the KIA for the growing family. If the maximum numbers of cars has reached, the queue stops and everybody has to wait. No exception, no favors. This way, people will come back to selecting a car purely on its price and usability, not a twisted and distorted system that makes the car price looking small. Increase taxes on fuel by another 50%. This way, cheap and small cars with low fuel consumption will likely get the necessary attention. And there are more things to be done, not just this silly tinkering about COE ..
    no offense but this is a really stupid idea. if u implement that how r u going to price the coe??? 10k?? the next day, every uncle and auntie will be in the queue. in the end, the people who needs the car will never get it. those early in the queue will strike lottery
    Last edited by dniwkh; 22nd March 2014 at 01:12 PM.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    This IS the fundamental flaw of the system. It creates a social barrier based on available money. It's financial discrimination. That's the point half Singapore is complaining about: the freaking amount of money that has to be paid! Create a simple queue system, first come - first served. The rich Ferrari owner-to-be needs to wait in the same way as daddy getting the KIA for the growing family. If the maximum numbers of cars has reached, the queue stops and everybody has to wait. No exception, no favors. This way, people will come back to selecting a car purely on its price and usability, not a twisted and distorted system that makes the car price looking small. Increase taxes on fuel by another 50%. This way, cheap and small cars with low fuel consumption will likely get the necessary attention. And there are more things to be done, not just this silly tinkering about COE .. Have you spotted any bus in the villages outside big cities? Is there a wide network of train connections? It's not about 1st or 3rd world, it's about the detiled conditions in each country.
    Unfortunately, this is a true situation but nobody says you need to own a car. There is always public transport available.

    Malaysia didn't claim to be 1st world and you don't get buses to the villages. Remember, we are 1st world country.

  17. #117

    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukitimah View Post
    Unfortunately, this is a true situation but nobody says you need to own a car. There is always public transport available.

    Malaysia didn't claim to be 1st world and you don't get buses to the villages. Remember, we are 1st world country.
    frankly at this age, are there anything you really need. do you need a tv at home? what if a tv cost 100k? is that also acceptable?

    people have certain standards of living which they aspire to. ultimately it is the government's job to keep people happy so they can win elections.

    for me, a car is essential to my lifestyle. if it remains so expensive.... i guess maybe others can do a better job

    and i am not alone. if you take the number of vehicles on the road, you can tell that a lot of singaporean households own a car. it is part of our living expenses. telling all these families with cars to switch to public transport.....
    Last edited by dniwkh; 22nd March 2014 at 02:33 PM.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Wolf View Post
    Honestly guys, you cannot compare singapore with big countries.

    There must be a form of control on the no. of vehicles on the road.

    I read that the poor do need their own form of transport as much as anyone else in ST forum.

    How do we actually determine that? Who doesn't have age parents or toddlers at some stage of their lives.

    LTA is seeking you opinion, come on give it to them if you think you can better them.

    I'm a pro gov, just my take on this.
    The answer is very simple. Just scrap the COE system. Charge on usage. What better way than to impose a LTA levy on fuel, on top of Govt tax?
    In this way, everyone can buy a car. So long as they have a place to park. Only those who are prepared to pay will drive the car. Keep the ERP gantries for traffic management. In this way, the car prices will appear 'affordable' in our first world country. And the younger generation can still aspire to own a car.

  19. #119
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LangLee View Post
    The answer is very simple. Just scrap the COE system. Charge on usage. What better way than to impose a LTA levy on fuel, on top of Govt tax? In this way, everyone can buy a car. So long as they have a place to park. Only those who are prepared to pay will drive the car. Keep the ERP gantries for traffic management. In this way, the car prices will appear 'affordable' in our first world country. And the younger generation can still aspire to own a car.
    That idea has been tried and abandoned. Those were the days of low COE when the government decided to increase quotas and build more gantries, night ERP etc. End up, the psychology was "heck, buy already don't use meh?"

  20. #120
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: LTA seeking feedback on COE

    My thinking is, if they can come up with a system to ballot for HDB, why can't they have a similar system to ballot for cars?

    But it will never happen. $$$$

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