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Thread: Taiwan vs Philippines

  1. #1
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Taiwan vs Philippines

    I was just watching Taiwanese news. Seems like the anti-Philippines sentiment there very high now. Will it escalate further?

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    Their president is making a big hoohaa because his ratings were horrible and he needed something to get the population on his side.
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    It will blow over... very much like N.K vs S.K+US....

    Both side need to save face... President Benigno Aquino was won the mid term election with better the expected result... his post is 'Safe'... President Mao Ying-jeou is facing serious issue at home... if he 'act' weak... give Oppositions bullets to shoot at him... President Mao Ying-jeou could ill afford to be seen as weak now...

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    The Phillipines Navy made a mistake. Why fire at a civilian fishing boat? This probably lay the ground for Taiwan to gain the upper hand in Scarborough Shoal dispute.

    Sometimes sorry seems to be the hardest word.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    The Phillipines Navy made a mistake. Why fire at a civilian fishing boat? This probably lay the ground for Taiwan to gain the upper hand in Scarborough Shoal dispute.

    Sometimes sorry seems to be the hardest word.
    it's not the first time fishing boat attack coast guard/navy.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    it's not the first time fishing boat attack coast guard/navy.

    "fishing boat attack coast guard/navy" ?
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Once I was attached to a certain foreign naval vessel as a contractor providing after service technical support for part of their upgrading program.

    Out in the South China Sea (SEA) somewhere at the 17th to 18th parallel, the bridge reported multiple unidentified surface contacts alongside and trailing at our wake over the 1MC. Turns out to be "fishing trawlers" filled with "fishing rods" from bow to stern from a particular nation, the Officer Of the Deck (OOD) subsequently imposed Emissions Control (EMCON) "Bravo" and "Alpha" status for a complete shipwide electronic and radio silence.

    At the mess, was discussing it with some of their Weapon Systems Officer (WEAPS) from the Combat Information Center (CIC) and they mentioned they saw "fisherman" with big white bazooka lenses aiming right down at us when they slew the EOs towards them.
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    The Phillipines Navy made a mistake. Why fire at a civilian fishing boat? This probably lay the ground for Taiwan to gain the upper hand in Scarborough Shoal dispute.

    Sometimes sorry seems to be the hardest word.
    The fishing boat turned and tried to ram the coast guard boat. The coast guard then fired warning shots, and when that didn't work, fired on the engine of the ship to disable it.

    This is the same any other country would do in the same situation when faced with what could be poachers who will do anything to escape prosecution.
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    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    The fishing boat turned and tried to ram the coast guard boat. The coast guard then fired warning shots, and when that didn't work, fired on the engine of the ship to disable it.

    This is the same any other country would do in the same situation when faced with what could be poachers who will do anything to escape prosecution.
    Got any first hand photographic or videographic evidence to support the allegation that the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram the Philipinoy patrol vessel? Otherwise it's just ones word against the other.

    Though they did say they chased the Taiwanese fishing boat for an hour after putting approximately 50 holes in it until they saw a “a big white ship” and start running away.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 16th May 2013 at 11:50 AM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Got any first hand photographic or videographic evidence to support the allegation that the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram the Philipinoy patrol vessel? Otherwise it's just ones word against the other.

    Though they did say they chased the Taiwanese fishing boat for an hour after putting approximately 50 holes in it until they saw a “a big white ship” and start running away.
    Well, that the ship tried to ram them is what the coast guard have said so far. They have a video of it, and it will be released once the NBI there have finished the investigation.
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Got any first hand photographic or videographic evidence to support the allegation that the Taiwanese fishing boat tried to ram the Philipinoy patrol vessel? Otherwise it's just ones word against the other.

    Though they did say they chased the Taiwanese fishing boat for an hour after putting approximately 50 holes in it until they saw a “a big white ship” and start running away.

    When I was in the S'pore Navy in the early to late 90s... our patrol boats are 'Armed' with a Nikon SLR with really large Telephoto lens and a Sony Video Cam... Camera is for intelligent gathering... taking photos of foreign Warship passing through the S'pore Straits... Video Cam is for situation like the current one.... where one side accuse the other of one thing or the other....

    While I know Philippines Navy isn't the most well "equided" Navy in S.E Asia... Video Cam isn't that expensive anymore... having and using one during the engagement could have solve alot of problem... Doesn't make killing the fisherman correct of course... but at least clear up any issue as to why they need to shoot at the 1st place...

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    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Got video also no use. Fishing boat can just claim "we were doing our feeble best to safeguard the sovereignty and territorial integrity of our country in our own waters, and a life was lost in the process." Hero!
    Last edited by UncleFai; 16th May 2013 at 12:33 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Taiwan stages maritime exercise to protect fishermen (update 3)

    2013/05/16 19:04:42

    Aboard Navy destroyer Ma Kong, May 16 (CNA) Navy and Coast Guard Administration (CGA) personnel conducted a joint drill Thursday in waters south of Taiwan to show the government's determination to protect Taiwanese fishermen operating there, following the recent killing of a Taiwanese fisherman by a Philippine government vessel.

    The drill, which came after the May 9 shooting that caused the fisherman's death, saw Navy and CGA personnel demonstrating cooperation in maritime rescue operations and their ability to protect Taiwan's fishing rights.

    Before the joint drill, the Ma Kong, a Kidd-class destroyer, also crossed the 20 degrees north latitude line, in waters near the location of the shooting. It was the first time the 10,500-ton warship had entered the area to assist the CGA in its efforts to protect Taiwanese fishermen, the Navy said.

    The CGA said it usually goes as far south as 20 degrees north to protect local fishing boats.

    That boundary may now change.

    Three military vessels -- the Ma Kong and two Lafayette-class frigates -- took part in the drill with the CGA vessels.

    The exercise included a simulation of an operation in which an S-70C rescue helicopter was dispatched from Taiwan to airlift a fisherman following a man overboard emergency.

    The drill also incorporated an anti-submarine S-70C helicopter from one of the frigates, which conducted a patrol mission.

    Meanwhile, two Mirage 2000-5 jet fighters were deployed from Hsinchu Airbase in northern Taiwan to take part in the exercise.

    The drill came amid escalating tension between Taiwan and the Philippines in the wake of the fatal shooting in waters where the exclusive economic zones of Taiwan and the Philippines overlap.

    The Navy said it has beefed up its protection of Taiwanese fishermen operating in the area by sending more frigates and expanding the area of their patrols.

    The CGA has also dispatched more vessels to patrol the area.

    The Kidd-class destroyer and one of the Lafayette-class frigates set sail Wednesday from Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan, to take part in the exercise.

    After the joint drill with the CGA, the destroyer went ahead with its own exercise later in the day, which included a simulated launch of two surface-to-air Standard Missile -2 missiles on board.

    The Navy's moves came one day after Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, in response to Taiwan’s demands, apologized to Taiwan over the shooting by a Philippine government vessel.

    The Navy rejected speculation that the drill had been scaled down following the Philippines’ apology.

    "The drill was not downsized," Wen Zhen-kuo, director-general of the Navy's Political Warfare Office told the local media. "It was carried out as planned."

    "The drill was held successfully," he added.

    The Navy has carried out many missions to protect Taiwanese fishing boats, but Thursday's drill was "particularly meaningful," said Capt. Peng Chiao-ming after the exercise.

    The soldiers and officials on the Kidd-class destroyer were all angered by the Philippines' attack on the Taiwanese fishing boat and felt honored to participate in the drill, an official on board said.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    The video and the weapon used in the shooting has been submitted by the Philippines Coast Guard (PCG) to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) for investigation.

    The PCG vessel was jointly manned by the Coast Guard and personnel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR).
    The BFAR and PCG crew of the MCS 3001 (a 35 metre long vessel) have been relieved of their posts as part of the standard operations procedure while the investigations are on-going.

    As the incident occurred in disputed waters, the exact position of the Taiwanese fishing boat named Guang Ta Hsin-28, at the time of the shooting needs to be determined. The Guang Ta Hsin-28 had a crew of about 4 or 5.

    The Philippine Coast Guard initially denied the event, stating that they had no ship in the vicinity. On May 10, Philippines admitted that a Taiwanese fisherman had been killed. Philippines claimed that the fishing vessel had attempted to ram the coast guard cutter.

    The Guang Ta Hsin-28 is a small 15 ton fishing boat.
    The 35 metre long PCG vessel is probably an Ilocos Norte-class patrol boat with a displacement of 120 tons.

    If a small little boat tried to ram a much bigger navy vessel, it would not have been able to do any damage.
    Like a bicyclist trying to ram a 3-tonner truck.
    So even if the Guang Ta Hsin-28 had tried to ram the MCS 3001, the latter was never in any danger.
    I leave it to you to decide whether the story is credible and the PCG's reason to kill is acceptable.

    The PCG said they shot the Guang Ta Hsin-28 in self defense and accidentally killed the fisherman.

    The PCG MCS 3001 chased the unarmed Guang Ta Hsin-28 for more than an hour in the sea and fired more than 50 machine gun/canon shots, killing one fisherman. The machine gun/canon on board Coast Guard vessels fire much larger calibre ammunition than small hand gun 9mm bullets or AR-15 rifle 5.56 ball rounds. I guess at least 12.7mm calibre.

    I cannot imagine how self-defense claim is legitimate or even sensible, when it was the PCG MCS 3001 that was firing 50 machine gun/canon shots at the much smaller fishing boat; and chased it in the sea for more than one hour.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 16th May 2013 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    This is turning into another China-Japan WW2 apology case...

    They will keep demanding for an apology... But no matter how many times or how many ways Philippines or Japan will apologise to Taiwan or China.. They will always say it's "unacceptable", or "not enough", or "not sincere"... Then keep bringing the incident up over and over again, and keep acting like a victim...

    There has to be a point where the world has to step in and say "enough is enough, move on"...

    These are supposed to be led by mature old men... But they're all behaving like a kindergarten/primary school children in the midst of a "T'cher, he beat me first" incident...
    Last edited by GeneKoh; 16th May 2013 at 07:48 PM.
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  16. #16

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    If you guys follow TVBS Taiwanese news, the shots which were aimed at, it's like wanting the captain dead..

    There are also no signs of damaged from the fisher boat.. Hence any act of ramping the naval vessel is not valid.

    Well... That is Taiwanese news......

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    Sad isn't it? While politics are being fought without any solution, innocence fisherman earning a living dies for no reason. He probably has been fishing around the same place off years but now suddenly he is shot.

    Hope when we go and shoot photographs between borders this will not happen.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    The fishing boat turned and tried to ram the coast guard boat. The coast guard then fired warning shots, and when that didn't work, fired on the engine of the ship to disable it.

    This is the same any other country would do in the same situation when faced with what could be poachers who will do anything to escape prosecution.

    The Phillipine version of event has as many holes as the number of bullets fired. Judging from the (only) photo at ABC news website, a bullet hole was found on the side of the fishing vessel. If the fishing vessel had indeed wanted to ram the coast guard vessel, the bullet hole would be found on the front of the boat and no on the side.

    This is a fishing boat and there is no way to disable the engine by firing a machine gun at it. The engine is housed in the engine room and for most part is below the waterline so that the propeller is under water. Even if the bullet did penetrate the hull it would still not disable the engine. The method you suggested applies to boat with outboard engine where you can shoot to disable..

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines




    This is originally not a territorial row. It is probably an extortion racket that has gone horribly wrong for the Philippines Coast Guard.

    Just some low level corruption by the PCG. Unfortunately, some member of the PCG crew was trigger happy and got them into this mess.

    PRC will benefit if the matter escalates into a limited war between Taiwan and Philippines.
    PRC will stand by Taiwan to show its solidarity and win the affection of Taiwanese for the mainland.

    USA got a headache. Both Taiwan and Philippines are the countries it has close ties with.
    USA cannot side with either one.

    My take of this incident is that it was probably an attempt by the PCG to board the Taiwanese fishing boat, "arrest" the captain of the boat and thus extort a bit of money on the spot before they release him.

    Such incidents are common.

    Taiwan Police Links Philippine Navy To Extortion Racket - The Mindanao Examiner

    Corruption, not territorial rows, behind Philippine fishing shooting - OP-ED - Globaltimes.cn

    Quote from this:

    Body of Fisherman Killed by Philippine Coast Guard Back to Taiwan

    Local fishermen said they had long suffered harassment from the Philippine duty vessels. According to Hung's neighbors, local fishing ships are occasionally detained by the Philippines and a large number of ransom is demanded.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 18th May 2013 at 12:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Taiwan vs Philippines

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    The Philippine Coast Guard initially denied the event, stating that they had no ship in the vicinity. On May 10, Philippines admitted that a Taiwanese fisherman had been killed. Philippines claimed that the fishing vessel had attempted to ram the coast guard cutter.
    ...
    The 35 metre long PCG vessel is probably an Ilocos Norte-class patrol boat with a displacement of 120 tons.
    It was the Phil Navy who denied it. The Phil Coast Guard later then admitted involvement.

    This is how the Coast Guard Vessel that was involved in the incident look like:



    I'm not sure if that's what you would classify as a cutter or its displacement is at 120tons.

    The loss of life was regrettable and I do believe that the PCG crew should be punished if proven that they have violated rules of engagement.

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